The Official Laval Metro Extension Thread

[mtltransitguy]

Yes it is. A lot of washrooms, especially at Petro-Canada station have that feature.

Good ol Petro!

I love that they have the ones with A&W (my fav burger), coincidentally placed close to important transit locations;

• Sauve and L'Acadie
• H-B Metro
• Park and Mount-Royal
• De Maisonneuve and de Lorimier
• Sherbrooke and St-Jean-Baptiste
• Cousineau and Moïse-Vincent in St-Hubert
• de la Concorde and Vanier in St-François, Laval

Great place to catch a good bite to eat while waiting for your connection!

[gmnewlook]

Good ol Petro!

I love that they have the ones with A&W (my fav burger), coincidentally placed close to important transit locations;

• Sauve and L'Acadie
• H-B Metro
• Park and Mount-Royal
• Any others I am missing?

Great place to catch a good bite to eat while waiting for your connection!

• de Maisonneuve and de Lorimier
• Sherbrooke and St-Jean-Baptiste
• Cousineau and Moïse-Vincent in St-Hubert
• de la Concorde and Vanier in St-François, Laval

[mtltransitguy]

• de Maisonneuve and de Lorimier
• Sherbrooke and St-Jean-Baptiste
• Cousineau and Moïse-Vincent in St-Hubert
• de la Concorde and Vanier in St-François, Laval

That's right!

[Matt Demers]

It was a Last minute decision due to very "large" amount of people all wanting to go to Carrefour Laval. So the bus routes going there wasn't enough so they started running this shuttle. I rode it to CL yesterday but i rode the 42 back because the SHUTTLE wasnt going to Monty on the way back anymore due to severe overcrowding but i wanted to go there so i ran for the 42 which i knew had to go there overcrowding or not.

the Carrefour Laval shuttles was definitly organized by STL CO's last minute when they realized it would be needed. Saturday had major lines for all the routes going there but by Sunday it was insane and alot of people all had the same idea of wanting to go shopping there so it was even worse! That's why there were shuttles and that's why it was pretty much 99-100% classics!

Besides the "Navette Metro" destinations i also saw many "Express" on the luminator and that's all it said...

Ah thanks, I kind of regret not taking it now though..they had 61s on it!

Yes it is. A lot of washrooms, especially at Petro-Canada station have that feature.

Ah, thanks to you as well. Now I know.

[David D.]

Ah thanks, I kind of regret not taking it now though..they had 61s on it!

Ah, thanks to you as well. Now I know.

But really it's quite useless unless its the whole bathroom. Stalls only arent enought cause light is coming from the sinks area etc.. But i guess they figured they wanted to make them just a little bit more inviting to other people. Not everyone who uses them has the intention of shooting up in there LOL.

I'm actually surprised the washrooms have doors! I thought they would go the longueuil metro way and NOT put doors so u can see what's going on inside.

[rocketdriver2019]

I suspect that this has something to do with the collective agreement...

Given that the one that just lapsed still had Bourassa as terminus, the new arrangement must be for operators to have the usual i.e. old Vertu-Bourassa run, while another batch of operators undertake the short new Laval segment.

This is all speculation, but I think that it is a good theory.

Actually I think it may have more to do with board period changes. If I'm not mistaken, a change in board period did not take place this past Saturday, so operators who signed work on the Orange Line would have had to go only from Henri-Bourassa to Cote-Vertu in order for their work schedules not to be disrupted. I expect the operators staffing the Laval portion were likely on spareboard, or whatever it's called in Montreal. I wouldn't be surprised if after the next period starts you'll be seeing the same driver stay on the train all the way to Montmorency.

This is all speculation on my part too, of course.

It was good meeting some of you guys this past weekend... I had a blast riding the first train! And of course, because I know some people are dying to see it... here are the vids I took of the "arriere gare", as you guys call it, at Montmorency...

[SMS]

Interesting news:

I saw as many as 3 MR-63s in operation on the orange line today during PM rush. I'm not just saying that. I rode the line from Montmorency to Namur today, so I know what I saw.

