Peterborough Transit

[BrandonC]

Are there any OSM users here? we're looking to load the entire Peterborough transit system manually into the Moovit app (we previously did this for Durham Region Transit).

This will give a google-maps-like experience with live directions both in an app as well as on the web once we upload it into the Moovit database. It also might 'nudge' PT to release their gtfs data (DRT hurried up their release of the open data portal when they saw us leap ahead of them;  after years of dragging their heels, they passed along their data to Transit App devs less than 3 months after the Moovit launch).

you can reply here or PM me if you'd like to work with us on this labour of love.

[austin_medic]

On 5/14/2018 at 8:43 PM, BrandonC said:

Are there any OSM users here? we're looking to load the entire Peterborough transit system manually into the Moovit app (we previously did this for Durham Region Transit).

This will give a google-maps-like experience with live directions both in an app as well as on the web once we upload it into the Moovit database. It also might 'nudge' PT to release their gtfs data (DRT hurried up their release of the open data portal when they saw us leap ahead of them;  after years of dragging their heels, they passed along their data to Transit App devs less than 3 months after the Moovit launch).

you can reply here or PM me if you'd like to work with us on this labour of love.

I'm interested in helping out.

Peterborough Transit currently doesn't have any gtfs data, although they have rewarded an RFP for a CAD/AVL system intended to fulfill that purpose as of April 30th. Although with current management I wouldn't be surprised if they drag their feet all the way, but if they see an outside party putting all of their information on the internet for them then that might give them a kick in the butt to move along and drag this transit system out of the 1970's and into 2018.

Anyhow, we should move this into PM's

[Marc]

Are there still major mechincal issues with some of the buses given the frequency of delays due to bus problems?

[austin_medic]

I think one of our oldest Nova's blew its transmission out at Fleming a couple weeks ago, unit 25 or unit 26 I think. Bright red fluid was all over the ground underneath the bus. Some of the newer Nova's have had some problems too, although I'm not sure what the problem is exactly. 

Also it would appear that 66 had the TOBI system ripped out. Unsure if it was sent back to Strategic Mapping or if its going to end up in the landfill.

[Marc]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:14 PM, austin_medic said:

Peterborough Transit currently doesn't have any gtfs data, although they have rewarded an RFP for a CAD/AVL system intended to fulfill that purpose as of April 30th. Although with current management I wouldn't be surprised if they drag their feet all the way, but if they see an outside party putting all of their information on the internet for them then that might give them a kick in the butt to move along and drag this transit system out of the 1970's and into 2018.

in a case of praise be to $deity, there's movement on the transit app front but there won't be anything on our devices until March next year.

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/news-story/8629752-city-set-to-offer-new-transit-app-for-peterborough-bus-riders/

Seems city staff spent 2 years researching on the different types of apps that could be used here but I doubt there was any sort of hurry-up from the transit management.

[austin_medic]

4 hours ago, Marc said:

in a case of praise be to $deity, there's movement on the transit app front but there won't be anything on our devices until March next year.

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/news-story/8629752-city-set-to-offer-new-transit-app-for-peterborough-bus-riders/

Seems city staff spent 2 years researching on the different types of apps that could be used here but I doubt there was any sort of hurry-up from the transit management.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the technology is active well before March. The signal priority would be a likely one, as if a driver decides to take a bus that has it installed all the traffic lights are allegedly already hooked up and ready to go, the whole thing would just work without anyone realizing it.

[austin_medic]

The City also wants to purchase 3 new buses, as the spare ratio is 15% instead of 25, the additional runs for Fleming and Trent have strained it to the point where there were almost cancellations for the regular routes. We've gone down that path already once, and I'm sure for most people it's a time they'd prefer to forget.

[Marc]

18 hours ago, austin_medic said:

The City also wants to purchase 3 new buses, as the spare ratio is 15% instead of 25, the additional runs for Fleming and Trent have strained it to the point where there were almost cancellations for the regular routes. We've gone down that path already once, and I'm sure for most people it's a time they'd prefer to forget.

they'd better get in quick while the provnice is handing out the money.  If ford cuts the gas tax that's a lot of money for transit that's not going to flow to municipalities.

[austin_medic]

On 5/26/2018 at 3:32 PM, Marc said:

they'd better get in quick while the provnice is handing out the money.  If ford cuts the gas tax that's a lot of money for transit that's not going to flow to municipalities.

That is assuming Ford will get in. Either way they have accounted for that so they aren't totally SoL if he manages to pull the rug out from under the NDP and Liberals .

If gas tax gets cut then they will only buy one bus.

[austin_medic]

Ward's been spending money on better signage for trent and fleming express stops, they are both brown colored instead of the green that regular stops have.

There was a handi-van out on the Community Bus route today, but it had an extra bit displayed that said "North Bus". I would assume they realized it was cheaper and more efficient to run a handi-van on it instead of a full fat 40 foot bus that would have trouble squeezing down narrow areas.

So far no changes resulting from the 1.9 million that was spent on upgrading the technology has appeared. I would assume orders have been put in and the equipment will arrive later in the year and that is when things will start to change.

[Marc]

23 hours ago, austin_medic said:

Ward's been spending money on better signage for trent and fleming express stops, they are both brown colored instead of the green that regular stops have.

There was a handi-van out on the Community Bus route today, but it had an extra bit displayed that said "North Bus". I would assume they realized it was cheaper and more efficient to run a handi-van on it instead of a full fat 40 foot bus that would have trouble squeezing down narrow areas.

So far no changes resulting from the 1.9 million that was spent on upgrading the technology has appeared. I would assume orders have been put in and the equipment will arrive later in the year and that is when things will start to change.

What are they doing on stops that serve both regular transit routes and Trent or Flemming services or is just where a stop might be mistake for a regular transit when it's only served by a Trent or Flemming bus?

[austin_medic]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:09 PM, Marc said:

What are they doing on stops that serve both regular transit routes and Trent or Flemming services or is just where a stop might be mistake for a regular transit when it's only served by a Trent or Flemming bus?

 

The stops that Trent and regular routes serve have "University Service Plus" listed on the sign. The Fleming only stops are listed as Fleming Express or SSFC Express only.

The regular stops that are also served by Fleming routes have no distinction at all, and this confuses some of the drivers (typically ones that don't drive it often or haven't driven it before and didn't look at the route map beforehand) and many passengers. I've seen drivers on the Fleming Lansdowne serving every single stop along Charlotte despite the fact there's only supposed to be 3 Fleming stops along that stretch of road. They sometimes also pick people up/drop off at every stop on Goodfellow, even though the only stops for the Fleming bus on it is supposed to be the shelter beside Talwood Drive and further down at the intersection where it turns onto Clonsilla. 

None of the 'new' signs have been installed on these particular stops. The two stops that were moved from Traill College and McDonnel and Reid onto Stewart Street were replaced with brown 'Trent Express' signs, and the other Trent only/both stops have remained with the old signs.

[austin_medic]

The city is about to drop 500k on a plan to overhaul the transit system. 

It will include a complete redesign of all bus rotues and concept for a new bus terminal.

 

They might (for some reason) recommend double decker or articulated vehicles, which I think would be an extreme long term stretch goal. The current bus barn won't take double deckers, the new one might not take them either as to my knowledge it's already been designed with single deckers in mind. 

I can't see articulated vehicles being able to fit down 90% of the streets in Peterborough.  this is why i'd think these would be a long term goal instead of short term. It would be most likely to happen after a new bus terminal is built with 60 footers, or double deckers in mind. 

In the case of double deckers it would require the city to acquire vehicles from a company other than Nova Bus, and the fleet manager was dead set against that idea in the past, the one exception is the community bus and I'm sure he's not too happy about that either. I've heard their articulated buses suck in the snow and get stuck constantly as well.

The city would probably incur some training expenses on having everyone learn how to drive these bigger vehicles.

The city already does tree trimming so GO Transit's double deckers don't get smashed by huge branches sticking out over the road, so i'd see those as more viable than artics in the shorter term, provided they were limited to Fleming and Trent Express services, although they would need to be parked outside until a new barn is built with them in mind. 

