ghYHZ Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Looks like Industrial Rail Services in Moncton has won the contract to refurbish VIA's LRC fleet. A press conference is scheduled for tomorrow (May 4) http://nbbusinessjournal.canadaeast.com/front/article/654246 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Looks like Industrial Rail Services in Moncton has won the contract to refurbish VIA's LRC fleet. A press conference is scheduled for tomorrow (May 4)http://nbbusinessjournal.canadaeast.com/front/article/654246 Heard the first cars are already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zouloukistan Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Yay! I don't really love the LRC cars as they are now, despite that in theory they're better. I much prefer Renaissance cars, at least on the corridor's short travels. Hopefully these new LRC be more comfy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Yay! I don't really love the LRC cars as they are now, despite that in theory they're better. I much prefer Renaissance cars, at least on the corridor's short travels. Hopefully these new LRC be more comfy. Having ridden LRC, ex CPR Budds, ex US Budds, EM coaches, and the Ren stock I have to say that the Ren is my least favourite. The EM coaches were atmospheric. I even had lunch in a VIA Tempo car in the late 1990s, that was a cool experience too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyA Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I got a press release from VIA today: MONCTON, May 4, 2009 - The overhaul of nearly one-quarter of VIA Rail Canada's passenger car fleet and important accessibility improvements to 12 of its newest trainsets were announced today by Canada's Minister of State for Transport, Rob Merrifield, VIA President and CEO Paul Côté and Richard Carpenter, President of Industrial Rail Services, Inc. (IRSI) of Moncton."This government's support of VIA Rail, through the Economic Action Plan, will create skilled jobs and stimulate the economy across Canada," said Minister of State Merrifield. "We are pleased to be taking action that will provide faster, more frequent, more reliable passenger rail service across Canada." The Light, Rapid and Comfortable (LRC) fleet overhaul, a $98.9 million contract, will fully renew all 98 of VIA's Canadian-built cars. The overhaul will not only renew them for up to 20 additional years of fast, comfortable and reliable service, but also reduce their energy requirements by up to 20 per cent, making them more cost-effective and reducing their already-low environmental footprint. The $5.8 million Renaissance rolling stock contract will upgrade 21 cars in the 106-car fleet to offer new levels of accessibility for travelers with special requirements on many trains in the Quebec-Toronto segment of VIA's main corridor and on its overnight Montreal-Halifax Ocean. "I want to thank the Government of Canada for its recognition of the potential of passenger rail through these substantial and cost-effective investments in VIA's fleet," said Mr. Côté. "It is an investment that not only stimulates the economy, but responds to the clear indications that Canadians want and will support more and better passenger rail service. As the custodians of that transportation service, the people of VIA are proud to make these improvements on their behalf." The two contracts awarded to IRSI will create 135 new jobs and 613,000 person hours of employment at IRSI, as well as 50 additional jobs at associated companies and suppliers. The projects are part of an unprecedented investment in passenger rail modernization and expansion by the Government of Canada. Richard Carpenter, President of IRSI, said, "I can think of no better way for us to be celebrating the 10th anniversary of our company and our long association with VIA. The people of Moncton and all of our highly-skilled employees will take great pride in contributing to the physical renewal of a form of travel that is obviously the smart, safe and sustainable alternative today." -30- The e-mail also included links to http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/click?fu=684...8&fp=439796 and http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/click?fu=684...8&fp=439796 , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I got a press release from VIA today:The e-mail also included links to http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/click?fu=684...8&fp=439796 and http://www.viarail.ca/cgi-bin/click?fu=684...8&fp=439796 , Any photo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyA Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Any photo's? I saw some images created on a computer of what the new cars are supposed to look like, in a leaflet that was distributed to media...I'll see if I can scan them sometime tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Considering that they are rebuilding them from the rails up (and removing the banking), it's a shame that they can't throw the ex-Amtrak cars in there and get them done at the same time. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollsign29 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Considering that they are rebuilding them from the rails up (and removing the banking), it's a shame that they can't throw the ex-Amtrak cars in there and get them done at the same time.Dan That's too bad that the banking system will be removed, but truthfully, it's definately the right move by reducing the weight and operating costs! Oh well, they were still the first tilting passenger cars in North America (that weren't part of a fixed train) and helped to develop other tilting systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Oh well, they were still the first tilting passenger cars in North America (that weren't part of a fixed train) and helped to develop other tilting systems. Nope, they weren't. Pullman-Standard built three cars in the late 1930s, one each for the Burlington, Santa Fe and SP (if I remember correctly) that had a pendulum-based banking system, much like that on the Turbo or the Talgo. For a variety of different reasons, all of the cars were retired and scrapped by the late 1950s. I think the best thing that can be said about the LRC's is that they were the first mass-produced banked cars in North America, the first with an active tilt suspension system, and thus far the longest lived. