OPUS/Magnetic Card Discussion

[Tranzit]

They showed it to the driver. That's what I would have done if I was in your place.

Yes, of course, I did think of just showing the ticket/transfer to the driver, but I obviously erroneously assumed that the validator would have taken into consideration the fact that I was on the same route going in the same direction within the 2-hour grace-period.

Clearly I was wrong to assume that, but does this mean this particular "same-route transfering" will be standard procedure or will this "glitch" be dealt with in future by programming the validators to recognize it and not double-charge you? More ammunition in my favour regarding only considering the grace-period and nothing else.

Remember: we are all still "guinea pigs" here, as clearly are many within the STM staff--drivers included.

This would be a good idea, except most people would just throw them on the floor, creating more litter, and it would defeat the one of the purposes of having a smart card which is the saving of paper aspect.

Excellent point: except remember that down there, Fare Inspectors ask you for those receipts, so most passenges hold onto them

I'd say depending on both. Since the card is to be introduced gradually across the island, I would expect that those boarding in areas not yet adorned with active equipment, will still receive the red arrow cards, and if the bus is equipped and running in a section of town where the implementation is underway, they might receive the giant ID badge transfer.

Not to mention the fact that if your bus driver hands you the new ticket/transfer card and then you enter a Metro station where their turnstiles are not yet plugged in to receive them, I assume you then simply show your ticket to the changeur.

I got my OPUS employee card earlier this week and I made sure to make good usage of it this week. I never had any problems with it. I used it at Longueuil, McGill, Saint-Laurent, Langelier and Bonaventure metro stations. I also took many RTL buses (none of them had the reader ready) and STM 55 Saint-Laurent route on a 23 series, I should have waited, the bus behind was 11-008. Everytime I used it the yellow light on the reader came on, this means I have to show the picture side of my OPUS card to the changeur or bus driver.

While shopping at Pharmaprix yesterday I found out that they do not give points when you buy tickets or passes!!! However there's a way around it, you just have to buy a gift card for the amount you need to spend on your tickets or pass and then use this gift card to make you purchase

Tristan, is there some way I can "jump the line" and load my OPUS card with a month's worth of fares and not only with "6-jetons"?

I've been told that this will only be possible in November, but if it's only a matter of programming the vending machines to do this, I can only assume that you as an STM employee already have this option somewhere else?

Am I right?

[SMS]

Remember: we are all still "guinea pigs" here, as clearly are many within the STM staff--drivers included.

What does the STM care! They get on for butt effin nothing anyhow! All they have to do is whip out their employee ID.

[Tranzit]

What does the STM care! They get on for butt effin nothing anyhow! All they have to do is whip out their employee ID.

Thanks for giving me the idea whereby I could overlay a photo ID on the back of my OPUS card and flash it before the driver.

Needless to say, if I get caught, I'll simply mention you as the source.

[Tranzit]

Perfect drizzly day to kill scouting out the system. Few people about, so busses were mostly empty.

The new bus farebox-validators were malfunctioning left and right today. The first one refused to pull my ticket all the way into the slot. Tried it three times, leaving a nasty smudge on the ticket so the driver waved me aboard.

Later got on an eastbound 15 at Bleury at 14:15, taking it to Berri Metro; went through the turnstile and boarded the Yellow Line to J-Drapeau Metro.

From there, I got on the Casino-bound 167 by mistake, but remained on board and returned to the 167 La Ronde-bound bus. Saw some 167X busses parked there, too. Still relatively few people, except for the casino-bound suckers.

Okay, so the validator of this La Ronde-bound 167 didn't light up either green or red--just yellow! What the hell? Driver waves me aboard.

Arrive La Ronde and walk straight through the drizzle to the 169. Got on board and farebox lights up green, accepting my ticket!--all still well within the 2-hour grace period, of course, and back across the JCB, putting to rest the erroneous notion that you can't rebound back across the river on a single ticket/transfer from here. Try it, you'll like it!

Wait--I'm not through yet!

Arrived Papineau Metro and with the same ticket/transfer, boarded the 15 again, rebounding back to Cabot Square where I then boarded HEV 28-703 on route 90 with its malfunctioning validator (waved aboard again!) and continued on to Vendome Metro, etc.

Hmmm...I wonder how many tourists have been enjoying their free rides these days, what with all the screwy validators! Spread the word: tourists welcome aboard!

[SMS]

So much about GFI new boxes bought with the intention of hoping to stop people from defrauding the system!

You, sir, are no better than a common thief!

[Tranzit]

So much about GFI new boxes bought with the intention of hoping to stop people from defrauding the system!

