King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

[Flippy1205]

Looks like DART #454-455 actually do exist. They are cutaways (they most resemble ARBOC SOLs but have steps up instead of a ramp, with wheelchair access at the back of the vehicle) on a Ford Transit chassis that were ordered for Community Ride, and they were configured specifically for it. They only have eight seats in a 2-1 config, with two dedicated wheelchair spots in the very back of the bus. I rode 455 just now on a 630, and noticed it only had about 700 miles on it, despite being earlier in the numbering system. I just ran the plate (C22277J) and VIN (1FDES6PM0HKA37914) and noticed that it was a 2017 model chassis. As of right now, I suspect it's only being used as a trainer and a driver relief (though Hopelink does that for exactly one block to my knowledge). If anyone can find more information and put 454-455 on the wiki, that would be appreciated!

[Kennys bus drawings]

Supposedly the C line and G line will run out of Ryerson, half of the D line trips will move from Central to Atlantic (but not the E line trips?), and the 3 will get trips with the old 47 summit routing when the G line opens, restoring service to that place. According to newest draft run cards at least.
I would hope that freeing up space at Atlantic would help put trolleys back on the 2 and 13, but for Metro, that would make too much sense. Especially since they're apparently too cheap to get new trolleybuses for the rapidride bus that will eventually replace the 70.

[Express691]

RapidRide J update:

https://seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/transit-program/transit-plus-multimodal-corridor-program/rapidride-roosevelt?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1jMwqX8kZtMti4eF9xK-lky_O4RZme0vjgXG_0cUTcijNF6oUUidzcNdo_aem_AI8hbZH4zEz4ExpNhb3qLg

[LDCY]

On 3/20/2024 at 11:21 PM, aznichiro115 said:

https://cdn.kingcounty.gov/-/media/king-county/depts/metro/documents/projects/zero-emissions-fleet/electrification-onepage.pdf?rev=7ad43f1375254c28884c8e5a0b7c5a89 

2027, planning to get an additional 30. 

So NFI is okay with small trolleybus order now?

[LDCY]

With SR 520 Bridge closed again last weekend, I had this interesting trip last Saturday to take one-seat ride from Mercer Island to U-District by Route 255.

 

There was some very heavy traffic on I-90 WB around the time when Seafair Torchlight parade was going on. Maybe some Route 255's drivers was told not to use HOV lane or maybe they were just not familiar with the route. The bus I boarded stayed at right lane the entire time after re-entering I-90, It was passed by at least two ST buses behind it when it is crossing Lk Washington. By the time we final were on I-5, the driver said he should have been half way back to South Kirkland according to schedule.

It was probably a lot faster if I just took 550/554 and then transferred light rail.

[caseyrs77]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:33 PM, Kennys bus drawings said:

Supposedly the C line and G line will run out of Ryerson, half of the D line trips will move from Central to Atlantic (but not the E line trips?), and the 3 will get trips with the old 47 summit routing when the G line opens, restoring service to that place. According to newest draft run cards at least.
I would hope that freeing up space at Atlantic would help put trolleys back on the 2 and 13, but for Metro, that would make too much sense. Especially since they're apparently too cheap to get new trolleybuses for the rapidride bus that will eventually replace the 70.

Atlantic Base Maintenance is retrofitting all of their buses lifts in the shop, so moving C Line and 2/13 staying at Central, is less coaches to maintain while work in the shop is happening.

40 minutes ago, LDCY said:

With SR 520 Bridge closed again last weekend, I had this interesting trip last Saturday to take one-seat ride from Mercer Island to U-District by Route 255.

 

There was some very heavy traffic on I-90 WB around the time when Seafair Torchlight parade was going on. Maybe some Route 255's drivers was told not to use HOV lane or maybe they were just not familiar with the route. The bus I boarded stayed at right lane the entire time after re-entering I-90, It was passed by at least two ST buses behind it when it is crossing Lk Washington. By the time we final were on I-5, the driver said he should have been half way back to South Kirkland according to schedule.

It was probably a lot faster if I just took 550/554 and then transferred light rail.

I write the reroute for the 255 to service M.I. P&R to allow Kirkland passengers transfer to 550/554 to downtown, rather than riding thru downtown on I-5 all the way to U District, just to get on the train and come back. Same in reverse. Saves Kirkland passengers time. 

271 & 542 don’t stop as those customers have the 545 & 550 to get them downtown.

[Kennys bus drawings]

On 7/30/2024 at 11:22 PM, LDCY said:

With SR 520 Bridge closed again last weekend, I had this interesting trip last Saturday to take one-seat ride from Mercer Island to U-District by Route 255.

 

There was some very heavy traffic on I-90 WB around the time when Seafair Torchlight parade was going on. Maybe some Route 255's drivers was told not to use HOV lane or maybe they were just not familiar with the route. The bus I boarded stayed at right lane the entire time after re-entering I-90, It was passed by at least two ST buses behind it when it is crossing Lk Washington. By the time we final were on I-5, the driver said he should have been half way back to South Kirkland according to schedule.

It was probably a lot faster if I just took 550/554 and then transferred light rail.

I have a video of the 255 on the same reroute a while ago, and at least eastbound, the driver stayed in the HOV lane right until the bridge started to transition to Mercer Island, then took the exit on the right, as the 550 would. Then the 255 enters I90 from a left HOV on ramp, and takes a left HOV ramp to northbound 405. Not doing any of that and staying in the general purpose lanes/exits would probably contribute to getting stuck in traffic. There is another HOV ramp going the other direction, from southbound 405 to the left of I90, but after Mercer Island, the 255 drivers probably wouldn't bother going towards the HOV lane since they take the general purpose on ramp (like the 550) and take the exit on the right to 405.

I wish I could've had an oppurtunity to ride the brief 550 reroute that was recent, where the 550 had to be rerouted onto SR 520 because of some closure on I-90, but that only affected a few trips in the middle of the night.

[LDCY]

 

On 7/31/2024 at 12:03 AM, caseyrs77 said:

Atlantic Base Maintenance is retrofitting all of their buses lifts in the shop, so moving C Line and 2/13 staying at Central, is less coaches to maintain while work in the shop is happening.

I write the reroute for the 255 to service M.I. P&R to allow Kirkland passengers transfer to 550/554 to downtown, rather than riding thru downtown on I-5 all the way to U District, just to get on the train and come back. Same in reverse. Saves Kirkland passengers time. 

271 & 542 don’t stop as those customers have the 545 & 550 to get them downtown.

 

That was a nice addition to M.I. and I agree it is unnecessary for 542 and 271 to do the same..

Was that a recent change? I don't remember seeing 255 at M.I. P&R on June 15-16th closure, but maybe I just didn't notice.

On Saturday of July's closure, it probably took Kirkland passengers 40+ minutes to get to U-District. I felt bad for those who had some business to attend on this route on that weekend. It is ridiculous how many 520 closures scheduled for this summer..

[caseyrs77]

I’ve been using M.I. and the transfer option to 550/554 every closure for about two years

1 hour ago, LDCY said:

 

 

That was a nice addition to M.I. and I agree it is unnecessary for 542 and 271 to do the same..

Was that a recent change? I don't remember seeing 255 at M.I. P&R on June 15-16th closure, but maybe I just didn't notice.

On Saturday of July's closure, it probably took Kirkland passengers 40+ minutes to get to U-District. I felt bad for those who had some business to attend on this route on that weekend. It is ridiculous how many 520 closures scheduled for this summer..

I’ve been using the M.I. Routing for the 255 and the option to transfer to/from 550 & 554, every closure for about two years now

[PNWTransit]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:33 PM, Kennys bus drawings said:

Supposedly the C line and G line will run out of Ryerson, half of the D line trips will move from Central to Atlantic (but not the E line trips?), and the 3 will get trips with the old 47 summit routing when the G line opens, restoring service to that place. According to newest draft run cards at least.
I would hope that freeing up space at Atlantic would help put trolleys back on the 2 and 13, but for Metro, that would make too much sense. Especially since they're apparently too cheap to get new trolleybuses for the rapidride bus that will eventually replace the 70.

the D line will use the Atlantic DE60LFR fleet and drivers but they will actually park in the Central Base lot, while they do work in the Atlantic part of the base

[southsoundtransit]

Figured id drop in with some news about the DART fleet. They are finally getting new coaches! 2023/2024 Ford/ARBOC SOL #300 entered service recently, and I was able to nab it on the 917.

I'm making the slightly sourced assumption that these will replace some 100 series (Ford/StarTrans) units, as when I used to use the 915 Daily, a driver I slightly knew told me that Hopelink was planning on replacing the 100's as they were having transmission issues. Not sure the validity of this, but I also haven't seen any of those 200 series Ford/Glaval Concorde II units in a long while, so maybe these are replacing those? Not sure, but it was fun riding this one! Now I kind of want to catch one again.

[Flippy1205]

On 7/9/2024 at 7:00 PM, Flippy1205 said:

Looks like DART #454-455 actually do exist. They are cutaways (they most resemble ARBOC SOLs but have steps up instead of a ramp, with wheelchair access at the back of the vehicle) on a Ford Transit chassis that were ordered for Community Ride, and they were configured specifically for it. They only have eight seats in a 2-1 config, with two dedicated wheelchair spots in the very back of the bus. I rode 455 just now on a 630, and noticed it only had about 700 miles on it, despite being earlier in the numbering system. I just ran the plate (C22277J) and VIN (1FDES6PM0HKA37914) and noticed that it was a 2017 model chassis. As of right now, I suspect it's only being used as a trainer and a driver relief (though Hopelink does that for exactly one block to my knowledge). If anyone can find more information and put 454-455 on the wiki, that would be appreciated!

Mystery solved! I went over to Ellensburg to ride on Central Transit, and they have the exact same bus model operating in their Kittitas County Connector fleet. Turns out, they're just very short Glaval Commutes with a Ford Transit chassis.

[southsoundtransit]

19 hours ago, southsoundtransit said:

Figured id drop in with some news about the DART fleet. They are finally getting new coaches! 2023/2024 Ford/ARBOC SOL #300 entered service recently, and I was able to nab it on the 917.

I'm making the slightly sourced assumption that these will replace some 100 series (Ford/StarTrans) units, as when I used to use the 915 Daily, a driver I slightly knew told me that Hopelink was planning on replacing the 100's as they were having transmission issues. Not sure the validity of this, but I also haven't seen any of those 200 series Ford/Glaval Concorde II units in a long while, so maybe these are replacing those? Not sure, but it was fun riding this one! Now I kind of want to catch one again.

I was right! Hopelink has retired the 200 Series Ford/Glaval Concorde units. Spotted one all the way out in Grays Harbor Transit territory just now while riding the 60 to Ocean Shores. Couldn’t grab a photo so I had to settle for a lucky shot on street view.
 

ex-270.

 

 

[Flippy1205]

20 hours ago, Flippy1205 said:

Mystery solved! I went over to Ellensburg to ride on Central Transit, and they have the exact same bus model operating in their Kittitas County Connector fleet. Turns out, they're just very short Glaval Commutes with a Ford Transit chassis.

...Or not! So, it looks like those buses are StarTrans Candidate IIs. Why does Forest River have to make buses that are virtually identical?

[Flippy1205]

Has anyone here pointed out that since the start of the year, almost every Xcelsior and Gillig from Atlantic, Central, Ryerson, North, Bellevue, and (KCM Only) East Bases has been equipped with back-door ORCA readers? Most drivers still prefer loading from the front, but they won't yell at you for it.

 

However, at South Base, only some of the Gilligs are getting rear-door ORCA readers. The new XE40s and XE60s have "do not enter" decals on their rear doors and specifically don't have rear-door readers. Anyone know why that is? I have some theories, but they may be a little much for a transit forum.

[edit]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:31 PM, Flippy1205 said:

Has anyone here pointed out that since the start of the year, almost every Xcelsior and Gillig from Atlantic, Central, Ryerson, North, Bellevue, and (KCM Only) East Bases has been equipped with back-door ORCA readers? Most drivers still prefer loading from the front, but they won't yell at you for it.

 

However, at South Base, only some of the Gilligs are getting rear-door ORCA readers. The new XE40s and XE60s have "do not enter" decals on their rear doors and specifically don't have rear-door readers. Anyone know why that is? I have some theories, but they may be a little much for a transit forum.

On some XDE35s they have also been getting rear-door orca readers. The only bus I have seen it so far in was 3711 hopefully they will soon be adding it to the other buses in the XDE35 fleet.

[southsoundtransit]

Yeah… now that they’ve taken out the chargers at Eastgate it seems, I’m 99% sure the 4600’s are officially done for. Good riddance. They already killed the 2015’s, they’ve been sitting at Bellevue Base rotting for a while. A few months ago they knocked out the 2018’s, and yeah. 

