Grand River Transit

[TC60102N]

Something I never understood is, why do you guys only complain about the ISC VIIs and not the 02 D40LF and 99 LFS which also have the ISC engine; do

Something I never understood is why "Grand River Transit" seems to only mean Kitchener, it is only the Strasburg buses (2310-2329) which are slow, it is the transmission they have that makes them so slow. The buses at Conestoga have 2 different types of transmissions on 2300-2309 and they are ALOT better than the other 2300s.

And the 3 transmissions on these buses, the names have all slipped my mind

[Orion V]

Something I never understood is why "Grand River Transit" seems to only mean Kitchener, it is only the Strasburg buses (2310-2329) which are slow, it is the transmission they have that makes them so slow. The buses at Conestoga have 2 different types of transmissions on 2300-2309 and they are ALOT better than the other 2300s.

And the 3 transmissions on these buses, the names have all slipped my mind

GRT Roster

Been meaning to ask you guys to check for its accuracy as I wrote it based on the info I can find on the net.

Soy ou're saying the 6 speed HP592 VIIs are slower than the B400R 5 speed ones? Iirc, there's only 2 types of transmission, what's the 3rd?

[general682002]

Something I never understood is, why do you guys only complain about the ISC VIIs and not the 02 D40LF and 99 LFS which also have the ISC engine; do they not exhibit the same weak power?The only other system I know of VII with ISC is Oakville but I don't hear people complain about them that much.Are the VII ISCs even weaker than the VII S50EGR (Eg. TTC, MT, Niagara)?PS: Please don't reply telling me to go to GRT or Niagara to actually ride them, if I wanted to do that, I'll have asked that. Instead, I merely want to hear opinions (biased if you want).

Oh, Oakville Orion VII do stink as well sometimes but not as bad as GRT with ZF transmission! There are two units that kept shifting back and forth during uphill.Yeah, but I still ask you to visit GRT! All you need is a friend to hitchhike you down there! I haven't been riding those Orion VII with ZF since they were new. Might have to go back soon.

As a Bus Operator from Calgary who often drives the 2001 to 2003 D40LFs wich are powered by the Cummins ISC engine, yes, they are often quite underpowered. The odd one here and there out of the batch (Numbered 7701-7858) has good power, but most are quite underpowered and even some of our old GM Fishbowls from 1977-1982 can leave many of those ISC's in the dust. Many of our S50 powered D40LF's have better power compared to the ISC's as well. The Cummins ISL Powered D40LF's are very good with power. I don't recall driving a single one of those that is under powered. Our 2004's seem to be the quickest and the later ones seem to be slightly tuned down off the start, but are still very powerful.

I've been told those ISC engine builds up all the dust much quicker than ISL, which end up slowing the power down. It's also on how many parts the engine made up, the ISC have more parts than ISL. So far I've been told the ISL is doing well as you've mentioned.

GRT RosterBeen meaning to ask you guys to check for its accuracy as I wrote it based on the info I can find on the net.Soy ou're saying the 6 speed HP592 VIIs are slower than the B400R 5 speed ones? Iirc, there's only 2 types of transmission, what's the 3rd?

Uh, ever heard Voith?! Come on!There are couple of unit on the Orion VII that have 6-speed B400R. I don't know which one has it. They have 5 speed ZF IIRC.

So now I have time to look at the fleet roster.

• Where's 8907-14 Orion V on your fleet info?
• 8907-09, 6V92TA/D863
• 8910-13, 6V92TA/HTB-748
• 8914, 6V92TA/B400R (retrofitted in mid 90's)

• 1990 Orion V have Voith, not Allison.
• 1994 Orion V have L10/4HP500
• 1994 D40LF have S50/B400R
• 2002 D40LF are 2200-07, not 08.
• 2400-17 have true LF in 2004, 2418-33 have semi-LF in 2005.

Where did you hear GRT is getting LFS Hybrid?

