About Via's Renaissance cars...

[hfx_chris]

Wondering if someone can supply a bit of info... I'm just becoming interested in the rail hobby, and after a recent trip from Halifax to Niagara Falls (and back), I became very interested in the Renaissance cars. I've been in the Stainless Steel cars, but it was at least 10 years ago, but I do recall them being quite comfortable. This time I found the Renaissance coach cars extremely comfortable. The single seats on the right side are excellent, the idea of being stuck on an overnight trip next to somebody you don't know was a bit of a turnoff (unless she's cute and single). The cars were unbelievably quiet and rode very smooth, although far too cold - the AC must have been set really high, because every car was the same way. It's unfortunate they don't have the same leg rests that swing out from under your seat that the other ones have, as well more options for the sleeper cars would be nice - like berths and single bedrooms. Observation cars would be nice too, but that's just reaching :angry:

I had been curious during the trip about the odd two-tone green livery, which doesn't seem to jive with Via's colours, so of course when I got home and did some research on the origins of the cars you can imagine my surprise when I stumbled upon some pictures of them when they were still in the UK, in storage, with NightStar livery - obviously Via decided to cheap out on repainting them, as the green/green livery is the NightStar livery, with an added gold band between the two colours.

I also found it interesting to note there were originally no baggage or dining cars, which Via cobbled together out of sleeper cars I believe? What I found really cool is how the livery is different on the different types of cars - the coach cars are light green on top, dark green on bottom, sleeper cars are dark green on top and light green on bottom, and the service car is kind of half and half, bringing the two different colour schemes together. I don't know if Via has the service cars backward or what, but the colours don't "flow" together as they would if they were as originally intended.

I am curious though, I know aside from holding baggage, the baggage cars also serve the purpose of allowing the European style cars with the North American style locomotives (has to do with different couplers, right?)... and there's a similar car at the very back allowing the park car to couple onto the rest of the cars, but I'm at a loss to figure out what the purpose of that car is to the passengers; I went into it (sneaked past a sign on the door saying it was for Easterly class passengers only), and it appeared to be just a big empty car with pictures on one wall and what looked like a refrigerator on the other side. Other than that it was completely open. Is it just a place for the attendants to prepare food or snacks for the folks in the park car?

I'm also curious as to the status of the cars - my research tells me Via bought all 139 of the cars - but that some of them were incomplete, or just shells. Any idea how many of them are in service, and what the status is on the incomplete ones? Where they're being stored? Are they being worked on, or are they on hold? In my opinion, they should continue working on the sleeper cars, but remove some of the double bedrooms and either create some single bedrooms and/or berths..

As for the rest of my trip, the LRC cars between Montreal and Toronto was probably both one of the scariest and most exciting times of my life. Do those cars tilt, as I read about - or is it disabled? The LRC cars they had us in between Toronto and Niagara Falls were Via 1 first class cars. Is this standard?

Thanks all!

[Esterel01]

I'm also curious as to the status of the cars - my research tells me Via bought all 139 of the cars - but that some of them were incomplete, or just shells. Any idea how many of them are in service, and what the status is on the incomplete ones? Where they're being stored? Are they being worked on, or are they on hold? In my opinion, they should continue working on the sleeper cars, but remove some of the double bedrooms and either create some single bedrooms and/or berths..

There is some more information available on the following page of VIA's web site:

http://www.viarail.ca/equipements/en_equipment.html

[* Mr. Black *]

little bit off topic...

can somone explain the practice displayed in this photo??

engine 6400 is leading an in-service train, (with 2 engines?) but there is annother train coupled to it......

Is the second train in service too? or is this just equipment moving??

[D. DeLarge]

little bit off topic...

can somone explain the practice displayed in this photo??

engine 6400 is leading an in-service train, (with 2 engines?) but there is annother train coupled to it......

Is the second train in service too? or is this just equipment moving??

Looks like 52/40, which are combined and run in a single consist until Belleville or Kingston IIRC.

[* Mr. Black *]

so they are both in service, picking up passengers until the "split" station and then split to go on their seperate ways? is there a engineer and crew riding in the towed train or are they waiting at the "split" station??

[Orion VIII]

so they are both in service, picking up passengers until the "split" station and then split to go on their seperate ways? is there a engineer and crew riding in the towed train or are they waiting at the "split" station??

When I rode that train 4 years ago, the second crew was in my coach, then as we approached the split, they moved into their engine.

