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ghYHZ

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  1. I notice the flat sides of the power cars do not match the contours of the following passenger cars.
  2. The intent it seems is to have reversible seats. Here's a quote in the Moncton Times & Transcript from a VIA Press Release: ”The solution involves using a 'hybrid' train that includes locomotives equipped with features allowing for back-to-back operations, so the trains don't need to turn around” ”Passenger cars used will have seats that can turn to align with the direction of travel to “ensure optimal comfort for passengers” When I rode the Ocean in March just before the service was cancelled they were already using a 'Hybrid' type train on one of the two consists (the other was all Ren except for the Park). It had the Budd Stainless Steel coaches which have reversible seats. There were no Renaissance coaches and in fact the only seats on the train that weren't reversible were the 24 dome seats in the Park Car and the 'Cabins for One' (Duplex Roomettes) in the Chateau Sleepers. There were also a couple of Renaissance Sleepers being used and those Bedrooms are already set up so half the rooms face the direction of travel and half face away. Yes....just leave the Park Car off but if there is any intent to market the Ocean to tourists other than a point to point coach/sleeper corridor type train....it needs a 'Signature' or 'Feature' type car and this could be accomplished (as noted above) by replacing the existing seating with 24 reversible seats in a Skyline Dome. A Skyline could also provide meal service in the off-season instead of a full diner.....just like the CP Rail Skyline did for years on the Atlantic Limited. The kitchen is still there. >>>>>>> The Ocean was inaugurated in 1904 and for it's first 80 years it only had a run-of-the-mill Lounge Car. The first Domes or Park Cars weren't used until 1984.....after VIA obtained them from CP Rail. For a couple of years in the '60s....the Ocean did have a 'feature' type car.....an exMilwaukee Road 'Skyvtop' but they didn't last long in service. Here they are in the dead-line at Halifax awaiting disposal in the '70s:
  3. If they keep the 'Park Car'....the rounded end observation would be facing into the locomotive in one direction. A 'Skyline Dome' could be used instead......and the existing seats replaced with reversible type seats (flip over backs) similar to these: https://soul-amp.blogspot.com/2007/11/metra-train-reversible-chairs.html This is how CP Rail did it on the Atlantic Limited. The Skyline Dome was not turned in Saint John, New Brunswick.
  4. You would need cables thru the cars.....so dedicated cars required. Easier to just have the locomotives back to back and run them around the train to the opposite end.
  5. I believe the plan would be to have the locomotives back to back and just run them around the train to the opposite end in Halifax.
  6. No need....looks like VIA has already decided to reconfigure the consist for bidirectional operation. Probably the most cost efficient.
  7. Yes.....here's the TSB Report: https://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/1999/r99s0100/r99s0100.html
  8. The only other jointly operated VIA train I can think of was the International between Toronto and Chicago. For a number of years both Amtrak and VIA provided locomotives and cars. You could find VIA LRC's and Tempo's in Chicago and Amtrak Bi-levels in Toronto. There was also the Niagara Rainbow.....an over night train between New York and Toronto that ran on weekends only for a couple of years around 1994/95. But unlike the Maple Leaf...which uses Amtrak equipment......the Amtrak cars were attached to a VIA train between Niagara Falls ON and Toronto.
  9. The jointly operated overnight VIA/ON Northland was discontinued with the big VIA cuts in January 1990 leaving only the daytime Northlander......and as before it was entirely an Ontario Northland operation. No VIA involvement. In April 1989 the northern endpoint had been changed from Timmins to Cochrane .....and the exTEE trains were replaced by rebuilt exGO single-level cars in 1992. (below at Huntsville on CN in Oct 2007) The Northlander lasted until 2012 when it was replaced by an ON operated bus service.
  10. Money!! Just guessing here......The exTEE trains were available at a good price. It was only the cab car at one end that didn't meet Transport Canada requirements....and doing a loop through Union Station didn't really pose any problems. (Barrie did get service only one way though!)
  11. Trains 98 & 99....the overnight Northland between Toronto and Kapuskasing were jointly operated by VIA-CN and Ontario Northland and used locomotives and cars supplied by both railways. Train 99 departed from Toronto as a VIA-CN train. At North Bay it became an ONR train and then at Cochrane....a VIA-CN train again for the remainder of the run to Kapuskasing. Train 98 was the same southbound. Trains 96/97 and 673/674 between Toronto and North Bay were operated by VIA-CN. No Ontario Nothland involvement. In the timetable heading 673/674 have the symbol for Budd RDC 'Railiner' equipment. In Table 45.....Trains 421 & 622 are connecting Ontario Northland trains between Cochrane and Mooseonee.....not VIA-CN. If you look at Table 45 you will see (Ontario Northland) in brackets. I rode the Northland two years earlier. Here’s the consist arriving in Toronto on Nov. 10, 1974: 1500 ON FP7A (green & yellow paint) 6791 CN FPA4 (red, black & white paint) 410 ON Baggage (green) 1190 CN Sleeper (6-6-4) "Green Gables "xBangor & Aroostook "North Twin Lake" (stainless steel) 821 ON Coach (xCPR) (green) 4885 CN Grill-Lounge (xGTW) (black & white) 810 ON Coach (green) 2091 CN Sleeper (10-6) "Skeena River" (black & white) 2100 CN Sleeper (14-4) "Horseshoe Falls" (black & white) -Train originated in Kapuskasing on CN with 6791, 410, 1190 & 821. -At Cochrane ONR took over and 4885 was added. -810 & sleeper 2091 thru from Timmins were added at Porquis Jct. -1500 & sleeper 2100 thru from Noranda were added at Englehart. Now going forward to June 1977 when Ontario Nothland Railway put the exTEE trains into service as the Northlander. (note the er) They operated between Toronto and Timmins originally....not to Cochrane. Even on CN tracks between Toronto and North Bay they were entirely an Ontario Northland operation...no VIA involvement. The exTEE trains had a Locomotive at one end and a Cab Car at the other (Pull-Push like a GO Train) and the plan was for the engineer to just change ends at Toronto Union Station without having to turn the train. Transport Canada (the CTC then) wouldn't allow this as the Cab Cars didn't have the required strength to lead in case of a collision. Now ONR sent the trains down one side of Lake Simcoe using the Newmarket Subdivision via Berrie.....then just looping through Union Station and continuing north up the other side of Lake Simcoe on the Bala Subdivision to Washago where the lines joined. Here's the Ontario Northland Timetable for January 31, 1978 And a page from the VIA Timetable for October 29, 1978.....and note at the top of the page that trains 121 and 122 are ONR trains even when on CN between Toronto and North Bay. No VIA involvement Trains 98 and 99 are still a joint VIA and ONR operation. (Note the little map at the top of the station column showing the lines looping around Lake Simcoe) The exTEE Locomotives were getting old and were eventually replaced with ONR F units. Here's a photo I took at North Bay in Jan 1983
  12. Originally known as The Canadian Rockies by Daylight And then VIA's Rocky Mountaineer...…...
  13. Agreed.....not insurmountable at all. And those flip-over reversible seats might not be too difficult to procure. You'd need 12 per Skyline Dome and METRA in Chicago is replacing that type ...... https://soul-amp.blogspot.com/2007/11/metra-train-reversible-chairs.html ......with new fixed seating. And you might not have to look any further than those old AMT-EXO xCP Vickers Double-Decks (Gallery) sitting in Point St Charles......they had similar seating. The seats CP used in the Atlantic Skyline came from old commuter coaches.
  14. It's 110 km from Truro to Halifax but still only a small portion of the 1350 overall run where you would be looking into the loco from the Park. Or replace the Park with a Skyline with flip-over seats like CP did on the original Atlantic Ltd when they didn't turn the train in Saint John.
  15. Shouldn't be a problem.....the locomotives could run around the train and lead for the 65 miles (110 km) between Truro and Halifax. Every time the w/b Ocean runs over to Sainte-Foy it has to back up for six km to return to the CN mainline on the south shore......then passes through the east quadrant of the Wye between Charny and Joffre Yard before continuing onto Montreal. Here's a crew member sitting at the rear of the Park Car for the back-up across the Quebec Bridge.....then taking the east leg of the wye at Charny......
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