You, sir, are no better than a common thief!

A "thief" indeed! Surely you jest?

As if: 1) I (or any other passenger for that matter) am to blame for malfunctioning equipment?

As if: 2) The drivers are upset? In fact, they seem to be taking it all in stride very well. After all: it's not their fault.

As if: 3) I (or any other passenger) could possibly know in advance which validators on which busses are problematic.

As if: 4) The STM wasn't fully prepared for some equipment breakdowns in this learning period--hence the step-by-step implementation.

As if: 5) Everyone in this forum hasn't been made aware of these potential glitches months ago?

And what about all of the passengers who have already been double-ticketed--many of whom never realized it? So who is the thief?

[SMS]

Sure I'm joking, just like when you indicated you'd cite me as a source in post #228... what a reaction... geesh

[Tranzit]

CAM = Reliable. Magnetic card = SCAM

I choose CAM over SCAM!

Heh, heh...so who's the luddite in this forum, eh?

[SMS]

I've been called worse things by better people - P.E. Trudeau

And now back to the magic boxes that everyone loves...

[Tranzit]

Latest OPUS Smart Card news:

Today an STM assistant at Viau Metro told me that OPUS card holders can already load their cards for up to three months worth of fares--in other words, you can load your usual monthly CAM pass into it, for one, two, or three months!

As expected, however, there will be no discount offered as an incentive.

[tristan]

I used my Opus card today on many buses and had one little problem. I took the 90 at Vendome Métro on 17-091, when I put my card on the reader the light went red. On the screen it said invalid card, the driver let me in when I showed my picture on the other side of the card. Are all card readers in operation on all STM buses? I ask this because at RTL not all buses have the reader ready.

[Tranzit]

I used my Opus card today on many buses and had one little problem. I took the 90 at Vendome Métro on 17-091, when I put my card on the reader the light went red. On the screen it said invalid card, the driver let me in when I showed my picture on the other side of the card. Are all card readers in operation on all STM buses? I ask this because at RTL not all buses have the reader ready.

Did you check to see if your "6 jetons" had been used up? Or do you have a month's worth of fares?

Then possibly that bus's validator was defective. It has been happening quite often--as expected.

By the way, does the validator really say "fraud" on its readout?

What it really ought to say is "expiration". Fraud is a controversial word to use, as in most cases, passengers whose cards are depleted are not intentionally evading payment.

Everyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

[SMS]

He's a driver so his OPUS is good for free travel over 5 (or is it 8) AMT Zones.

[Tranzit]

He's a driver so his OPUS is good for free travel over 5 (or is it 8) AMT Zones.

Which makes perfect sense, but I can only assume that the OPUS cards of STM employees can be programmed with alternative codes different than the rest of us hoi poloi have access to, like the "back doors" that programmers build into systems to allow smooth access in the event of gremlins and bugs.

Theoretically, a cyber whiz could then program his own card for seven years of free travel until the card itself allegedly must be replaced.

But on the other hand, if STM employees' OPUS cards need only the photo ID to permit free access, then why bother loading it with fares in the first place?

[dj.surf.lfs]

But on the other hand, if STM employees' OPUS cards need only the photo ID to permit free access, then why bother loading it with fares in the first place?

That's exactly what I thought about the STO's smart card system, if you have to show the driver your photo ID, why even bother having smart card in the first place??

[mtltransitguy]

Which makes perfect sense, but I can only assume that the OPUS cards of STM employees can be programmed with alternative codes different than the rest of us hoi poloi have access to, like the "back doors" that programmers build into systems to allow smooth access in the event of gremlins and bugs.

Theoretically, a cyber whiz could then program his own card for seven years of free travel until the card itself allegedly must be replaced.

But on the other hand, if STM employees' OPUS cards need only the photo ID to permit free access, then why bother loading it with fares in the first place?

That's exactly what I thought about the STO's smart card system, if you have to show the driver your photo ID, why even bother having smart card in the first place??

Well, how then would they know what is loaded onto it?

The flashing of the picture is the second barrier, eliminate one, and you only have a one barrier system.

They have reasons, don't worry, it's not totally pointless. People could make fake driver cards, so reading it will reveal that, if a "fake driver" gets caught with an inspector, they are done for, but if it's only the picture, then there is no way of getting them.

[SMS]

Tristan's in a better position to comment but they all have photo IDs on the back and indicate which company he works for. The thing goes yellow, which is akin to reduced fare, meaning one needs to show ID. If I remember correctly his OPUS is good till 2015.