[hfx_chris]

There is some more information available on the following page of VIA's web site:

http://www.viarail.ca/equipements/en_equipment.html

Ah, very interesting. So that car that connects the park car is called the "baggage transition car" - but why does it say it was converted in 1995? Typo?

[M. Parsons]

Ah, very interesting. So that car that connects the park car is called the "baggage transition car" - but why does it say it was converted in 1995? Typo?

Yes, likely a typo. Should have probably been 2005.

[smallspy]

I had been curious during the trip about the odd two-tone green livery, which doesn't seem to jive with Via's colours, so of course when I got home and did some research on the origins of the cars you can imagine my surprise when I stumbled upon some pictures of them when they were still in the UK, in storage, with NightStar livery - obviously Via decided to cheap out on repainting them, as the green/green livery is the NightStar livery, with an added gold band between the two colours.

The cars were offered with a paint/surface warranty, and VIA decided to take it. That's why they're still in their Nightstar paint, and why the P42DC's (and 6400) have been painted in dark green rather than the medium blue of the LRC's.

I also found it interesting to note there were originally no baggage or dining cars, which Via cobbled together out of sleeper cars I believe? What I found really cool is how the livery is different on the different types of cars - the coach cars are light green on top, dark green on bottom, sleeper cars are dark green on top and light green on bottom, and the service car is kind of half and half, bringing the two different colour schemes together. I don't know if Via has the service cars backward or what, but the colours don't "flow" together as they would if they were as originally intended.

The original configuration was for a group of coaches (4 or 5, IIRC), a service car, and then a larger group (7, 8 or 9) of sleepers to follow. As intended, the paint scheme flows perfectly.

Of course, the Nightstar services were to be overnight, 10pm-to-8am services operating between two cities. VIA obviously has to make do with what they have, and thus they're not using them explicitly in the manner they were originally designed.

I am curious though, I know aside from holding baggage, the baggage cars also serve the purpose of allowing the European style cars with the North American style locomotives (has to do with different couplers, right?)

Yes.

I'm also curious as to the status of the cars - my research tells me Via bought all 139 of the cars - but that some of them were incomplete, or just shells. Any idea how many of them are in service, and what the status is on the incomplete ones? Where they're being stored? Are they being worked on, or are they on hold? In my opinion, they should continue working on the sleeper cars, but remove some of the double bedrooms and either create some single bedrooms and/or berths..

I don't believe that any of the coaches are left. There are about 3-5 service cars and 20 or so sleepers left. Right now, they are sitting stored in Thunder Bay (at an Armed Forces base, IIRC).

All of the cars left were to have been built/rebuilt as part of the now-cancelled Renaissance II program.

As for the rest of my trip, the LRC cars between Montreal and Toronto was probably both one of the scariest and most exciting times of my life. Do those cars tilt, as I read about - or is it disabled?

If the cars are marshalled into a J-train, or with HEP cars, the tilt is turned off. Otherwise, it should have been on.

As well as they ride though, nothing can make up for the awful condition that much of the CN track is currently in.

The LRC cars they had us in between Toronto and Niagara Falls were Via 1 first class cars. Is this standard?

Very unusual.

Dan

[hfx_chris]

I don't believe that any of the coaches are left. There are about 3-5 service cars and 20 or so sleepers left. Right now, they are sitting stored in Thunder Bay (at an Armed Forces base, IIRC).

All of the cars left were to have been built/rebuilt as part of the now-cancelled Renaissance II program.

So they're just sitting in storage collecting dust? Shame...

If the cars are marshalled into a J-train, or with HEP cars, the tilt is turned off. Otherwise, it should have been on.

As well as they ride though, nothing can make up for the awful condition that much of the CN track is currently in.

You could tell it wasn't the cars causing the rough ride, so they were doing their job job smoothing out the ride..

Very unusual.

I see. Same on both my trip to Niagara Falls, and back to Toronto a week later. The extra leg room was quite welcome though!

[smallspy]

So they're just sitting in storage collecting dust? Shame...

Maybe so, but if they don't have the money to do anything with them, what do you expect VIA to do?

I see. Same on both my trip to Niagara Falls, and back to Toronto a week later. The extra leg room was quite welcome though!

Which train did you take to and from Niagara Falls?

Dan

[Shaun]

Maybe so, but if they don't have the money to do anything with them, what do you expect VIA to do?

Which train did you take to and from Niagara Falls?

