Winnipeg Transit and area

[SirAndrew710]

The bid period for the contract for new buses closed on Friday.

Only one bidder: NFI.

According to section E2.278 (c) of the tender, these buses will have white signs. As well, while this contract is for the purchase of 40-footers, section D2.3 of the tender says that “[t]he City reserves the right to replace some or all of the purchase of 40 ft. Low-Floor buses with 60 ft. Articulated Diesel Low-Floor Transit Buses in any of the mutually agreed upon extensions.” Also, looking at the mockup included in the folder, it appears the buses will, unsurprisingly, be all-white.

https://winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/FolderContents.asp?FOLDER_NAME=901-2019&YEAR=2019

[Viafreak]

11 minutes ago, SirAndrew710 said:

The bid period for the contract for new buses closed on Friday.

Only one bidder: NFI.

According to section E2.278 (c) of the tender, these buses will have white signs. As well, while this contract is for the purchase of 40-footers, section D2.3 of the tender says that “[t]he City reserves the right to replace some or all of the purchase of 40 ft. Low-Floor buses with 60 ft. Articulated Diesel Low-Floor Transit Buses in any of the mutually agreed upon extensions.” Also, looking at the mockup included in the folder, it appears the buses will, unsurprisingly, be all-white.

https://winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/FolderContents.asp?FOLDER_NAME=901-2019&YEAR=2019

Interesting that the paint scheme spec sheet calls them DLF40's.

[LilZebra]

SkyScraperPage.com appears to be down right now. I was on it at another location and was getting "403 Forbidden Access" messages since mid afternoon.

http Error "503 Service Unavailable" at 17h30.

Checked again at 19h, seems fine now. No mention of it in Forum Issues on SSP.

[Wpgtransit11-25]

Look at all the cuts coming 

[ConnorsCompShow]

The bean counters want to totally gut route 89 on Saturdays but leave it alone on Sundays? Slow down, wha-what the fuck?! No! NO! NOOOO! Fuck that, fuck it! 

Really, what were they thinking?! Why not cut it off totally after 7 PM like weekdays? Or why not gut some of the later 48 runs so it ends roughly the same time as 46s? Or better yet, I'd rather give up Sunday service totally instead. I also don't like the 92 changes too much either. And with 47+160 coming in April, I bet you area ridership trends are going to change pretty significantly. But nope, can't let that all shake out yet.

And wait, wasn't 94 one of the ones getting gutted because of SWRT2 anyway? These bean counters are in a vacuum of their own, aren't they.

[SirAndrew710]

56 minutes ago, Wpgtransit11-25 said:

Look at all the cuts coming 

They make another multi-million dollar surplus and cut service anyway. Unbelievable. Considering the changes to the 82 and 83, it’s a good thing I rarely need to take the bus on weekends. I wonder how the 82’s schedule (unchanged since 2004) will be affected if they’re reducing the 98 to rush hour only, seeing as those two routes interline at the Grace outside rush hour. Getting rid of the Spirits as well. Route 3 will not be missed, but what about 1 and 2? Those two are fairly well used. I’d assume they’ll fill one service gap by running the 38 to the Forks during all service hours, but what will happen to service in the East Exchange, currently provided by only the 1 and 2? Or service to Broadway, seeing as the City Hall branch of the 29 doesn’t, and the 23 won’t, operate on Sunday? Somehow, the DARTs will stay despite being targeted for cuts in the past.

33 minutes ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

And wait, wasn't 94 one of the ones getting gutted because of SWRT2 anyway? These bean counters are in a vacuum of their own, aren't they.

As are 68 and 84.

[ConnorsCompShow]

Oh wow, I didn't even notice 84 was still on there too. In fairness 68 is being kept but with modifications.

I have to wonder why the counters didn't go after the ridiculously long rush hour 95 that tries to be a 66, 74, and 18 at the same time, when it'd be much more economical to have it terminate at Outlet Collection.

[Viafreak]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew710 said:

Getting rid of the Spirits as well. Route 3 will not be missed, but what about 1 and 2? Those two are fairly well used. I’d assume they’ll fill one service gap by running the 38 to the Forks during all service hours, but what will happen to service in the East Exchange, currently provided by only the 1 and 2?

