Metrolinx RTP Release

[DavidH]

Looks like we'll see the draft RTP on Tuesday, when there is a press briefing set for 10 at the Delta Chelsea.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...8/19/c6687.html

This probably confirms that the actual documents will be available as part of the Friday board meeting agenda which, if experience holds true, will be posted online on Tuesday.

[Red Rocket 191]

Yours truly might be there...

[DavidH]

Here it is. Enjoy:

RTP: http://www.metrolinx.com/Docs/1/Board/Sep0...ppendix%20A.pdf

IS: http://www.metrolinx.com/Docs/1/Board/Sep0...ppendix%20A.pdf

Very quick thoughts, based on nothing more than a preliminary scan over breakfast: The IS is a copout, basically stating that the first round of projects will be built with MoveOntario funding and funding models for the rest requires further analysis. Given that they were boldly talking about parking and road taxes and suchlike, it looks like someone got cold feet.

The RTP is fairly conservative and more-or-less matches the Star/Globe leak except for no Sheppard or Eglinton subways. TTC gets Transit City intact, and the other MoveOntario projects are there. The big news for the first 15 years is that GO Lakeshore and Brampton lines go Express Rail (service could be as frequent as every five minutes). Other lines go Diesel/electric or electric with service down to ten minutes.

More later from me and others, I'm sure.

[Orion9131]

I am glad to see, that Metrolinx understands the importance of not interfering with agency plans. Even though there is a paragraph in the plan talking about assisting agencies in choosing the appropriate technology for a corridor.

Ok..

Metrolinx is still talking about a continous trip along Eglinton, and the SRT. That can only mean AGT technology.

[DavidH]

Metrolinx is still talking about a continous trip along Eglinton, and the SRT. That can only mean AGT technology.

I caught that as well - but it's just a passing comment. It looks like we have to wait for the specific line reviews to confirm technologies. It could go the other way - switch SRT to LRT.

[Transit pizza]

Crappy ass resolution for the map pdfs. Argh!

[DavidH]

Crappy ass resolution for the map pdfs. Argh!

Yeah, they're pretty bad. Keep in mind, though, that this is the "draft" version for the board agenda. Assuming it's approved on Friday, they will reformat all of it and make it available on the main part of the site. Odds are the maps will be better in that version.

[Red Rocket 191]

Hello everyone - Andrae Griffith from the Metrolinx RTP Advisory Committee here...

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who kept the discussion alive in the regional transportation plan consultation process, and I encourage you all to continue offering comment to make this plan the best it can be. There is are plenty of opportunities to do so in addition to the more formal town halls and online portals, so keep your eyes and ears open for more details.

Here is a rundown of what was released today. Please keep in mind that the Metrolinx board has not yet approved this draft, so there may be some modifications in the coming weeks.

The plan can be summed up in "Eight Big Moves" - bold steps to transform the way we move around the GTHA.

A fast, frequent and expanded regional rapid transit network

I'll outline below what transit projects are being proposed.

A complete walking and cycling network with bike sharing

More bike lanes, more sidewalks and bike sharing stations in major urban centres across the region

An information system for travellers, where and when they need it

One stop shopping for transit information. This would eventually include a regional trip planner and schedules accessible from mobile devices

A region-wide integrated transit fare system

By 2012, it is proposed that there will be a common fare system across all systems in the region. This is on top of Presto, which will also be in mid-rollout by that time.

A system of connected mobility hubs

Land use around transit stations will be optimized to complement the transit lines

High-order transit connections to the Pearson Airport district from all directions

In addition to a rail link from Union Station, rapid transit lines will converge on the airport from all sides.

A comprehensive strategy for goods movement

To keep us competitive, Metrolinx will study and consult with industry to develop policies to ensure goods can get to market efficiently. This could also take the form of a new, dedicated freight railway corridor.

An investment strategy to provide stable and predictable funding

Again, I will discuss this in more detail below

So, lets talk about transit.

The transit investments can be broken down into a 15-year and a 25-year plan. The 15-year plan includes:

• Express rail (15 minutes or better) on the lakeshore line (end to end) and from Union to Brampton.
  
• Regional rail (30 minutes or better) on all existing GO lines, GO expansions to many lines and a midtown GO rail line.
  
• Subway extensions to the Langstaff Gateway and the Vaughan corporate centre, both mobility hubs which will be transformed to support the expansion.
  
• Numerous other rapid transit lines where the technology will be selected in the individual project EAs.
  
• Extensions to the 410, 404, 427 and 407.
  

The 25-year plan includes:

• Express rail from Union to Cooksville and to Richmond Hill
  
• A downtown relief subway
  
• Additional other rapid transit lines
  
• GTA West and Niagara-GTA highway corridors
  

Beyond 25 years, we will have additional lines, pending implementation reviews 10 years from now.

So, how will we pay for this?