In fact I took a Monty-bound MR-63 from Cremazie. I cannot say anything bad about that experience. If you like the shrieking sound of that metro and love rolling 72 km/h in our longest interstation under land.... waiting for a old Vickers set is well worth your time. It is slightly different from the MR73 experience. I love the rich sound of the 73s and it's excellent acceleration and deceleration but boy, having the 63s go to Laval... even Jean Drapeau never saw the day! So yes it's very possible. The pancarte tends to be at the bottom of the windshield resting on the drivers controls. In short - RIDE IT. It is a very different experience.

Comments on Metro in Laval during pm rush: Lots of people on board! So many people getting off at Cartier and Montmorency (better unloading and evacuation of the station compared to crap like Cote-Vertu). This all used to be people who got off at Bourassa and walked the long corridors to Terminus Laval! Amazing!

Stations were sure deserted compared to the weekend! Wasn't thrilled with the headways... I know that there was a slowdown, but I waited 12 mins for a train at Concorde to Monty... not cool! I saw STM staff at all Laval turnstiles, probably informing people about fares. In metros, the operators announce where they are going and there are still no automatic announcements or Telecite support. Metrovision at Berri-UQAM still displays Henri-Bourassa. Original signage is still up except on the platforms of Sauve and Mont-Royal as far as I can tell.

What else... don't take more than one transfer. Surveillance agents bitched me out and threatened to fine me. Then they told me not to take the elevator but take the stairs instead. What a bunch of f*king Nazis!

I've saved the best for last. STM is following TTC terminal procedures at Montmorency!!! In short, in the avant-gare, we use the X switch and cross over to the Cote-Vertu platform! No going to the avant-gare to switch and wasting precious time! I did this in an MR 63 first and the lights went off! Keep in mind that passengers are normally never allowed to ride a switch! This was last done from May to August 2004 when trains went on Track 2 from Cremazie to Sauve. So the quai de debarquement was not used at all! (In the rear station I saw two employees taking a walk down the tracks). The tail tracks were empty. Maybe they do this to keep access to the garage free, but it is ingenious and fun! In an MR 73 BTW there is no lights dimming as bad as in a 63 at least.

Also I find that Monty bound trains at Concorde wait at Concorde until the train to Cote-Vertu arrives in station before proceeding, given the headways that the STM wishes to maintain (more or less 6 mins in Laval).

[downbeat]

Keep in mind that passengers are normally never allowed to ride a switch! This was last done from May to August 2004 when trains went on Track 2 from Cremazie to Sauve.

What about when trains to Laval split off onto the third platform at H-B? Isn't the train going through a switch there, too?

[SMS]

Yes you're right - albeit quite slowly and not as fast as we were led to believe.

[Tranzit]

(Quote) Wasn't thrilled with the headways... I know that there was a slowdown, but I waited 12 mins for a train at Concorde to Monty (Unquote)

Just as I predicted few weeks back, so no surprise there. Hopefully, they'll get their ass in gear and reduce such delays soon.

As far as "riding the switch": would there be a fine if someone was caught remaining on the Metro beyond a terminal station? What about a drunk or anyone who innocently overslept? Isn't there always an STM employee checking up to make sure no one is still onboard, or is that merely done on a random basis?

[SMS]

When I went on a tour of Garage St-Charles in 2003 or 2004, there was a guy asleep at Henri-Bourassa on the Cote-Vertu train parked overnight on Track 1. The STM tour guide just called the police and let them deal with it. The guy was booted out of the station.

At Montmorency I think Greg Dave and I saw a guy who was asleep on the metro arriving at the new Laval terminus on Saturday and all the COs/CTs did was bang on the window to wake him up. At that point in the day, no one was allowed in the tail tracks.

[David D.]

(Quote) Wasn't thrilled with the headways... I know that there was a slowdown, but I waited 12 mins for a train at Concorde to Monty (Unquote)

Just as I predicted few weeks back, so no surprise there. Hopefully, they'll get their ass in gear and reduce such delays soon.

U guys should give them a break! There was two seperate incidents on the line that caused complete interruptions! I find it completely unfair to complain about a 12min headway at rush hour in laval when the line was having "other" problems. Get real. U should be glad it was only 12mins! One of my friends had to wait 25mins for the service to come back in the downtown section of the line!

As far as "riding the switch": would there be a fine if someone was caught remaining on the Metro beyond a terminal station? What about a drunk or anyone who innocently overslept? Isn't there always an STM employee checking up to make sure no one is still onboard, or is that merely done on a random basis?