I think the fact the downtown spirit routes (1-3) are free shuttle routes would make them easy targets for service reduction. The 38 is the only regular route that directly serves the Forks, however if you were go through Union Station, there is access to more routes such as the 14, 19, 54-55, 59, 64-66, 68, RT routes (160-63, 170, 180-81, 183). Interesting that three of the routes losing weekend service are all in the northeast corner of the city and all have a terminal of Kildonan Place. I can't speak for the 89 or 92 but the one Saturday a year that I ride the 85, its quite quiet. Judging by the fact that I have seen D30's on Sundays makes it seem like that is the same case on Sunday.

[SirAndrew710]

Looking at the three West Winnipeg feeders, all of which are being affected to some degree, I’m surprised to see the 98 get cut on weekdays, but not its sister route, the 82. Whenever I’m on that bus (leaving Unicity at 11:22 AM), it’s empty apart from me more often than not. I’ve never ridden it on a Saturday, but whenever I see that (40-foot) bus, it’s empty. I did ride an 83 on a Saturday a while back (leaving Unicity at 12:55 PM), and east of the Grace, there was no-one else on board. There weren’t too many people on there with me west of there, either. Even this past Thursday, when I was on the one that leaves Unicity at 11:07, there were never more than two others on there with me and I had it to myself from Sturgeon/Silver until I got off, but they’re not making any changes to that route on weekdays because industrial workers, RRC students and Sturgeon Heights students are the only reason that route’s in the black (assuming it is).

[ConnorsCompShow]

89's a bit of a paradox in that nobody rides it after 7 PM because it only goes to 7-Eleven. And because it only goes to 7-Eleven, nobody will want to ride it unless they're going to 7-Eleven. And so on and so forth, a negative feedback loop. It would be a perfect candidate for a 30-ft bus but instead they just pull one of the two runs to do it the rest of the night. If it went out to at least Club Regent then left on Starlight, left on Pandora, left on Owen, then back right on Regent, it'd see a fair bit more use. Ideally it should match the 92 and take people to Walmart and Superstore too.

Speaking of, 42 riders should probably be counting their blessings that it has the ridership it does, because it'd be a mighty fine candidate to axe totally and leave the 92 running all day if it wouldn't otherwise stress 46/47/48 even further. Gah, stupid games of mutually assured destruction.

Though I will point out that 42/89/92 would be on the Blue snow plan chopping block anyway. Hm.

[SirAndrew710]

5 minutes ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

Speaking of, 42 riders should probably be counting their blessings that it has the ridership it does, because it'd be a mighty fine candidate to axe totally and leave the 92 running all day if it wouldn't otherwise stress 46/47/48 even further. Gah, stupid games of mutually assured destruction.

What’s ridership like on the Nairn/Regent corridor express routes, anyway? I wonder if it’s like the Portage corridor, where the 21 and 22 have more ridership than the 24 and 25, which in turn have more ridership than the 67.

[ConnorsCompShow]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew710 said:

What’s ridership like on the Nairn/Regent corridor express routes, anyway? I wonder if it’s like the Portage corridor, where the 21 and 22 have more ridership than the 24 and 25, which in turn have more ridership than the 67.

46 <> 47 > 42 <> 48

[armorand]

Chops routes; can't bother to provide alternatives... 

St. James is going to take a beating, of course, no CentrePort or Assiniboia Downs extensions... so that practically destroys suburban St. James outside of Portage & Ness. No alternatives. No other route expansions. 

But Transcona? The newly extended 47 to the U of M might make up for it, but without feeders, the 47 won't have any benefits for the rest of Transcona, minus extra capacity. 

Its not as bad as Calgarys cuts to the deep SE (they removed all service after 9pm on weekends), but this does NOT bode well for the future of Winnipeg Transit. Especially that no one is capable, willing or brainstorming: expansions to destinations where people want to go, rerouting these routes for better ridership, or throwing a DART into Transcona or even St James... 

Yeah, overcrowding on Pembina will be a thing of the past, but at costs to the rest of the city... why is it so hard, to redraw a map? 

4 hours ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

The bean counters want to totally gut route 89 on Saturdays but leave it alone on Sundays? Slow down, wha-what the fuck?! No! NO! NOOOO! Fuck that, fuck it! 

Really, what were they thinking?! Why not cut it off totally after 7 PM like weekdays? Or why not gut some of the later 48 runs so it ends roughly the same time as 46s? Or better yet, I'd rather give up Sunday service totally instead. I also don't like the 92 changes too much either. And with 47+160 coming in April, I bet you area ridership trends are going to change pretty significantly. But nope, can't let that all shake out yet.

And wait, wasn't 94 one of the ones getting gutted because of SWRT2 anyway? These bean counters are in a vacuum of their own, aren't they.

Maybe combining all the feeders into one, would consolidate ridership and keep Transcona feeders alive? Same with St James. Its not like they can't loop the combined 82 and 83, or combine route 82 and 98... so why must Winnipeg Transit & the City of Winnipeg basically destroy suburban feeders & ridership, when 15 minutes with a marker & map could actually SOLVE issues that arise INSTEAD of creating issues to begin with?

[LilZebra]

Someone j just did an IP edit of the Winnipeg Transit Wikipedia page, chaning the "Depots" parameter in the infobox from:

Fort Rouge
Carruthers

to:

Fort Rouge
Brandon
North Garage

Isn't Fort Rouge and Brandon the same thing? Or is the newer 2012 garage (the one with the blue trim on it closest to the BRT) called Fort Rouge?

I'm unsure whether to do a Rollback.

[SirAndrew710]

13 minutes ago, LilZebra said:

Someone j just did an IP edit of the Winnipeg Transit Wikipedia page, chaning the "Depots" parameter in the infobox from:

Fort Rouge
Carruthers

to:

Fort Rouge
Brandon
North Garage

Isn't Fort Rouge and Brandon the same thing? Or is the newer 2012 garage (the one with the blue trim on it closest to the BRT) called Fort Rouge?

I'm unsure whether to do a Rollback.

Brandon is the new one, Fort Rouge the one right along Osborne.

[ConnorsCompShow]

15 minutes ago, armorand said:

Chops routes; can't bother to provide alternatives... 

St. James is going to take a beating, of course, no CentrePort or Assiniboia Downs extensions... so that practically destroys suburban St. James outside of Portage & Ness. No alternatives. No other route expansions. 

But Transcona? The newly extended 47 to the U of M might make up for it, but without feeders, the 47 won't have any benefits for the rest of Transcona, minus extra capacity. 

Its not as bad as Calgarys cuts to the deep SE (they removed all service after 9pm on weekends), but this does NOT bode well for the future of Winnipeg Transit. Especially that no one is capable, willing or brainstorming: expansions to destinations where people want to go, rerouting these routes for better ridership, or throwing a DART into Transcona or even St James... 

Yeah, overcrowding on Pembina will be a thing of the past, but at costs to the rest of the city... why is it so hard, to redraw a map? 

Maybe combining all the feeders into one, would consolidate ridership and keep Transcona feeders alive? Same with St James. Its not like they can't loop the combined 82 and 83, or combine route 82 and 98... so why must Winnipeg Transit & the City of Winnipeg basically destroy suburban feeders & ridership, when 15 minutes with a marker & map could actually SOLVE issues that arise INSTEAD of creating issues to begin with?

See, that's part of the issue, how do you combine 89 and 92 without making it unwieldy and awkward? I doubt they'd want to go through residential hell by continuing on McMeans to Hoka and then wiggling around Cambie (if they even could). And if it turns right at Kildare to then turn right onto Plessis, at that point you might as well jump off and fetch a 47 if you don't need to go to or through Lakeside Meadows. Especially seeing as the 64 Lindenwoods SWRT2 successor got broken up into two because of complaints about having to do a neighborhood tour. (I still think that they'll probably want the original 164 door-to-door ride to and from the core as was originally envisioned.) If only it were as simple as extending Devonshire to Day if the bioreserve wasn't in the way.

[SirAndrew710]

32 minutes ago, armorand said:

Chops routes; can't bother to provide alternatives... 

St. James is going to take a beating, of course, no CentrePort or Assiniboia Downs extensions... so that practically destroys suburban St. James outside of Portage & Ness. No alternatives. No other route expansions. 

But Transcona? The newly extended 47 to the U of M might make up for it, but without feeders, the 47 won't have any benefits for the rest of Transcona, minus extra capacity. 

Its not as bad as Calgarys cuts to the deep SE (they removed all service after 9pm on weekends), but this does NOT bode well for the future of Winnipeg Transit. Especially that no one is capable, willing or brainstorming: expansions to destinations where people want to go, rerouting these routes for better ridership, or throwing a DART into Transcona or even St James... 