 

Personally I think it would be better to simply increase the service frequency across the board and the problem would be solved for the regular routes, I'd say the same for the Trent and Fleming Express.

The overcrowding is a penny pinching problem more than anything else.

Smaller vehicles might be considered for less busy routes. 

There will be a long term strategy to go with this plan that will probably outline most of the things I mentioned above. 

 

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/news-story/8843596-new-study-would-map-out-peterborough-transit-system-for-next-30-years/

[Marc]

14 hours ago, austin_medic said:

The city is about to drop 500k on a plan to overhaul the transit system. 

Though surely this work should have started earlier following the 2012 transit review.

Is taking 5 years to get it rolling due to the city and the money or is yet another case of the wheels of transit management spinning backwards.

[austin_medic]

10 hours ago, Marc said:

Though surely this work should have started earlier following the 2012 transit review.

Is taking 5 years to get it rolling due to the city and the money or is yet another case of the wheels of transit management spinning backwards.

We have someone who is competent in the position of Transit Manager with Ward, he's trying to go forwards but Jones wants to go backwards for whatever reason, hes completely out of touch with what the transit system needs. Or there is somebody else pulling the string behind the curtain and he's just the puppet that takes the beating.

95% of the crap that was written in the operations review was never even looked at, let alone done. I think combining the East Bank express and Nicholls Park failure put an end to any of Jones's plans beyond simply increasing service on 4 base routes. To be honest I don't know how Jones was thinking he'd be able to magically cut 5 buses down to just 2 and expect a good result. I have to wonder if he ever asked for more vehicles and staff so he could fulfill more of the plans he had written up as a consultant and got told hell no by Bennett and his cronies. 

[Marc]

On 8/17/2018 at 10:20 PM, austin_medic said:

We have someone who is competent in the position of Transit Manager with Ward, he's trying to go forwards but Jones wants to go backwards for whatever reason, hes completely out of touch with what the transit system needs. Or there is somebody else pulling the string behind the curtain and he's just the puppet that takes the beating.

95% of the crap that was written in the operations review was never even looked at, let alone done. I think combining the East Bank express and Nicholls Park failure put an end to any of Jones's plans beyond simply increasing service on 4 base routes. To be honest I don't know how Jones was thinking he'd be able to magically cut 5 buses down to just 2 and expect a good result. I have to wonder if he ever asked for more vehicles and staff so he could fulfill more of the plans he had written up as a consultant and got told hell no by Bennett and his cronies. 

yes I've heard good things about Martin Ward and that a few drivers have fallen foul of him for things like having personal radios playing though not all drivers seem to be getting the message.

Don't know what the outcome was about the transit discussion by council last night.  Nothing on jumps out on the examainers's site apart from transit relating to the new housing development over in east city (and with 700 homes going in there it would make sense to transit service).

[Marc]

On Chex News tonight they had a brief report on the start of the transit review.

The first part is survey at is an online survey at ptsurvey.ca or can be done at the terminal.

Some people will find some of the survey questions invasive (age/gender/who you live/income and where you live).

I found it a very limited it it's scope.  I guess it's trying for snap shot of usage (in my case it asked about last friday) asking where I traveled to/from and what means I used to get to/from though in my case it's awkward.  I do contracting work that's IT related and rely on PT as I don't drive but it means I travel to various parts of the city and the closest option is working from home which confuses because I documented use for last Friday when I had a job booked so it was bus out to the site, bus home again but the survey couldn't quite comprehend that.

And if you're a handivan user there were no related questions.

All in all not a good survey IMHO.

 

[austin_medic]

3 hours ago, Marc said:

On Chex News tonight they had a brief report on the start of the transit review.

The first part is survey at is an online survey at ptsurvey.ca or can be done at the terminal.

Some people will find some of the survey questions invasive (age/gender/who you live/income and where you live).