[BT Invero]

Oh, Oakville Orion VII do stink as well sometimes but not as bad as GRT with ZF transmission! There are two units that kept shifting back and forth during uphill.Yeah, but I still ask you to visit GRT! All you need is a friend to hitchhike you down there! I haven't been riding those Orion VII with ZF since they were new. Might have to go back soon.I've been told those ISC engine builds up all the dust much quicker than ISL, which end up slowing the power down. It's also on how many parts the engine made up, the ISC have more parts than ISL. So far I've been told the ISL is doing well as you've mentioned.Uh, ever heard Voith?! Come on!There are couple of unit on the Orion VII that have 6-speed B400R. I don't know which one has it. They have 5 speed ZF IIRC.

So now I have time to look at the fleet roster.

• Where's 8907-14 Orion V on your fleet info?
• 8907-09, 6V92TA/D863
• 8910-13, 6V92TA/HTB-748
• 8914, 6V92TA/B400R (retrofitted in mid 90's)

• 1990 Orion V have Voith, not Allison.
• 1994 Orion V have L10/4HP500
• 1994 D40LF have S50/B400R
• 2002 D40LF are 2200-07, not 08.
• 2400-17 have true LF in 2004, 2418-33 have semi-LF in 2005.

Where did you hear GRT is getting LFS Hybrid?

8910 sounds very much like 8907-09 and not like 8911-13 so it should also have a 3 speed Voith

2400-2433 are identical, they are all full low floor.

Also, when are the 2700s supposed to arrive? I thought it was around now.

[Orion V]

Oh, Oakville Orion VII do stink as well sometimes but not as bad as GRT with ZF transmission! There are two units that kept shifting back and forth during uphill.Yeah, but I still ask you to visit GRT! All you need is a friend to hitchhike you down there! I haven't been riding those Orion VII with ZF since they were new. Might have to go back soon.I've been told those ISC engine builds up all the dust much quicker than ISL, which end up slowing the power down. It's also on how many parts the engine made up, the ISC have more parts than ISL. So far I've been told the ISL is doing well as you've mentioned.Uh, ever heard Voith?! Come on!There are couple of unit on the Orion VII that have 6-speed B400R. I don't know which one has it. They have 5 speed ZF IIRC.

So now I have time to look at the fleet roster.

• Where's 8907-14 Orion V on your fleet info?
• 8907-09, 6V92TA/D863
• 8910-13, 6V92TA/HTB-748
• 8914, 6V92TA/B400R (retrofitted in mid 90's)

• 1990 Orion V have Voith, not Allison.
• 1994 Orion V have L10/4HP500
• 1994 D40LF have S50/B400R
• 2002 D40LF are 2200-07, not 08.
• 2400-17 have true LF in 2004, 2418-33 have semi-LF in 2005.

Where did you hear GRT is getting LFS Hybrid?

Damn GRT experimenting with trannies on their VIIs, no wonder they're screwed!

I take it all 3 versions of VIIs are weak due to the engine then, not the tranny.

The wiki page says they ordered the 2007 LFS as hybrids. Is that wrong? If so, then I take it to be normal 2006 style LFSes?

[TC60102N]

2400-2433 are identical, they are all full low floor.

No they aren't

2700s are coming between August and September, they are ULSD DIESEL TRANSIT COACHES the ONLY Difference between the 2700s and 2600s will be the 27s will have restyled headlights.

They are # 2701-2720

Also : Whoever did the GRT wiki-page... almost half of it is wrong lol too much to list.

[Orion V]

No they aren't

2700s are coming between August and September, they are ULSD DIESEL TRANSIT COACHES the ONLY Difference between the 2700s and 2600s will be the 27s will have restyled headlights.

They are # 2701-2720

Also : Whoever did the GRT wiki-page... almost half of it is wrong lol too much to list.

Which is why someone with who's ridden on GRT should have done that page instead of a noob like me who hasn't even been on GRT but managed to start that page.