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Considering that they are rebuilding them from the rails up (and removing the banking), it's a shame that they can't throw the ex-Amtrak cars in there and get them done at the same time.Dan I've been thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyA Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Why would they remove the banking system? If anything, they should be adding a banking system to the Ren cars that don't have one! Banking systems allow trains to go faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Why would they remove the banking system? If anything, they should be adding a banking system to the Ren cars that don't have one! Banking systems allow trains to go faster... Because the Ren cars were never designed to have one. It would be cost prohibitive to rebuild them to include one. The Ren cars are based on the British Rail Mark IV design, which although was built with the profile of a tilting train was never designed to tilt either. British Rail lost interest in tiliting trains after the Advanced Passenger Train (APT) fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Why would they remove the banking system? If anything, they should be adding a banking system to the Ren cars that don't have one! Banking systems allow trains to go faster... Because the banking system is a pain in the arse to maintain. There is no physical reason for having banking, other than to reduce the side loading on the passengers in curves - which can be overcome with higher superelevation. Banking has absolutely zero effect on the track structure. Because the Ren cars were never designed to have one. It would be cost prohibitive to rebuild them to include one.The Ren cars are based on the British Rail Mark IV design, which although was built with the profile of a tilting train was never designed to tilt either. British Rail lost interest in tiliting trains after the Advanced Passenger Train (APT) fiasco. Okay, I'm a bit confused here.... I have been told that the Ren cars are not in fact based on the Mark IV cars, but rather on the later BREL-designed DMU's. They were never designed to be retrofitted with banking. However, that same source did say that the Mark IV cars were in fact designed to be retrofitted with a tilt system should they be used on the IC225 fleet. By the way John, that source is David Jeanes - is it possible that he was mistaken? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Okay, I'm a bit confused here....I have been told that the Ren cars are not in fact based on the Mark IV cars, but rather on the later BREL-designed DMU's. They were never designed to be retrofitted with banking. However, that same source did say that the Mark IV cars were in fact designed to be retrofitted with a tilt system should they be used on the IC225 fleet. By the way John, that source is David Jeanes - is it possible that he was mistaken? Dan The DMUs and EMUs from the late 1980s early 1990s are based on the Mark III body, either shortened or long. The body profile for the Mark III is drastically different from the Mark IV, which has a profile that would accomodate tiliting, but as far as I know there were, or are no, plans to implement this. The Nightstar stock was based on the Mark IV as that was the coaching standard at the time. BTW the Mark IV cars are the IC225 fleet, together with the class 91 and Mark IV DVT (one at either end). The reason why they were called the IC225 fleet is as follows. The original class 43 HST power cars and Mark III trailer cars were called IC125 as they did 125mph. For the Mark IVs and class 91 they did 140mph, which is approximately 225 kmh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 The DMUs and EMUs from the late 1980s early 1990s are based on the Mark III body, either shortened or long. The body profile for the Mark III is drastically different from the Mark IV, which has a profile that would accomodate tiliting, but as far as I know there were, or are no, plans to implement this. The Nightstar stock was based on the Mark IV as that was the coaching standard at the time.BTW the Mark IV cars are the IC225 fleet, together with the class 91 and Mark IV DVT (one at either end). The reason why they were called the IC225 fleet is as follows. The original class 43 HST power cars and Mark III trailer cars were called IC125 as they did 125mph. For the Mark IVs and class 91 they did 140mph, which is approximately 225 kmh. Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up John. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRC3 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Detailed documentation about the LRC rebuilds and also mods to 21 Ren cars can be found here: http://ourcompany.viarail.ca/en/about-via-.../passenger-cars All in all a very cool upgrade I think. However, I downloaded a PDF with renderings of the VIA 1 and coach cars and find the makeover of the VIA 1 exterior to be a bit extreme and visually disconcerting. I'm up for reconceptualization of the paint scheme, to be more aligned with the colours introduced by the renaissance fleet, and carried on with the P42 and now F40 rebuilds, but what they are proposing for the VIA 1 car looks unfinished and moves off in yet another design direction. It will also create more mismatches in the trainsets. I already despise how the colours invert back and forth on the renaissance cars, especially not matching the "baggage car" (sleeper shell) to either the locomotive infront of it or the coach behind it, and then theres the ugly misplaced transition scheme on the mid-train service car. Its starting to look like rainbow era amtrak, and yet VIA is 32 years old and should have no such unprofessional kinks in their visuals at this point! I wonder what they'll do to the HEP1 trains? Paint that blue stripe dark green? or just keep that component of the fleet completely different from everything else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyA Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I have to agree with you LRC3 about the paint schemes on the Ren cars...it's always driven me crazy how the cars don't all match! I find one of the strangest things