Dan

Well with the increase in ridership maybee they could make the case to convert the existing cars into usable equiptment somehow. It would be cheaper than buying new equiptment. Especially with increasing demand and less and less equiptment due to accidents and refurbishment, something has to be done.

[hfx_chris]

Maybe so, but if they don't have the money to do anything with them, what do you expect VIA to do?

It's still a shame

Which train did you take to and from Niagara Falls?

Dunno if this is what you're looking for, but it was #95 and #90 on the way back to Toronto.

[smallspy]

So, as it turns out, VIA does have something in mind with the 33 remaining Ren cars....

From http://www.ckpr.com/news.aspx?cid=110470

British rail cars finally moving, to the scrap yard

A fleet of passenger rail cars from England which have been sitting at Thunder Bay's Keefer Terminal for seven years are finally being put to good use.

Via Rail is having the cars dismantled and will use them for parts on their existing passenger fleet.

The cars are left over from a refurbishing contract the local Bombardier plant had in 2001. Work crews with Arnone Transport have been taking the wheels and bogies off the 33 British Rail cars this week at Keefer Terminal, and preparing them for shipment down east.

Port Authority CEO Tim Heney said after seven years being parked here, the green and orange passenger cars finally have a useful purpose.

The rail cars arrived in Thunder Bay amid great fanfare in 2001. The original 139 car shipment was hailed as bringing much-needed work to Thunder Bay's struggling Bombardier plant. They were purchased at a bargain by Via Rail, as British Rail had scuttled its plans for them in the Chunnel. At total of 106 cars were refurbished at the local rail car plant, while the remaining 33 were left sitting at Keefer.

Five years ago, MP Joe Comuzzi had tried unsuccessful to convince Via Rail to retrofit the last of the rail cars at Bombardier. Via Rail spokeswoman Catherine Kaloutsky said Via never intended to refurbish all the cars, and she said reclaiming them for parts on their existing fleet is the best use of the remaining 33 cars.

Comuzzi said on Thursday he isn't disappointed to see the cars used for parts and the rest headed to the scrap yard.

In fact, he said purchasing the cars from Britain was a mistake in retrospect, saying their single pane windows haven't held up well to Canadian winters, and their narrow aisles were never wheelchair accessible. He says despite providing work for Bombardier, Canadian taxpayers did not get a good deal on the British railcars after all.

Dan

[hfx_chris]

Well that's both good and disappointing news.

He says they have single pane windows. I would disagree; on my trip, the window next to my seat was clearly double paned, as the seal in the window had broken and the inside was full of water droplets and streaks. Definitely not on the outside either.

Anyone know what he means by shipping them "down east"? Wonder if they'll arrive in Halifax...

[smallspy]

Anyone know what he means by shipping them "down east"? Wonder if they'll arrive in Halifax...

Presumably "down east" of Thunder Bay would be to VIA's Montréal Maintenance Centre.

Dan

[Shaun]

Presumably "down east" of Thunder Bay would be to VIA's Montréal Maintenance Centre.

Dan

So now what are we going to do about our extreme shortage of rolling stock? That's great that there going to be used for parts....but could it not be better put to use to be put into service? SOME cars are better than NO cars? Especially now. I guess cabablaizing existing free parts is cheaper than buying new ones?

I hope they did the math on this, and why now? After sitting in Storage all this time?

EDIT: Did we not learn from ONR's experience to run equipment from Europe in Canada? That didn't work, why would this?

[CN7066]

EDIT: Did we not learn from ONR's experience to run equipment from Europe in Canada? That didn't work, why would this?

I was under the impression that the TEE trainsets worked quite well and were in service for many years. They were at least 20 years old when the ONR bought them.

[Shaun]

I was under the impression that the TEE trainsets worked quite well and were in service for many years. They were at least 20 years old when the ONR bought them.

If i recall, they had problems with Canadian winters, and the motive power unit was replaced with an F unit before the Ex GO cars were purchased.

[Shaun]

I was just wondering how many Passengers would be on a 30 car Canadian Leaving Toronto or Vancouver?

[TrueNorth]

I was just wondering how many Passengers would be on a 30 car Canadian Leaving Toronto or Vancouver?

That's hard to tell as people are only on for parts of the route.

But here's the latest info.

The Canadian, Toronto-Vancouver

The Canadian currently departs from Toronto on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and from Jasper on Mondays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. Beginning on December 1, 2008, the Canadian will depart from Toronto on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and from Jasper on Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays.