Benjamin

http://news.trimet.org/2014/10/trimets-newest-fleet-of-buses-begins-to-roll-into-service/

That blog is run by Al Margulies, obviously a former driver. He saw what he saw. TriMet is still completing this fiscal year's bus procurement. They are prepping the 3300s to replace some of these, along with the 1400 series Phantoms. The 3400s, TriMet's first 30-foot long buses since 1992, will replace the 1600s and 1900s during 2015. The 1992 Flxible Metros (the 1700 series) are no longer in service as of this July. A few of those were still around at the Merlo garage, as evidenced by some recent pictures taken by Erik Halstead, but they are not active as they are pending being scrapped. ~Ben

Whoa-ho-hooooo, Nellie! Get a load of this. . . http://rantingsofatrimetbusdriver.blogspot.com/2014/10/dont-cannibilize-buses.html By the looks of the story depicted in the link above, TriMet is actually starting to get rid of their oldest low-floor buses. These are 1997 New Flyer D40LFs (2001-2022). These made up TriMet's second and last fleet of buses to use the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine (the first being their 1994 Flxible Metro units 1844-1853, which they got rid of during their 2009 crisis). For those of you who want to take a ride on these Series 50-powered low-floors, better mosey on down here quick! This story was published only 4 days ago. ~Ben

Being 1984 builds, they likely had the HT747. ~Ben

The Neoplan AN408 buses (the "Li'l Bus") used the most basic DD/Allison powertrain: an 8.2L "Fuel Pincher" (165 hp) engine to an AT545 transmission. ~Ben

TriMet's 3300 series Gillig Advantages should appear any time now. . . which would mean the 1400 series Phantoms built in 1990 will be extinct. The same contract also calls for up to 40 new 29-foot buses to be delivered in early 2015 to replace the 1600s. ~Ben

I've noticed that the Center Street Garage now has almost all of the 3100 series Gillig low-floor buses as opposed to last year, when they were brand new. They started out with 3101-3145, but this year buses 3146-3159 have been added, leaving the Merlo Road Garage with units 3160-3170 only. The Merlo Road Garage still has all the remaining 1700 series Flxible Metros in storage, but none of them are currently active and are all awaiting scrap or resale. The 3300s are now supposed to be deployed. Let me know in coming weeks when you see one. ~Ben

Sherman, Here's a video recording of a 1992 Gillig Phantom 30102TB6V92TA that Stephen (HKT120) did. Link: Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TAC 253 hp Transmission: Voith D863.2 (T-drive) And another (a 1991 model) by Joshua Thurman: ~Ben

I was going to say, too, that this transmission was the choice of U.S. Army trucks. It was used in the M939 family of trucks, whether that was the M939/A1 series using the Cummins NHC250 14-liter (naturally-aspirated) engine or the M939/A2 series powered by another Cummins diesel engine, in that case the turbocharged 6CTA8.3 (later C8.3 and ISC). ~Ben

Allison MT(B)654CR ratings: GENERAL RATING Max input: 250 hp (186 kW) Max torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Input speed: 1800-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 55,000 lbs (24,948 kg) GVW or GCW TRANSIT/SHUTTLE BUS Max input: 235 hp (175 kW) Max torque: 740 lb/ft (1003 N-m) Max turbine torque: 1350 lb/ft (1830 N-m) Input speed: 2000-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW EMERGENCY VEHICLES Max input power: 305 hp (227 kW) Max input torque: 975 lb/ft (1322 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1735 lb/ft (2352 N-m) Input speed: 1800-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 55,000 lbs (24,948 kg) GVW INTERCITY COACH & SCHOOL BUS RATING Max input power: 300 hp (224 kw) Max input torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Input speed: 1800-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW HEAVY TRUCK RATING Max input power: 250 hp (186 kW) Max input torque: 625 lb/ft (847 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Input speed: 2000-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 73,280 lbs (33,240 kg) GVW or GCW MOTORHOME RATING Max input power: 305 hp (227 kW) Max input torque: 975 lb/ft (1322 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1735 lb/ft (2352 N-m) Input speed: 2000-3000 RPM* Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW *Input speed 2600 RPM maximum on models equipped with retarder. Source: the official Allison Transmission MT(B)644, 647 and 654CR Service Manual (as usual) ~Ben

Jack 47, Getting back to the 1983 Orion I 01.506 powered by the Detroit Diesel 6V92TA (253 hp) engine and Allison MT644 transmission, now that I know that the MT644 was rated for engines making 235 hp and 740 lb/ft of torque when used in transit buses, I still think the TC494 torque converter (1.92:1 stall ratio) would've been acceptable as this 6V92TA (with the 7G65 injectors) was still past those limits. ~Ben

Here are the official MT(B)644/647 ratings: GENERAL RATING Max input power: 250 hp (186 kW) Max input torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 55,000 lbs (24,948 kg) GVW or GCW TRANSIT BUS AND AIRPORT SHUTTLE BUS RATING Max input power: 235 hp (175 kW) Max input torque: 740 lb/ft (1003 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1350 lb/ft (1830 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW EMERGENCY VEHICLE RATING Max input power: 300 hp (224 kW) Max input torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1420 lb/ft (1926 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 55,000 lbs (24,948 kg) GVW INTERCITY COACH AND SCHOOL BUS RATING Max input power: 300 hp (224 kW) Max input torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW HEAVY TRUCK RATING Max input power: 250 hp (186 kW) Max input torque: 625 lb/ft (847 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 73,280 lbs (33,240 kg) GVW or GCW MOTOR HOME RATING Max input power: 300 hp (224 kW) Max input torque: 780 lb/ft (1058 N-m) Max input turbine torque: 1365 lb/ft (1851 N-m) Vehicle weight: Up to 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg) GVW Input speed (all): 2000-3000 RPM Source: the one and only Allison Transmission MT(B)644, 647 and 654CR Service Manual ~Ben