Yeah, overcrowding on Pembina will be a thing of the past, but at costs to the rest of the city... why is it so hard, to redraw a map? 

Maybe combining all the feeders into one, would consolidate ridership and keep Transcona feeders alive? Same with St James. Its not like they can't loop the combined 82 and 83, or combine route 82 and 98... so why must Winnipeg Transit & the City of Winnipeg basically destroy suburban feeders & ridership, when 15 minutes with a marker & map could actually SOLVE issues that arise INSTEAD of creating issues to begin with?

I actually drew up two DARTs for St. James, I’ll post them both tomorrow. They couldn’t combine the 82 and the 83, as the latter goes east of the Grace - with Murray Park and Sturgeon Heights representing the two destinations that attract the most ridership - but a combined 82 and 98 is basically how those two route currently work with the interlining. Maybe run the 98 to Unicity at all times and run buses in a giant circle (to Unicity as an 82 and back to the Grace as a 98 or vice-versa)?

[LilZebra]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew710 said:

Brandon is the new one, Fort Rouge the one right along Osborne.

Ok, I'll leave the edit alone then.

[ConnorsCompShow]

Just to give some perspectives on just how "expensive" and insane running 95s all the way out to Polo Park is, especially after the advent of route 74 and Outlet Collection:

The length it takes to go from the Shaftesbury Park retirement residences out to Polo Park while absorbing some of the 66, 74, and 18/79's footprint is approximately 8 km (excluding the Polo Park loop itself).

The length it takes to continue from SP to Outlet Collection is 1.6 km. Add 100m for the roundabout to go the other way to be precise.

252 working days this year. At least 10 days that would otherwise be weekdays will have Sunday service because of holidays. There might be one or two others that I'm forgetting about but pretend something earth-shattering happened like QEII croaked and the system took two additional days as Sundays if you want to be conservative about it.

Under the current scheduling regime, there are 15 runs to Polo Park, and 15 runs back. Two runs, the last one in the AM, and the last one in the PM will terminate early at Tylehurst and not do the Empress loop-around into the Polo Park loop. In any case these buses are still on the road doing who-knows-what so I'll pretend that those two also do. (I have to wonder why it's kosher to be able to turn left at Regent into KP's loop but not kosher to do the same and put up some priority signals on Portage, and why pedestrian crossings are allowed at the latter and not at least the west side on the former in spite of Rougeau being close by. But that's a debate for another day.)

The budget draft declared that Transit in total operated 30,328,539 km on its buses in the entirety of 2018.

Now, let's do the math. To continue to Polo Park and back to Shaftesbury Park: 8 km x 30 runs = 240 km a day. 240 km x 252 working days = 60,480 km a year.

To continue to Outlet Collection from SP: 1.6 km x 30 runs = 48 km a day. 48 km x 252 working days = 12,096 km a year.

Net difference between the two: 48,384 km a year. That's right, just short of 50,000 km. And because it would actually go somewhere relevant to everybody and their dog, even if they just want to go to IKEA or the shops across the street, you'd have increased ridership and fare revenue pushing the route into the black and arguably even into the green, and yet another SWRT option of getting there (from Fort Rouge).

Stack it up against the full-length 89 runs on Saturdays: 11.1 km to/from Redonda to KP. 24 runs both ways for 48 total (coincidence?? ). 52 Saturdays in a year. 11.1 km x 48 runs = 532.8 km a day. 532.8 km x 52 Saturdays = 27,705.6 km. Throw in the 7-Eleven runs after 7 PM that are also getting gutted on weekdays for completeness' sake (7.8 km including the Bond/Pandora loop, 15 runs, 117 km a day) which come out to 6,084 km in a year and your grand total of throwing all Saturday service into the trash is 33,789.6 km.

[armorand]

2 hours ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

Just to give some perspectives on just how "expensive" and insane running 95s all the way out to Polo Park is, especially after the advent of route 74 and Outlet Collection:

The length it takes to go from the Shaftesbury Park retirement residences out to Polo Park while absorbing some of the 66, 74, and 18/79's footprint is approximately 8 km (excluding the Polo Park loop itself).

The length it takes to continue from SP to Outlet Collection is 1.6 km. Add 100m for the roundabout to go the other way to be precise.

252 working days this year. At least 10 days that would otherwise be weekdays will have Sunday service because of holidays. There might be one or two others that I'm forgetting about but pretend something earth-shattering happened like QEII croaked and the system took two additional days as Sundays if you want to be conservative about it.

Under the current scheduling regime, there are 15 runs to Polo Park, and 15 runs back. Two runs, the last one in the AM, and the last one in the PM will terminate early at Tylehurst and not do the Empress loop-around into the Polo Park loop. In any case these buses are still on the road doing who-knows-what so I'll pretend that those two also do. (I have to wonder why it's kosher to be able to turn left at Regent into KP's loop but not kosher to do the same and put up some priority signals on Portage, and why pedestrian crossings are allowed at the latter and not at least the west side on the former in spite of Rougeau being close by. But that's a debate for another day.)

The budget draft declared that Transit in total operated 30,328,539 km on its buses in the entirety of 2018.

Now, let's do the math. To continue to Polo Park and back to Shaftesbury Park: 8 km x 30 runs = 240 km a day. 240 km x 252 working days = 60,480 km a year.

To continue to Outlet Collection from SP: 1.6 km x 30 runs = 48 km a day. 48 km x 252 working days = 12,096 km a year.

Net difference between the two: 48,384 km a year. That's right, just short of 50,000 km. And because it would actually go somewhere relevant to everybody and their dog, even if they just want to go to IKEA or the shops across the street, you'd have increased ridership and fare revenue pushing the route into the black and arguably even into the green, and yet another SWRT option of getting there (from Fort Rouge).

Stack it up against the full-length 89 runs on Saturdays: 11.1 km to/from Redonda to KP. 24 runs both ways for 48 total (coincidence?? ). 52 Saturdays in a year. 11.1 km x 48 runs = 532.8 km a day. 532.8 km x 52 Saturdays = 27,705.6 km. Throw in the 7-Eleven runs after 7 PM that are also getting gutted on weekdays for completeness' sake (7.8 km including the Bond/Pandora loop, 15 runs, 117 km a day) which come out to 6,084 km in a year and your grand total of throwing all Saturday service into the trash is 33,789.6 km.

Plus who knew 7-11 was such a trip generator... by those margins, Ness Avenue should have LRT, and every 99 cent pizza store should have its own dedicated express service.

[ConnorsCompShow]

Apparently the Kevin Klein-Shawn Nason west-east team submitted a suggestion to outfit buses with strobe lights much like how taxis have them. It was at the most recent public works meeting. http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ShowDoc.asp?DocId=19417

Wouldn't adding a signcode that made the front/rear say "HELP!"/"CALL POLICE" be better? Unless you're some distance back, you probably wouldn't even be able to see the thing. Assuming it's roof-mounted like taxis and not something they could stick on the rear. Dirt cheap to implement since it's just a few firmware lines, in spite of the current budget drama.

[SirAndrew710]

2 hours ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

Apparently the Kevin Klein-Shawn Nason west-east team submitted a suggestion to outfit buses with strobe lights much like how taxis have them. It was at the most recent public works meeting. http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ShowDoc.asp?DocId=19417

Wouldn't adding a signcode that made the front/rear say "HELP!"/"CALL POLICE" be better? Unless you're some distance back, you probably wouldn't even be able to see the thing. Assuming it's roof-mounted like taxis and not something they could stick on the rear. Dirt cheap to implement since it's just a few firmware lines, in spite of the current budget drama.

If they could add all those codes for Rapid Transit, they could add a code for such emergencies - if there isn't already. I believe @Wpgtransit11-25 shared some codes with me that included one for emergencies.

Anyway, I took a look at schedules for both my area and the East End, and I observed that the short-turn 89s (what do the signs on those say, anyway?) have timed transfer connections with the 47 at Sev, while the short-turn 83s (which only run between Ashern Loop and the Grace, signed “CRESTVIEW” and “PORTAGE” respectively - no Unicity for whatever reason) have connections with the 11 at Dairy Queen. In both cases, the connections are with both inbound and outbound buses. I wonder how well-used those connections are, especially the latter. Whenever I’m on the 83, if anyone else stays on past Quail Ridge, they’re usually looking to switch to the 21.

[ConnorsCompShow]

6 minutes ago, SirAndrew710 said:

If they could add all those codes for Rapid Transit, they could add a code for such emergencies - if there isn't already. I believe @Wpgtransit11-25 shared some codes with me that included one for emergencies.