No. It is ONLY done when the train is going out of service at the terminus to be parked into the garage. Otherwise they dont go out of their way to make sure everyone is off the train. It's no big deal to the STM if someone fell asleep etc etc if the train is merely switching and not going out of service.

I don't know where people got the idea that passengers being able to ride a switch is the ultimate NO NO at the STM. Obviously it is a uncommon thing but it happens whenever the switch in the arriere-gare isnt working. In which case passengers board on the disembarking platform and ride the switch in the Avant-Gare. I've done it at Henri-Bourassa, Honore-Beaugrand, Angrignon and Cote-Vertu.

The switch to the 3rd platform at HB is a high speed switch, this is what was told to myself and others during our couple of tours previous to the opening. Suffice to say that there is nothing to force the STM to actually switch at high speeds, they might very well have programmed the ATO (when its fixed in that section) and the CM to limit the speed and slow down just before the switch. Please remember that we do not believe every metro operator has even ran in laval as of yet. So in time when every driver has done a laval run, when telecite finally programs their thing, etc etc. things may change! What we see now doesn't necessarly mean this is how it will always be!!

I can't understand while people would think that the train will always wait long at HB new plat before continuing on to laval. That doesn't make much sense if there's a clear signal. Right now the drivers appear to be switching at HB but what would make one think that would always be the case?

Also there is no surprise that some trains are switching at Montmorency in the Avant-Gare upon arriving to the terminus in order to save time since that was also mentionned by the AMT a couple of years ago on the laval metro tour that was open to the public (laval public, but they didn't care if u were a Montrealer, it was just to limit visits in fear of what we saw this weekend! IE 165,000 people!)

Now "high speed" means high speed. I don't know if it was mentionned at the time if that meant 72km/h or what. But what it means is much faster than the "usual" speed during a switch. Anyone who looks at the switch can see that it is a long switch, which is also why non of the cars lose lighting, ventilation or power during the switch to the 3rd platform. Whereas everywhere else u do! Although i don't know about the MR63's since they like to lose power even easier than the MR73s during a switch, so i don't know as of yet if the MR63s lose ventilation or lighting on the high speed switch? Perhaps SMS can answer that question.

[Tranzit]

On CTV12 Pulse News today, editor Barry Wilson ran an excellent Postsript editorial about the high cost of the Laval Metro extension, the politics behind it, and the fact that few actual Montreal residents will even use it.

Glad to report he also speculated why the West End has been continually ignored as regards the promised Blue Line extension of many years ago; the politics behind that, etc.

[glaframb]

On CTV12 Pulse News today, editor Barry Wilson ran an excellent Postsript editorial about the high cost of the Laval Metro extension, the politics behind it, and the fact that few actual Montreal residents will even use it.

Glad to report he also speculated why the West End has been continually ignored as regards the promised Blue Line extension of many years ago; the politics behind that, etc.

Do you know if this editorial will be presented tonight at 10/11 PM ?

[SMS]

[...] Anyone who looks at the switch can see that it is a long switch, which is also why non of the cars lose lighting, ventilation or power during the switch to the 3rd platform. Whereas everywhere else u do! Although i don't know about the MR63's since they like to lose power even easier than the MR73s during a switch, so i don't know as of yet if the MR63s lose ventilation or lighting on the high speed switch? Perhaps SMS can answer that question.

You're bang on the money Dave. MR63 has no difficulty negotiating the high speed switch to Voie 4 (which is confirmed by Marc Dufour: V1 south, V2 north; consequently V3 is south [does not exist], and V4 north [aka new platform]. This was confirmed to Marc by an AMT engineer).

[Mystic]

Do you know if this editorial will be presented tonight at 10/11 PM ?

No, sadly it's only on the 6pm news. But it should appear here: http://ctvnewspostscript.blogspot.com/ however Barry hasn't updated his site in a few weeks, so maybe it will come shortly.

...

As for the high-speed switch discussion. I feel that the STM is still new to this technology and they don't want to try it too fast at first. I noticed that there are hand written signs all over that ask the drivers to CM at half power until after they pass the switches, so they could still be undergoing tests. I think that eventually the switch before entering HB will be first to increase the speed limit, then the Montmorency avant gare switching. I've noticed as well that the drivers are slowing down 20mph, just before joining the main line after HB dir MM, this could also be requested by the STM until the switches get worn in a bit.

(The benefit of riding up front is you can see the speed limits imposed and actual speed limits, and there was no speed restriction when joining up with the main line, however the drivers slowed down anyways).

Speaking of that, I love the technology of these speed limit triggers. We were entering Montmorency and we were travelling at 15mph steady, and the little needle dropped to 10mph and the buzzer went off. And then jumped back up to 15mph. I would really love to find out more about how this stuff works, it's amazing technology and it was from the 1970's at that! ... Too bad there are no more MR63's with their original control panels left, that would be interesting to see. I have seen quite a few MR73 panels, but never an MR63 up close. Also note that each MR73 control panel has it's own little personal touch, such as little coloured stickers and others have little drawings and arrows on them. Some look very clean, while others are old looking and scratched up.

Anyways, there were a lot of firsts for me during the construction and opening of the Laval extension, and I'm glad I was there for each and every step of the process!

[David D.]

I've noticed as well that the drivers are slowing down 20mph, just before joining the main line after HB dir MM, this could also be requested by the STM until the switches get worn in a bit.

(The benefit of riding up front is you can see the speed limits imposed and actual speed limits, and there was no speed restriction when joining up with the main line, however the drivers slowed down anyways).

Actually i don't know if u noticed but there's somthing very strange about that location. I rode with the drivers cabin door open many times in that segment and it appears that the MM track that is supposed to join up with the mainline isnt a switch at all!!!! It's actually the mainline track that's joining with the MM "Voie 4" so the track coming from the HB new platform isnt merging with the mainline but vise versa! My jaw dropped when i saw this and i thought i was imagining it but then i saw it again the second and third time and then again on someone's video!

And when I and others rode the special departure which leaves the OLD HB platform that was the time we were actually "switching"!! And slow speed as well, lights and ventilation off and all! (It's a regular switch).

So when the train is coming from the new platform just before the river its actually not merging at all! Track 2 joins up with it! Not track 4!(3) with 2! So it's probably only "slightly" slowing down because of the curve or somthing or because its programmed to right now but really it didnt slow down much if at all at times.

But the weird thing is when we visited back in May 2006 I might be wrong but i honestly remembered seeing it as Track 4(3) merging with the mainline just like it breaks away between Sauve and HB.. But now apparently that's not the case for the part between HB and Cartier. Now either what we imagined (because u just assumed and stated the same thing i assumed as was stating right up untill i rode it last week) was WRONG the whole time, OR it was changed some time beween May 2006 and now!?? There is only one way to know and that it to look back at our pictures we took in May 2006 at that location.. But u and i remembered the same thing which is strange or we were just both wrong... But either way right now the new bypass track DOES NOT merge with the mainline but rather Track 2 merges with the bypass track. (This is actually most logical since every train going to laval will use the bypass track except the first two special departures of each day).

EDIT:

Well i found the answer, we were just wrong the whole time.

Since the track was built it's actually the mainline track 2 that officially merges and not the by pass track. It's clearly visible in this photo i took last year. http://goingunderground.fotopic.net/p32159779.html

U can see the mainline track 2 quickly veers off sharply to the right and merges with the Bypass track 4 and the bypass track has a nice long smooth curve to the right as the tunnel begins to curve to the right at the river. (Therefore not merging at all and acting as the mainline right after that point)

[80-040_Guy-Concordia]

What ever happened to these, blue lights over the walls of the Cartier station?

Here's comment from MdM's Cartier page: “The platforms were originally meant to be accented with dramatic bright blue spotlights, as seen in the photo. Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties, they had to be removed before the station was opened”.

What could possibly be the difficulty with having lights on the walls?

[David D.]

What ever happened to these, blue lights over the walls of the Cartier station?

Here's comment from MdM's Cartier page: “The platforms were originally meant to be accented with dramatic bright blue spotlights, as seen in the photo. Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties, they had to be removed before the station was opened”.

What could possibly be the difficulty with having lights on the walls?

I don't know but i heard they might make a comeback.

I was very upset when i saw they were removed back in March or somthing. It would have been very nice if they were blue for the opening!! They were blue last year when i visited in May 2006!