So that info about the LFS hybrid is wrong?

Quote from the page "In mid/late 2006, 20 new NovaBus Hybrid LFS' were purchased. They are expected to come in 2007."

GRT

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

Which is why someone with who's ridden on GRT should have done that page instead of a noob like me who hasn't even been on GRT but managed to start that page.

So that info about the LFS hybrid is wrong?

Quote from the page "In mid/late 2006, 20 new NovaBus Hybrid LFS' were purchased. They are expected to come in 2007."

GRT

Yes, it is wrong. GRT bought ULSD buses, as was said, not Hybrids. I don't know who wrote that, but I've been one to correct a lot of errors on that wikipedia page in the past. But therein lies the problem with wikipedia, anyone can say anything and unles it is blaringly obvious it is wrong, it won't get changed.

[PrevostH3-45]

I have a question! I have been working on Union Street for the past week or so, and I've noticed that most of the busses used on route 4 are CNG busses, whereas I almost never see them up at King & University on 7, 8, 9, 12 (or iXpress... duh).

I've noticed this on other trips nearer to downtown Kitchener - that is, that CNG busses are used with good frequency on the closer-to-Charles-Street routes. Am I imagining this phenomenon, or is it real? Is there a reason that CNG busses are used downtown, or is it just the arbitrary planning?

The type of bus that goes out on a route is based on where it is parked in the garage at night. This is how it works in Kitchener anyway. The only time this changes is when there are not enough buses to run the full service and the first bus out of the shop is put on the first route that requires a bus.

Each parking spot corresponds with a route and run. Of the 3 route 4 runs, 2 originate in the rows designated for natural gas buses. One does not, and originates from a row where anything except natural gas can be parked.

I saw a Classic going north on King in uptown Waterloo today...and it was in Kitchener Transit livery! Which bus was this?

That was 8903.

From what I hear 793 is being fixed up. It's broken window has been fixed and it's been running. I wonder what GRT is secretly planning.

I'm not sure where you're hearing this. Yes, the window has been replaced however the bus doesn't build air.

Something I never understood is, why do you guys only complain about the ISC VIIs and not the 02 D40LF and 99 LFS which also have the ISC engine; do they not exhibit the same weak power?

The only other system I know of VII with ISC is Oakville but I don't hear people complain about them that much.

Are the VII ISCs even weaker than the VII S50EGR (Eg. TTC, MT, Niagara)?

Actually no, the 2002 D40LF have the ISL engine.

So now I have time to look at the fleet roster.

• 2400-17 have true LF in 2004, 2418-33 have semi-LF in 2005.

All 24XX buses are almost identical. They are ALL fully low floor. They do have very small differences that the average person wouldn't notice. (ie. 2 floor drains instead of 1, 2 remote mirror toggles instead of 1)

No they aren't

2700s are coming between August and September, they are ULSD DIESEL TRANSIT COACHES the ONLY Difference between the 2700s and 2600s will be the 27s will have restyled headlights.

They are # 2701-2720

Also : Whoever did the GRT wiki-page... almost half of it is wrong lol too much to list.

There will be 24, 2007 buses. From what I understand, they will also have tinted windows, so thats not he only thing. We'll have to see teh changes when they arrive.

So that info about the LFS hybrid is wrong?

Quote from the page "In mid/late 2006, 20 new NovaBus Hybrid LFS' were purchased. They are expected to come in 2007."

GRT

If I remember correctly, 12 in August, 12 in November.

[crantila]

The type of bus that goes out on a route is based on where it is parked in the garage at night. This is how it works in Kitchener anyway. The only time this changes is when there are not enough buses to run the full service and the first bus out of the shop is put on the first route that requires a bus.

Each parking spot corresponds with a route and run. Of the 3 route 4 runs, 2 originate in the rows designated for natural gas buses. One does not, and originates from a row where anything except natural gas can be parked.

Wow - neat! Do you happen to know if there is a source for the rest of the routes? I'm half-expecting that to be semi-hidden information. It was interesting to me, however, that today I didn't see any CNG busses on route 4 - 2611 and 2613 were running the daytime service, and I saw a 23xx (2316?) added later, heading into the rush hour.

There will be 24, 2007 buses. From what I understand, they will also have tinted windows, so thats not he only thing. We'll have to see teh changes when they arrive.

If I remember correctly, 12 in August, 12 in November.

Wow - also neat! Tinted windows, eh? That will be pretty spiffy. Do you know how the current LFS windows are treated? The light passing through them seems to me to be different than the light passing through the GRT's New Flyer busses (perhaps a perception in my mind alone).

[general682002]

Actually no, the 2002 D40LF have the ISL engine.

It's ISC engine. The ISL wasn't on the major market back then.

8910 sounds very much like 8907-09 and not like 8911-13 so it should also have a 3 speed Voith

First 3 have Voith, then 4 have Allison.

[kitchenerlrt]

I'm kind of confused. Are we getting hybrids or diesels for the 27xx?

[Orion V]

I'm kind of confused. Are we getting hybrids or diesels for the 27xx?

You'll wish you're getting hybrids! LOL.

No, you guys are getting diesels afterall.

[PrevostH3-45]

It's ISC engine. The ISL wasn't on the major market back then.First 3 have Voith, then 4 have Allison.

My mistake, it is indeed the ISC in the 02 D40LF.

[Orion V]

My mistake, it is indeed the ISC in the 02 D40LF.

So I take it the ISC works well in the 02 D40LFs since their bodies are lighter than the VIIs? I don't hear alot of complains about the 02 D40LFs compared to the VIIs.

[kitchenerlrt]

You'll wish you're getting hybrids! LOL.

No, you guys are getting diesels afterall.

Noooooooooooo . Wern't we suppose to get them?

[crantila]

Noooooooooooo . Wern't we suppose to get them?

Nope. Nobody actually ever said that GRT would get hybrid busses.

[PrevostH3-45]

So I take it the ISC works well in the 02 D40LFs since their bodies are lighter than the VIIs? I don't hear alot of complains about the 02 D40LFs compared to the VIIs.

They work very well, and are probably the most powerful buses we have. They have a different transmission than the VIIs.

[kitchenerlrt]

They work very well, and are probably the most powerful buses we have. They have a different transmission than the VIIs.

The sound very powerful aswell.

[Orion VIII]

Someone from GRT was at Mississauga Transit Central Garage looking at the new EZ-Riders this afternoon.

[Orion V]

They work very well, and are probably the most powerful buses we have. They have a different transmission than the VIIs.

That's the first time I've heard anyone applaud the ISC as powerful!

Orion VII 2300-2309 have the same transmission as the 02 D40LFs, namely the Allison World B400R5; thus, the powertrain from 2300-2309 is exactly the same as the 02 D40LFs yet people say all the GRT VIIs suck, so there must be another factor.

[crantila]

people say all the GRT VIIs suck, so there must be another factor.

It may be that "people" are simply anti-VII.

[TC60102N]

Someone from GRT was at Mississauga Transit Central Garage looking at the new EZ-Riders this afternoon.

They better not get any ideas LOL

[kitchenerlrt]

How many of the 27xx will be used for replacement, and how many will be used for expansion? Any chance that a route might be created to the airport? Thanks.

[Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit]

How many of the 27xx will be used for replacement, and how many will be used for expansion? Any chance that a route might be created to the airport? Thanks.

The info has been posted before, but anyways...

Originally it was to be 12 replacement buses and 8 expansion buses. Since the UofW now will have a UPASS they are getting more service so 4 more expansion buses were bought. It now stands at 12 replacement buses and 12 expansion buses.

http://www.region.waterloo.on.ca/web/Regio...pdf?openelement

and finally, no route to the airport (this year anyways!).