Anyway, I took a look at schedules for both my area and the East End, and I observed that the short-turn 89s (what do the signs on those say, anyway?) have timed transfer connections with the 47 at Sev, while the short-turn 83s (which only run between Ashern Loop and the Grace, signed “CRESTVIEW” and “PORTAGE” respectively - no Unicity for whatever reason) have connections with the 11 at Dairy Queen. In both cases, the connections are with both inbound and outbound buses. I wonder how well-used those connections are, especially the latter. Whenever I’m on the 83, if anyone else stays on past Quail Ridge, they’re usually looking to switch to the 21.

I think the emergencies one is for the times whenever a big fire happens and they send out a bus or two to act as a shelter to keep people warm and out of the elements.

Short-turn 89s appear as "DAY & REGENT".

[ConnorsCompShow]

Some more napkin math. Sorry for the double post so soon.

Route 85's full length is approximately 19.6 km. But it's so complicated that dragging and dropping so many turns eventually made Google Maps go woah there can't modify it any further.

10 runs to Whellams and 10 back to Kildonan Place on both Saturdays and Sundays for 20 total runs a day. 19.6 km x 20 runs = 392 km a day. 392 km x 52 Saturdays = 20,384 km a year. x2 for Sundays is 40,768 km a year.

The short-turned route 85 into Springfield loop weekdays after 7 on the other hand is 10.6 km. There are just 4 runs either way after 7 PM for a total of 8 runs, which are scheduled to all hit the same points at the same time each hour (almost unheard of). 10.6 km x 8 runs = 84.8 km a night. 84.8 km x 252 working days = 21,369.6 km a year. Total proposed binning all together: 62,137.6 km a year.

My idea: Send it all the way up Lagimodiere to Springfield and continue its usual footprint from that point onward, as Concordia is already served by the cut-immune 90, and London as well as portions of Gateway are served by 44. Or eliminate the CPT dogleg and continue straight on Gateway. Failing that, axe it totally and rework 11 Rothesay to absorb more of its footprint.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Route 95's length between Pan Am and Riverview is approximately 9 km. It's actually 8.9 km from Riverview to Pan Am, but it's little longer the other way because it continues all the way on Taylor to Pembina, so 100m ought to make up the difference.

25 runs both ways on Saturdays for 50 total. One starts short in the AM at FRS, two end early in the PM at FRS. 17 runs to Pan Am and 18 runs to Riverview on Sundays for 35 total, with the same FRS start/end-early behavior.

On Saturdays: 9 km x 50 runs = 450 km a Saturday. 450 km x 52 Saturdays = 23,400 km a year. On Sundays: 9 km x 35 runs = 315 km a Sunday. 315 km x 52 Sundays = 16,380 km a year. Combine the two, 39,780 km a year. 

My idea: That could comfortably fit redirecting weekday rush hour 95s to Outlet Collection (savings of 48,384 km/yr) with a bit of room to breathe.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Route 82's total length is 8.9 km. 14 runs to Unicity, 14 to the Grace Hospital on Saturdays for 28 total. The website joins two runs into one so the real divider is "Arrive Unicity"/"Leave Unicity".

8.9 km x 28 runs = 249.2 km. 249.2 km x 52 Saturdays = 12,958.4 km a year.

My idea: This is one that makes actual sense. Axe it weekdays as well (30 runs, 267 km a weekday, 67,284 km a year), rework 11/21/22 Westwood to absorb its footprint.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And a quickie, the distance from Waverley to FRS (5 km) and Beaumont Station (1.6 km): 

Route 84 does 42,840 km a year from weekdays (34 runs to and from Lindenwoods/FRS), 9,880 km a year from Saturdays (38 runs), 3,120 km a year from Sundays (12 runs) for a grand total of 55,840 km a year to FRS after Waverley.

Presuming that the SWRT2 routes failed as appears to be the case in these bean counters' vacuum, and assuming the same scheduling regime: route 84 would do 13,708.8 km a year from weekdays, 3,161.6 km a year from Saturdays, 998.4 km a year from Sundays for a grand total of 17,868.8 km a year to Beaumont Station. Net savings if only the 84's transitway terminal changed: 37,971.2 km a year.

[SirAndrew710]

10 hours ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

Some more napkin math. Sorry for the double post so soon.

Route 85's full length is approximately 19.6 km. But it's so complicated that dragging and dropping so many turns eventually made Google Maps go woah there can't modify it any further.