You're welcome. ~Ben

What more can I say? 5-speed automatics weren't really common in transit buses. Highway coaches, maybe. Unless you're talking about the torque converter lock-up effect, I wish I could explain further. ~Ben

I wish I knew. . . but the common automatic was the HT748 for buses of that year (1992). I wish I knew what the actual model was. . . ~Ben

Yes, they had the 6V92TA engine. ~Ben

Denning is/was perhaps the only Aussie bus manufacturer to use American powertrains in their buses. Here's two videos of one of those examples - it is a 1981 model "DenFlex" powered by the Detroit Diesel 6V53T engine and Allison MT643 automatic transmission. Both videos by Jaymie Treadwell and "Henergy1994." 2013 video of ZXP 095: 2014 video of same bus: These videos came up when I searched YouTube for "Allison MT643." ~Ben

If there is a curious question about the powertrains of the old Orion buses YRT used to have, it is about the torque converters and their stall ratios. Would anyone happen to know the exact torque converter and stall ratio of these following buses? I will be listing guesstimates. Grade ability: first gear ratio x torque converter stall ratio 506 - 1980 Orion I 01.501 (ex-Richmond Hill Transit 506) 507 - 1981 Orion I 01.501 (ex-Richmond Hill Transit 507) 512, 514 - 1981 Orion I 01.501 (ex-Vaughan Transit 512, 514) 2016-2017 - 1982 Orion I 01.501 (ex-Markham Transit 2016-2017) Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V53N Transmission: Allison MT643 Torque converter: TC370 (2.43:1 stall ratio) Grade ability: 8.7:1 508 - 1985 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Richmond Hill Transit 508) 515-516 - 1986 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Vaughan Transit 515-516) 517-518 - 1987 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Vaughan Transit 517-518) 8502 - 1985 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Newmarket Transit 8501) 8602 - 1986 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Newmarket Transit 8601) 8709 - 1987 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Richmond Hill Transit 509) 8723 - 1987 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Collingwood Transit 8701) 8801 - 1988 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Newmarket Transit 8801) Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V71N Transmission: Allison MT647 (MT644 on 508, 8502) Torque converter: TC495 (2.21:1 stall ratio) Grade ability: 7.91:1 519-521 - 1987 Orion I 01.508 (ex-Vaughan Transit 519-521) 522-525 - 1989 Orion I 01.508 (ex-Vaughan Transit 522-525) 2018-2019 - 1983 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Markham Transit 2018-2019) 2021-2024 - 1985 Orion I 01.508 (ex-Markham Transit 2021-2024) 2027-2030 - 1986 Orion I 01.508 (ex-Markham Transit 2027-2030) 8504 - 1985 Orion I 01.502 (ex-North San Diego County Transit 2) 8505-8506 - 1985 Orion I 01.508 (ex-GO Transit 1128-1129) 8713-8721 - 1987 Orion I 01.508 (ex-GO Transit 1133-1141) 9001-9002 - 1991 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Newmarket Transit 9001-9002) 9003 - 1990 Orion I 01.502 (originally Pembroke Transit 5; acquired by Newmarket Transit in 2005) Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA (with DDEC on 519-525, 8713-8721, 9001-9003) Transmission: Allison HT747 (HT748 on 519-525, 8713-8721, 9001-9003) Torque converter: TC495 (2.21:1 stall ratio) Grade ability: 8.15:1 YRT 2020 - 1984 Orion I 01.502 (ex-Markham Transit 2020) Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V71N Transmission: Allison HT747 Torque converter: TC470 (3.06:1 stall ratio) Grade ability: 11.29:1 ~Ben

Here's one I did. ~Ben

Most likely. I know NJT's had them, as did SEPTA's. The "M" at the end of the model nomenclature means a mid-mount engine. ~Ben

Both are single-speed plus torque converter. The VH9 was used behind the 6V71 while the VS1 graced the 8V71. ~Ben

Does anyone remember the exact THD variant used in the various North American-specification B10M deliveries (SEPTA, NJ Transit, SamTrans, RIPTA)? As U.S. final assembly and sale of the B10M was between 1983 and 1986, the engines were likely the THD101GC (40 foot) and THD101GD (60 foot). As to the ZF transmission, the 40-foot units used the 4HP500 4-speed unit while the artics had the 5HP500 5-speed (overdrive in 5th) unit. The HP and torque ratings were: THD101GC = 242 hp @ 2200 rpm, 656 lb/ft tq @ 1400 rpm THD101GD = 270 hp @ 2200 rpm, 767 lb/ft tq @ 1400 rpm (actual U.S. ratings may differ) ~Ben

"K factor" is another thing to consider in regards to choosing the correct torque converter. It is arrived at when you divide the governed engine RPM by the square root of the peak torque of the engine. The 6V92TA MUI engine with 7G65 injectors that I mentioned before (253 hp / 766 lb/ft), has a K factor of 75.88. The 6V71TA with N60 injectors (220 hp / 671 lb/ft): K factor at 2100 RPM is 81.07. The 6V71N with 7E60 injectors (200 hp / 583 lb/ft): K factor at 2100 RPM is 86.97. My Cummins examples I mentioned have these K factors: B5.9-190 (190 hp / 475 lb/ft): K factor at 2500 RPM is 114.71. B5.9-210 (210 hp / 485 lb/ft): K factor at 2500 RPM is 113.52. ~Ben

How do I incorporate tables created in Microsoft Excel? ~Ben

http://volvodemort.com/technical/index.html Here's a decent website with some technical info about the variations of the THD engines. ~Ben