The fifteen priorities posted by Kiwi on the Urban Toronto forum will be funded from MoveOntario 2020 money, and in 2013 a funding review will take place. Experiences from other jurisdictions show that once people have a taste of good transit service, they will be more receptive to new revenue tools. There's no denying that this is a gamble, but based on the trends public transit is poised to become a service that is as essential to life in the region as health care and education.

So, I hope that this helps everyone understand what was released today and what it all means. On that note, comment away - Metrolinx is listening.

[ronaldmcgddonald]

I suppose it's a bit disappointing that Eglinton will only get a light rail line, but I'm glad to see that a downtown relief line is still being considered. I just don't want to see billions of dollars spent on a tunnel under Eglinton, just for light rail. I think Metrolinx and the TTC should consider constructing the underground portion of the Eglinton line with an expected upgrade to subway in the future. It's better to spend a bit more money now then to have to spend much more in the future basically re-tunneling the entire line for subway.

[Red Rocket 191]

I suppose it's a bit disappointing that Eglinton will only get a light rail line, but I'm glad to see that a downtown relief line is still being considered. I just don't want to see billions of dollars spent on a tunnel under Eglinton, just for light rail. I think Metrolinx and the TTC should consider constructing the underground portion of the Eglinton line with an expected upgrade to subway in the future. It's better to spend a bit more money now then to have to spend much more in the future basically re-tunneling the entire line for subway.

Building a tunnel to subway specifications was always in the cards for the TTC's EA.

[shambala]

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/504307

[ronaldmcgddonald]

Building a tunnel to subway specifications was always in the cards for the TTC's EA.

Really? That's excellent. I'm glad that they were thinking ahead.

[YRT-Guy]

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/504307

I HATE those people on the star's site that make comments. They all (well the majority anyways) seem to be very anti-GTA wide and seem to think there is no life outside of the City of Toronto. Many of the commenters as well seem to not know anything about what they are saying and want everything their way or no way...

[newflyerinvero]

From the west GTA (Burlington/Hamilton/Oakville)

Seeing the development of the Dundas Street BRT (at least I think it should be that form of mode) would make it an additional option for people, espeically through these communities, to not just rely on the GO trains along the Lakeshore or the 407 Express buses.

In the interim, Burlington Transit's looking at transforming the 407 Loop into a inter-regional transit hub, making connections with GO and Burlington Transit. Of course, this is all long-term and perhaps things from awhile back that might not be completely concrete. Yet, it does make sense to me. Other BT routes will be sent up to the north end terminal, including Routes 2-Brant and 3-Guelph Line.

Hamilton. Now, I really like the LRT plans. However, I do have a question. Would these trains be in the centre of the streets? Would this allow for local bus transit to still be available? Speaking of Hamilton, I wonder how the A-Line LRT trains would navigate the mountain access....

[Red Rocket 191]

Hamilton. Now, I really like the LRT plans. However, I do have a question. Would these trains be in the centre of the streets? Would this allow for local bus transit to still be available? Speaking of Hamilton, I wonder how the A-Line LRT trains would navigate the mountain access....

All that fun stuff will be sorted out in the individual EA for the line. It's best to think of the RTP as the guiding principles for the region - not the hard and fast rule about what it will look like on the ground.

[DavidH]

Crappy ass resolution for the map pdfs. Argh!

Steve Munro has high res versions at http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1189

[Orion9131]

I have some issues with the plan. The major point, is that most people will not be within 2km of a rapid transit line.

But the reassuring point, is that Metrolinx recognizes the Province's part of the funding, and will use that for the first phase. This give me hope that projects will actually be implemented.

[DavidH]

I have some issues with the plan. The major point, is that most people will not be within 2km of a rapid transit line.

Well, it all depends on what is "rapid transit". Take, for example, the Highway 2 BRT in Durham. The Region's long term plan for it involves widening Highway 2 to provide an HOV lane. Given the lack of police enforcement of such things, I can't help but think that this is a road widening being planned under the auspices of a transit project. And yet it qualifies as "rapid transit" under the loose definition Metrolinx is using. Buses running in mixed traffic, albeit with TSP in place, is not rapid transit by any definition I can understand.

I *hope* that Metrolinx will take these projects back to the table and ensure that BRT and LRT projects are proper implementations with physical separations from traffic along with "real" TSP implementations.

I had hoped to review in detail last night, but my kids were unsettled and by the time we got them into bed for good, I was too tired to get into reading the RTP in detail. Hopefully tonight. Until then, I'm going to hold off on detailed comments - but I suspect I will share most of your concerns.

The big item that I feel comfortable commenting on now is the lack of any form of 401-corridor rapid transit. Unfortunately, despite spending $50B, there is absolutely nothing in this plan that will help me get to work (North York City Centre from Ajax), not even a reserved lane on the 401 for buses. Yes, I could plan on taking the BRT/LRT/whatever to Scarborough Town, switching to the Sheppard East LRT, and then the Sheppard subway - but that's three modes where I currently have one. It's hard to see that it would be faster. Yes, this my particular commute, but I can't help but suspect that I'm not alone in wanting a good northern crosstown route.