10 runs to Whellams and 10 back to Kildonan Place on both Saturdays and Sundays for 20 total runs a day. 19.6 km x 20 runs = 392 km a day. 392 km x 52 Saturdays = 20,384 km a year. x2 for Sundays is 40,768 km a year.

The short-turned route 85 into Springfield loop weekdays after 7 on the other hand is 10.6 km. There are just 4 runs either way after 7 PM for a total of 8 runs, which are scheduled to all hit the same points at the same time each hour (almost unheard of). 10.6 km x 8 runs = 84.8 km a night. 84.8 km x 252 working days = 21,369.6 km a year. Total proposed binning all together: 62,137.6 km a year.

My idea: Send it all the way up Lagimodiere to Springfield and continue its usual footprint from that point onward, as Concordia is already served by the cut-immune 90, and London as well as portions of Gateway are served by 44. Or eliminate the CPT dogleg and continue straight on Gateway. Failing that, axe it totally and rework 11 Rothesay to absorb more of its footprint.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Route 95's length between Pan Am and Riverview is approximately 9 km. It's actually 8.9 km from Riverview to Pan Am, but it's little longer the other way because it continues all the way on Taylor to Pembina, so 100m ought to make up the difference.

25 runs both ways on Saturdays for 50 total. One starts short in the AM at FRS, two end early in the PM at FRS. 17 runs to Pan Am and 18 runs to Riverview on Sundays for 35 total, with the same FRS start/end-early behavior.

On Saturdays: 9 km x 50 runs = 450 km a Saturday. 450 km x 52 Saturdays = 23,400 km a year. On Sundays: 9 km x 35 runs = 315 km a Sunday. 315 km x 52 Sundays = 16,380 km a year. Combine the two, 39,780 km a year. 

My idea: That could comfortably fit redirecting weekday rush hour 95s to Outlet Collection (savings of 48,384 km/yr) with a bit of room to breathe.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Route 82's total length is 8.9 km. 14 runs to Unicity, 14 to the Grace Hospital on Saturdays for 28 total. The website joins two runs into one so the real divider is "Arrive Unicity"/"Leave Unicity".

8.9 km x 28 runs = 249.2 km. 249.2 km x 52 Saturdays = 12,958.4 km a year.

My idea: This is one that makes actual sense. Axe it weekdays as well (30 runs, 267 km a weekday, 67,284 km a year), rework 11/21/22 Westwood to absorb its footprint.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And a quickie, the distance from Waverley to FRS (5 km) and Beaumont Station (1.6 km): 

Route 84 does 42,840 km a year from weekdays (34 runs to and from Lindenwoods/FRS), 9,880 km a year from Saturdays (38 runs), 3,120 km a year from Sundays (12 runs) for a grand total of 55,840 km a year to FRS after Waverley.

Presuming that the SWRT2 routes failed as appears to be the case in these bean counters' vacuum, and assuming the same scheduling regime: route 84 would do 13,708.8 km a year from weekdays, 3,161.6 km a year from Saturdays, 998.4 km a year from Sundays for a grand total of 17,868.8 km a year to Beaumont Station. Net savings if only the 84's transitway terminal changed: 37,971.2 km a year.

I just did some math on the 83. With Saturday service starting at 11 AM rather than 8 AM, that’s 5 runs from Unicity to Strauss (13.51 km) removed. 13.51 km * 5 runs = 67.55 km. 5 runs from Strauss to Unicity (14.46 km) would also be lost. 14.46 km * 5 runs = 72.3 km.

They are also doing away with the short-turn runs from Crestview to Portage. There are five of those on Saturday nights, so 5 runs * 6.64 km for a northbound run = 33.2 km. Going back to Portage, the trip back is 6.77 km long, so that times 5 runs works out to 33.85 km, plus a sixth that runs from Unicity to Portage (10.21 km). I would think that another that leaves Strauss at 6:57 PM and goes all the way to Unicity would also be lost, so there’s another 14.46 km.

The 83 runs from Portage to Unicity on Sundays, making seven trips in each direction. Headed to Unicity, 7 trips * 10.11 km = 70.77 km. Headed back, 7 trips * 10.21 km = 71.47 km.

This would represent a savings of 373.81 km a week. Times that by 52 weeks in a year, and these cuts to the 83 would represent a savings of 19,438.12 km a year.