about all this refurbishment, is how it coincides with an overhaul of the naming of their services. They have eliminated all the names of their trains, except the Ocean and Canadian (i.e. The Chaleur, Skeena, Hudson Bay, Malahat, Lake Superior, and Saguenay will all be simply referred to by their termini, so The Chaleur will now simply be called the "Montreal-Gaspe"). They are also in the process of eliminating all the names of service classes. So, Comfort class and VIA1, will now simply be Economy and Business class. All their special tourist classes, ilke "Easterly class" on the Ocean, and "Totem class" on the (former) Skeena, will now be referred to as something along the lines of "Touring class". Personally I will keep on calling things by their proper name, just like I still use the terms "roomette", "section", "bedroom" and "drawing room", in stead of single bedroom, double bedroom, triple bedroom, etc. Going back to the design of the new cars, I saw an LRC prototype at VIA's maintenance centre in Montreal that had all the seats with dark pink fabric. I don't see that in any of the photos, so I guess they decided against it in the end. Hm, I almost forgot that before they were put into service on the Ocean, the Ren cars were being used on the Enterprise Montreal-Toronto overnight train! http://web.archive.org/web/20040618055001/..._onta_tomo.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRC3 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Regarding the renaissance, all VIA did was slap their reflective yellow stripe and a few logo's on over top of the existing paint. If the nightstars had been used in the setup envisaged by the original designers, the light top coach cars would all be together, then the transitional service car, and then a string of dark top sleeping cars. At least it would make sortof sense. Its a shame they are doing away with more names! At one time all the corridor trains had names too! LaSalle, York, General Brock and Simcoe being just a few I can recall off hand. Does it cost them more money to uphold a simple railway tradition like that?? Meanwhile they're so proud to label which departures are renaissance on the departure board at Central Station. I don't necessarily have an issue taking away the name of Easterly Class. Its was worthy when the train was always a HEP1 consist, but somewhat un-deserving now that most of the Ocean services use Renaissance equipment. Tacking a park car on the end during the summer doesn't quite cut it. Re the dark pink LRC interior: I actually saw a HEP2 car done up that way, in a train on an adjacent platform at Union station on a recent trip to Toronto. A couple hours into my trip, I gleaned the destinations magazine and some of the promo photos at the back showed this interior, so I was also surprised to see the presentation photos which go in a different design direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Regarding the renaissance, all VIA did was slap their reflective yellow stripe and a few logo's on over top of the existing paint. If the nightstars had been used in the setup envisaged by the original designers, the light top coach cars would all be together, then the transitional service car, and then a string of dark top sleeping cars. At least it would make sortof sense. The reason why VIA just "slapped" the reflective yellow striping on the cars is because the paint warranty was still valid for the cars, and VIA didn't want to bother paying for a new paint job when the existing one was in good shape. In 10 years when the paint becomes a little more tattered is when we'll see what VIA has in mind. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyA Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Its a shame they are doing away with more names! At one time all the corridor trains had names too! LaSalle, York, General Brock and Simcoe being just a few I can recall off hand. Does it cost them more money to uphold a simple railway tradition like that?? Meanwhile they're so proud to label which departures are renaissance on the departure board at Central Station. It was mainly the marketing department that had to do with eliminating the names. They said that the train names were too hard for people to remember, and that the class names were too "elitist". Personally if I'm going to pay the $x extra for first class...I want to feel elite! And I actually think Business class sounds more elite, because it's implying that it's so expensive only those travelling on business can afford it! I don't necessarily have an issue taking away the name of Easterly Class. Its was worthy when the train was always a HEP1 consist, but somewhat un-deserving now that most of the Ocean services use Renaissance equipment. Tacking a park car on the end during the summer doesn't quite cut it. Easterly class will still be around, it just won't be called that anymore. They will still have the "learning co-ordinator" in the Park car playing with the lobster trap. I see what you're saying about the use of Ren equipment; during the summer months (in "touring" class) they should add a couple of HEP1 sleeping cars and dining car. Then the Baggage Transition car would serve as seperation between "economy" and "touring" class passengers, espcially since now they sell some bedrooms without the learning/meal component included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2044 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I like the current proposed interior scheme for the LRCs, as the beige and green is starting to look dated. I'd like to see passenger air vents above the seats added too. I think this exterior scheme fits best with the locomotive scheme, but I do like the Nightstar scheme on the Ren cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollsign29 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I can imagine that if and when a colour change/overhaul comes of the Budd cars, the only thing that will change on the exterior is changine the two-tone (and sometimes single-tone) stripe over the windows to either be teal or teal/yellow. Otherwise, don't expect any paint over the stainless steel (otherwise known as "railway murder") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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