[kellergraham]

But on the other hand, if STM employees' OPUS cards need only the photo ID to permit free access, then why bother loading it with fares in the first place?

So technical problems can be worked out before the paying public is involved

[Tranzit]

Tristan's in a better position to comment but they all have photo IDs on the back and indicate which company he works for. The thing goes yellow, which is akin to reduced fare, meaning one needs to show ID. If I remember correctly his OPUS is good till 2015.

Yes, the existing OPUS cards are valid until 2015. STM employees' cards have that date marked on the back.

Not sure whether this is due to the "life expectancy" of the chip itself or some other reason.

It would be essential for such smart cards to be readable by a validator in order to prevent counterfeiting. Obviously it would be much easier to manufacture fake photo ID and credit-card-type plastic cards without an embedded chip.

Still, these RFID chips do have vulnerabilities--as has already been proven by hackers.

Strangely enough, the magnetic strip type, bank debit cards are amazingly durable. I remember in the early days around '87-'88 the banks would issue new cards to account holders much more often than in recent years, and even previously soggy bus and Metro tickets can retain their magnetic information after drying out.

[Tranzit]

Henri-Bourassa Metro now has its vending machines in operation, both the large and the smaller version side-by-side.

I couldn't resist sliding my Auckland Smart Card into the reader to see what would happen, and bingo, to my surprise, the machine asked me how I wanted to load it up!

Presumably then--if I felt inclined to do so--using cash, or a credit or debit card to pay, I could load from 6 tokens all the way up to 3 months worth onto it and I wouldn't be defrauding the system since I'd have the receipt to prove it.

The only unaswered question: how or if such a card would be tracked in the network? Would it show up as "XXXX" on some screen somewhere down at HQ, or not even register at all, and would the person seeing it go into a tizzy wondering what the hell that was all about. An interesting, indeed fascinating scenario.

I'm almost tempted to ask the "Blue Box" guys to let me try it out and see what happens. The results would doubtless prove very informative for all.

[cprail]

Opus is member of the Calypso Networks Association (http://www.calypsonet-asso.org/), so I suppose you can use your opus with the other system around the world as well.

[Tranzit]

Opus is member of the Calypso Networks Association (http://www.calypsonet-asso.org/), so I suppose you can use your opus with the other system around the world as well.

Good to know.

Slogging through all of the wikipedia pages regarding such cards can be very time-consuming, what with all of the various standards which exist.

Somehow, though, I don't think it would be worth the potential grief having to explain oneself, if confronted, when using a card different from that which you are supposed to use.

Funny how Hong Kong has Octopus while ours is merely Opus!

Put a tiger in your puss!

[mtltransitguy]

Good to know.

Slogging through all of the wikipedia pages regarding such cards can be very time-consuming, what with all of the various standards which exist.

Somehow, though, I don't think it would be worth the potential grief having to explain oneself, if confronted, when using a card different from that which you are supposed to use.

Funny how Hong Kong has Octopus while ours is merely Opus!

Put a tiger in your puss!

Excuse me?

Give me your card, I'll load it up ad travel with it. There isn't a thing to explain, it works, use it. If they went and built it with such functions, and decided to do so with ours, then why shouldn't you do as you please with it!?

You don't need any authorization to do that, the guys in that booth aren't really anything special from what I can see, and just get paid to do nothing all day for now....

[kellergraham]

OPUS Equipment has just been installed at Montpellier Commuter Train station (photos to follow). To my knowledge, Montpellier is the first station to get the new equipment (again).

Alex

[Tranzit]

Excuse me?

Give me your card, I'll load it up ad travel with it. There isn't a thing to explain, it works, use it. If they went and built it with such functions, and decided to do so with ours, then why shouldn't you do as you please with it!?

You don't need any authorization to do that, the guys in that booth aren't really anything special from what I can see, and just get paid to do nothing all day for now....

No, what I'm saying is that should STM officials notice that someone is using a smart card other than the official OPUS card, they could easily assume that fare-evasion was the motive--despite the fact they had legitimately loaded up the card with fares. They might also assume that different smart cards could possibly load up fares somewhat differently--as in an "extended time frame" beyond what the regular OPUS card allows.

This is a grey area: sort of like when you use Canadian coins in U.S. vending machines or telephone booths. There are signs cautioning you not to, even though our currency cannot be considered as slugs.

I would have to be a tech whiz with a lot of time on my hands in order to learn what such "errant" cards are capable of from transit system to transit system, but basically, I have no interest in running up against some transit employee who is just looking for an excuse to put a feather in his cap.

Information such as this is fun to discover, but not worth the potential bother.