I found it a very limited it it's scope.  I guess it's trying for snap shot of usage (in my case it asked about last friday) asking where I traveled to/from and what means I used to get to/from though in my case it's awkward.  I do contracting work that's IT related and rely on PT as I don't drive but it means I travel to various parts of the city and the closest option is working from home which confuses because I documented use for last Friday when I had a job booked so it was bus out to the site, bus home again but the survey couldn't quite comprehend that.

And if you're a handivan user there were no related questions.

All in all not a good survey IMHO.

 

I'd be willing to bet IBI Group would love to keep some of the information like income and people in your household to sell for more money down the road, assuming there's no laws to stop them from going ahead and doing so.

I'll also bet a lot of stuff they write up this time will never happen, just like the last review. 

[Marc]

12 hours ago, austin_medic said:

I'd be willing to bet IBI Group would love to keep some of the information like income and people in your household to sell for more money down the road, assuming there's no laws to stop them from going ahead and doing so.

I'll also bet a lot of stuff they write up this time will never happen, just like the last review. 

might depend on what the contract with the city says.

I know some-one with an in at the right levels so I'll see what I can find out but might take a couple of weeks.

[austin_medic]

They got a demonstrator model in for a few days 

Apparently they are crap from what I read. I wonder how it would hold up over a 15 to 20 year life with all the salt on the road in the winter. The city should hold onto the contract they have with Nova bus and the relationship that comes with it. I bet the fleet manager would freak out if he had yet another new model of bus he has to ensure is taken care of properly.

[Marc]

20 hours ago, austin_medic said:

They got a demonstrator model in for a few days 

Apparently they are crap from what I read. I wonder how it would hold up over a 15 to 20 year life with all the salt on the road in the winter. The city should hold onto the contract they have with Nova bus and the relationship that comes with it. I bet the fleet manager would freak out if he had yet another new model of bus he has to ensure is taken care of properly.

Can''t be any more crap the current bus for the community bus - I hear it's had several trips back the shop due to various issues (the floor being one of them).

Given the bus in the tweet above looks smaller than the usual Nova's does that mean it's one they look at for the community bus?

I had a look at the Nova Bus website and they don't see to have anything small than the current 40 foot LFS so the city might not have an option there though I agree there would be definite advantages to going with an existing supplier.

[Seashore_518203]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:07 PM, austin_medic said:

Apparently they are crap from what I read. I wonder how it would hold up over a 15 to 20 year life with all the salt on the road in the winter. The city should hold onto the contract they have with Nova bus and the relationship that comes with it. I bet the fleet manager would freak out if he had yet another new model of bus he has to ensure is taken care of properly.

Seeing as how the bus only debuted in the second half of 2018, there are only a few properties that have them in operation (Omaha, NB and Grand Forks, ND are two). I take it that the "crap" analysis that you refer to was from one of these two companies that have the new Alexander Dennis model.

However, I suspect your "crap" analysis was referring to the New Flyer Midi. Although it is basically the same model, it is an entirely different manufacturer so you can never assume the buses will be the same. The reviews on the Midi are mixed. Some systems actually have had good experiences with them, while others have not.

I really wish transit fans would leave vehicle opinions to people who have either driven them (drivers), fixed them (mechanics) or operated them (management).

As for the 15 to 20 years life cycle that you mention, no bus built nowadays is designed to last that long, including Novas. The AD Enviro 200 bus is defined as a mid life cycle vehicle meaning 7-10 years.

[Bus_Medic]

Unless they’re drastically changed their undercarriage design and material choices from the SLF that preceded this, my outlook for them is poor.

[409 Thornton]

Hello folks of Peterborough. I am looking for some feedback on a plan I wish to purpose to the County of Northumberland, to atleast get the ball rolling on what feasible transit service within Northumberland would look like. I have made up a map and basic scheduling and I am just looking for some honest opinions about this idea.

Map

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YbNy5CQd3lq9fRBH85kggntMEs0YoT89&usp=sharing

Initial scheduling attached.

Thank you in advance!

 

NCT.xlsx

[Marc]

With the new council sworn in, Kami Okapo is taking over as transportation chair from Don Vassiliadis who won't be missed in some parts.