[edit]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:06 AM, southsoundtransit said:

Yeah… now that they’ve taken out the chargers at Eastgate it seems, I’m 99% sure the 4600’s are officially done for. Good riddance. They already killed the 2015’s, they’ve been sitting at Bellevue Base rotting for a while. A few months ago they knocked out the 2018’s, and yeah. 

What a waste of money, I get it was partly not the fault of KCM because of the alleged parts they could not get to maintain them however a bus should not be in service only 6 years.

[Kennys bus drawings]

 

Forgot to post these images of the G line on a training thing, not sure if I've complained here yet about the non frameless windows breaking the trend of frameless windows on rapidride. And if they're the same kind as a normal 2015 or 2016 xcelsior here, with the dual layer plastic, especially on a "high traffic" route they'll break, get scratched up and eventually fogged up on the inside. Unless, for some reason, they went with non frameless normal glass. That would be a bit more acceptable.

[LDCY]

First day of G Line service.

.

[Express691]

Was attending the G-line opening day and the whole rollout just went sideways from the get-go. The pilot bus bottomed out turning right onto Spring street around 11:30am causing an annoying detour, and various units had issues with their GPS. Not to mention, some drivers had issues opening their left side doors. Buses ran in bunches of two to three despite frequency being every 6 minutes throughout the day.

They expect the buses to complete a round trip in 35-ish minutes with a singular layover area along Madison, but with the amount of red lights especially downtown, that looks hard to pull off. Not to mention, ops have to take the u-turn downtown really slow to make sure they don’t bottom out.

On Sundays there will be 4 trips/hour. I think this will be a better frequency, 6 trips/hour max.

[jay8g]

Yeah, it was definitely a bit of a disappointment. Sound Transit has opening day service down to a science... apparently that's not true for Metro.

I noticed that the drivers were taking all of the intersections up and down the hill in downtown super slow to avoid bottoming out (which added quite a bit of time compared to the schedule), and quite frustratingly, a lot of the queue jumps seemed to be doing more harm than good by holding the bus to allow cars through. The latter issue may well resolve itself as drivers realize it's quicker to merge out of the bus lanes when traffic isn't super heavy, but I definitely think the schedule seems overly optimistic.

Also, the live-loop nature of the route means that the real-time arrival signs downtown in the outbound direction don't really work, showing scheduled arrivals until just before the bus shows up, which isn't very helpful when the buses aren't even remotely running on schedule.

One of the bigger problems with the G Line is that it can only use its unique fleet, so adding service would require buying more special buses. That means that adding run time to the schedule to help with reliability won't be possible without cutting something else, presumably frequency. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the 6-minute frequency slip to 8 or 10 minutes eventually to help with reliability.

All of those "Reliable starts with a G" ads felt rather ironic with everything that was happening on day 1...

On 9/5/2024 at 5:05 PM, Kennys bus drawings said:

Forgot to post these images of the G line on a training thing, not sure if I've complained here yet about the non frameless windows breaking the trend of frameless windows on rapidride. And if they're the same kind as a normal 2015 or 2016 xcelsior here, with the dual layer plastic, especially on a "high traffic" route they'll break, get scratched up and eventually fogged up on the inside. Unless, for some reason, they went with non frameless normal glass. That would be a bit more acceptable.

Seems like they're the same windows as the non-RapidRide XDE60s. We'll see how they hold up, but personally, I don't mind the lack of frameless windows -- the frameless ones often get annoyingly rattly.

[edit]

I was talking to one of the drivers today who was driving the route for the first time. To answer some of the questions about them bottoming I overheard that all ops are required to take all downtown intersections at 5 MPH. The driver we talked to did not seem happy about the time tables as he talked about the person that planned the route does not even have a CDL and just works an office job. The person that he talked to that helped plan the G wanted it to "run like a train" however the driver was optimistic that it would run like a train because buses are slow.

I have to say though I am impressed with the buses they did have a rocky start with the whole GPS issue however I really like the seats they are more padded then the regular seats on other XDE60s.

[LDCY]

I noticed that at intersections where G Line has center-running bus lane and TSP, signals gave general-public lane(s) green light first and then transit signal let G Line go. I am not sure it is how TSP’s suppose to work. Maybe signal techs are still working on them.
 

When bike signal at 110th Ave at NE 8th (Downtown Bellevue) was installed earlier this year, it took at least a month for the bike signal finally worked..

[Kennys bus drawings]

Yea, I'd hope signal priority issues along a rapidride line won't last long...