Santiago has new stations with blue flood lights and it's very nice. I can't understand why the station artist decided to change them. But like i said i heard they may make a comeback.

[SMS]

It would make for nice contrast... I find the new extension pays too much homage to the colour orange.

[David D.]

It would make for nice contrast... I find the new extension pays too much homage to the colour orange.

Except Concorde lol. At least we got some nice blue there lol. (A very nice blue at that! And some green! )

Hmm.. And new Henri-Bourassa has blue.

And just a little bit at Monty too.

Hmm actually each station has blue except Cartier right now..

[glaframb]

Extracted from LCN, traduction by me !

Laval

The metro victim of its success,

The metro runs in Laval since 3 weeks, and the users are very satisfied with the service.

However, there is an itch that begin to worried some passagers: the free parking is too much popular !

The users doesn't regret that they changes their habits. "I took the commuter train before, and now , I save almost half an hour just to go to Montreal" explains an user.

More than 40 000 peoples take the metro each day at one of the three metro stations: Montmorency, Cartier and Concorde. This is 10 000 more peoples that was expected.

" We had estimated that it will be 3 000 new customers who will uses the transit system. When we look at the numbers, it's two times and even three times more than we have expected", says Odile Paradis, Official spoke-person of the STM.

The patronage is so much than the free external parking does not supply to the demand. The users are unamimous on this. This is a big penalty.

At 7:30 AM, the external parking of 680 places is already full. The users parked theirs cars on private land.

"The Laval Police could decide to put tickets on thoses cars. We find this unpleasing, so try to park your car inside in the non-free parking available for that purpose", says Marie Gendron, vice-president of public affairs with the AMT.

"There is another parking undegroud with more that 700 other parking space which are available for only 60 dollars by month. In September, those place will goes up to 80 dollars / month."

"If you take your car to downtown Montreal, it will cost you 15 $ by day, so it is much cheaper to park your car in Montmorency non-free AMT parking." implied Marie Gendron.

A few good news for the discourage users : "You will wait less on the platform this fall. Because the renovation program that gives 10 % more space aboard the wagons will be complete.

[Matt Demers]

Extracted from LCN, traduction by me !

Laval

The metro victim of its success,

The metro runs in Laval since 3 weeks, and the users are very satisfied with the service.

However, there is an itch that begin to worried some passagers: the free parking is too much popular !

The users doesn't regret that they changes their habits. "I took the commuter train before, and now , I save almost half an hour just to go to Montreal" explains an user.

More than 40 000 peoples take the metro each day at one of the three metro stations: Montmorency, Cartier and Concorde. This is 10 000 more peoples that was expected.

" We had estimated that it will be 3 000 new customers who will uses the transit system. When we look at the numbers, it's two times and even three times more than we have expected", says Odile Paradis, Official spoke-person of the STM.

The patronage is so much than the free external parking does not supply to the demand. The users are unamimous on this. This is a big penalty.

At 7:30 AM, the external parking of 680 places is already full. The users parked theirs cars on private land.

"The Laval Police could decide to put tickets on thoses cars. We find this unpleasing, so try to park your car inside in the non-free parking available for that purpose", says Marie Gendron, vice-president of public affairs with the AMT.

"There is another parking undegroud with more that 700 other parking space which are available for only 60 dollars by month. In September, those place will goes up to 80 dollars / month."

"If you take your car to downtown Montreal, it will cost you 15 $ by day, so it is much cheaper to park your car in Montmorency non-free AMT parking." implied Marie Gendron.

A few good news for the discourage users : "You will wait less on the platform this fall. Because the renovation program that gives 10 % more space aboard the wagons will be complete.

I guess STM, STL and AMT do not have to worry anymore about failure but now have to suffer the success it has brought. $745 million well spent.

About the renovated cars, I thought it was going to take 36 months at a rate of 20 cars per month. If they claim all 759 cars will be done by fall, that means this started in Fall of 2004 which it did not. So someone is wrong here. And with the upcoming possible strike, it won't be done by fall.

[SMS]

759 cars? They won't be doing the MR 63s - that's a fact. So substract 336 and you get 423 cars or 141 elements.

[Matt Demers]

759 cars? They won't be doing the MR 63s - that's a fact. So substract 336 and you get 423 cars or 141 elements.

759 came to my mind first. I apologize for the mistake.