[Orion9131]

In my opinion, most "BRT" projects that do not involve grade seperated roadways, are road improvement projects in disguise.

I totally agree about the lack of any Rapid Transit on the 401. There needs to be some sort of Northern Crosstown Line. I have made my remarks about the infeasibility of using Eglinton, but we do need a line.

There seems to be little mention of the 407 Transitway in the 15 year plan. In my opinion, this should be a part of the plan.

[Red Rocket 191]

In my opinion, most "BRT" projects that do not involve grade seperated roadways, are road improvement projects in disguise.

I totally agree about the lack of any Rapid Transit on the 401. There needs to be some sort of Northern Crosstown Line. I have made my remarks about the infeasibility of using Eglinton, but we do need a line.

There seems to be little mention of the 407 Transitway in the 15 year plan. In my opinion, this should be a part of the plan.

Crosstown service in Toronto will be provided by both the Eglinton, Finch-Sheppard and GO midtown corridors. With possibilities for GO service at 15 minute frequencies on this line, long-haul crosstown service could be provided this way.

As for the 407, the question is how congested the 407 is right now. It's not clear sailing, but the buses are not perennially stuck in traffic like they would be on the 401.

[DavidH]

Crosstown service in Toronto will be provided by both the Eglinton, Finch-Sheppard and GO midtown corridors. With possibilities for GO service at 15 minute frequencies on this line, long-haul crosstown service could be provided this way.

As for the 407, the question is how congested the 407 is right now. It's not clear sailing, but the buses are not perennially stuck in traffic like they would be on the 401.

A lot will depend on technology choices. If Eglinton and Finch-Sheppard continue along their current EA paths, vehicles are not going to be be fast enough to serve as viable longer-distance crosstown routes. It was very odd reading Steve Munro this morning talking about how when Eglinton was refactored as a local route, their ridership numbers match the TTC. Of course, this is a given - build a local route and it will be used as a local route and will not attract longer distance riders.

GO Crosstown has more potential, but the eastern end in Durham is problematic as it comes out fairly far north of current development. Obviously, development in Durham will go north, particularly in Seaton, but this leaves lakeshore residents who live *near* the 401 with no other choice than to head downtown if they want to take GO. We're certainly not going to head north to take a line that brings us back south of where we started from.

No, the missing 401 route is the single biggest missing problem with this plan, and the one that really personally concerns me the most. I could understand if there were no demand, but the 401 is jammed so clearly there is the potential to really get a lot of people out of cars with such a line. If not a true 401 line, than at least a single-mode relatively fast service along Sheppard - but it looks like we will be stuck with a modal split on Sheppard for the foreseeable future.

I find it *very* odd that the 407 transitway is not planned to continue into Durham given that the 407 east EA is reserving land for transitways alongside the main highway extension as well as the two north-south connector highways.

[Orion9131]

Crosstown service in Toronto will be provided by both the Eglinton, Finch-Sheppard and GO midtown corridors. With possibilities for GO service at 15 minute frequencies on this line, long-haul crosstown service could be provided this way.

I honestly cannot see Eglinton being a crosstown for logn distance commuters, even if the somehow the Eglinton, and Malvern lines use AGT tech. Too far south, and that area really needs quality local transit.

Finch/Sheppard seems the better choice for Durham travellers.

The GO midtown corridor seems like the best candidate, but I think the 401 should have been considered also.

As for the 407, the question is how congested the 407 is right now. It's not clear sailing, but the buses are not perennially stuck in traffic like they would be on the 401.

I used to use the 407 express when I used to travel from Brampton to Markham. It was really quick. I do not know what the traffic is like eat of Yonge, though. I remember the highway being congested during construction of extra lanes.

[DavidH]

Finch/Sheppard seems the better choice for Durham travellers.

I agree. With the right technology choice and without the modal split (e.g. if the two get connected at, say, Don Mills as Metrolinx is talking about), it could be a viable option - particularly if it connected down to STC which seems poised to become a DRT hub over time.

I used to use the 407 express when I used to travel from Brampton to Markham. It was really quick. I do not know what the traffic is like eat of Yonge, though. I remember the highway being congested during construction of extra lanes.

I haven't done it in three years since my employer moved to Yonge/Sheppard from Thornhill, but at the time east of Yonge was fine. The problem area was on Highway 7 east of Brock, not the 407 itself.

[Transit pizza]

Steve Munro has high res versions at http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1189

Good ol' Steve to the rescue! Yay!

[38 Creditview]

In terms of crosstown commuting, that should really be the GO corridor. Even if the Eglinton underground portion is built with the station spacing we've seen, the above ground portions will probably slow down the whole line, so it'll be slower than the subway. So it would take way too long to use as a commuter route. Hence why the GO line would be perfect.