Thunder Bay Transit

[dj.surf.lfs]

It's either 114 or 119. I got a closer look today (sat on the other side of the bus, and squinted!) and it's definitely a Newflyer, and I'm 99.9% sure it's got a 11_ number.

Where did the Vs go, anyway?

probably

[dj.surf.lfs]

124 on HS Extra. Haven't seen a single non-D40LF bus today.

The schedule for #5 South Neebing is now in print. As expected, they made a crappy one that looked like a piece of scrap paper with no map on it (as expected). At lease combine the schedule with Neebing/Mission and make it nice-looking... :angry:

[vid]

Those maps have been available since mid-March, they just aren't very abundant. The route is a pilot project so it doesn't make sense to spend a bunch of money printing up new maps, especially if it won't be around for long. Those maps in some cases will stay the same for about 1-3 years (I think the longest run most recently was the 8/9/11 map, it went from mid 2005 to late 2007 without an update, then was updated last month when they extended 9) and do cost money to print. If SNeeb becomes a permanent route, then they will likely add it to the 4/6 map. This is the same reason they haven't added it to the system map--they don't want to spend the money adding something that might not exist in 6 months. Unusual though that they would exclude the map. All of that is in the PDFs, and they're just printing off the PDFs. The maps themselves are a different file, but it's the same thing, just reorganized.

I saw 122 out of service heading north on Memorial earlier, just around 12:50, so it was probably the one that ran on 5 South Neebing as it ended it's first run about 5 minutes before that. I also saw 116, 118, 121, 122, 123, and 125. I took the Mainline Westfort today for the first time, which is where I saw 118 running route 6. (So it was likely also running 4). I can't remember what number 2 Crosstown Westfort was, but it was a newflyer as well (with an LED sign). And around Brown Street, the driver called in something wrong with his sign (123) and that was repaired at Brodie but I don't know what it was. It's also an LED sign.

I'm almost finished my map! I started over again (I think this is the 5th time?), experimenting with new ways to display routes. It's taking me longer to make bus routes than it is to make the base map, and you'll laugh about that when you see the base map! (I'll share that too; I made an altered version for the routes so it won't be as pretty, as it's focusing on bus routes and not land use). I've also been trying to make individual route maps, but couldn't really get the right look (it was based off the ones in Melbourne) but I think I'll try again with a slightly different approach.

[dj.surf.lfs]

Can't wait to see your map

Forgot to post this... but 145 had a bit of technical trouble yesterday which required the bus to restart once and caused a 5-10 minute delay on the Memorial.

118 on HS Extra today. Usually it's a roll desto unit... The driver was complaining about people playing with the side roll desto yesterday...

[vid]

Is there anything in the side desto? They never use it.

I noticed something rather funny on the bus map, which will give you a clue as to how long it's existed (at least the base).

Look at James Street between Gordon and Frederica. That is what James Street was called when that stretch was a little alleyway running along the CN line on it's approach to the swing bridge. The city built that stretch of James in the early 90s, which is why 8 James (formerly 8 Walsh) doesn't go to Westfort, why no other buses go down that part of James besides Neebing which is a relatively new route. (Back when it started, it would avoid going through Westfort; it left Brodie and went straight down Arthur and through Neebing until it got to Westfort, then it went the other way back to Brodie, twice a day iirc, like Sneeb does; Neebing 10 Via Broadway and Neebing 10 Via Arthur. When the service was cut it became Victoria; then Victoria was cut; Crosstown moved to Victoria Ave, and 12 was sent up to the Health Unit to compensate; that's also about the time 16 was dropped, and replaced by 2-Crosstown Westfort. In the late late 90s, all the routes were renumbered and changed a bit--the most radical change to the bus routes in my lifetime--and 4, 5, 6, 13, 15, and 16 were unused. That's why Neebing and it's friends got 4, 5, and 6 instead of something higher.) I wish I had something older than 2000, I wanna know how McComber really went, and what 12 North End was. And buses have never gone down the angled part of Balmoral street. I think that's weird. I'm pretty sure the street car went through there? Also from the 90s: Buses arriving or leaving from the terminal every 5 minutes! Routes 1, 2, and 3 were 5 minutes or 10 minutes off from the other buses arriving, so you always had to wait at the terminal, but not for long. The bad side -- service ended at 10:45.

Still working on the map. I just had to tell you about that. I'm only noticing it now.

==

Also, if I can have your opinion, which numbering system do you prefer? :

1N Mainline Current River

1S Mainline Westfort

1X Mainline Extra

2N Crosstown Water St

2S Crosstown Brodie Street

2W Mainline Westfort

3N Memorial Water

3S Memorial Brodie

3J Memorial Jumbo Gardens

3C Memorial County Park

3A Memorial Airport

Where there is a route number and then a letter to indicate a branch; the letter is typically N, S, W, E, X, or the first letter of the area served. (This is similar to Duluth's system)

or

11 Mainline Current River

12 Mainline Westfort

13 (or 1X) Mainline Extra

21 Crosstown Water St

22 Crosstown Brodie Street

23 Mainline Westfort

31 Memorial Water

32 Memorial Brodie

33 Memorial Jumbo Gardens

34 Memorial County Park

35 Memorial Airport

where there is a route number and then a number (or letter) to indicate a branch (this is what I was using until this morning when I removed all the numbers)

or

101 Mainline Current River

102 Mainline Westfort

111 or 112 (or 1X) Mainline Extra

201 Crosstown Water St

202 Crosstown Brodie Street

211 Mainline Westfort

301 Memorial Water

302 Memorial Brodie

311 Memorial Jumbo Gardens

312 Memorial County Park

321 Memorial Airport

where there is a route number with a middle number describing service level (or whatever) and then a last digit describing branch or direction. (Not sure which cities use this, if any.)

I have routes but I can't settle on what to call them, so I'll let you pick whichever you think is logical or propose your own. I've completely abandoned the current numbering and naming scheme (I'm using current routes just as an example). I have 9 routes (48 routes in total, both regular service and other), I don't really want to go into 10. All other routes (which aren't regular service) are marked with letters as their first digit.

Also, I've considered a bus route to McIntyre area (terminus at County Fair, heading out on Dawson, left to Government, left to Community Hall, left to John Street Road, left to Sunflower, right to Hutton Park, left to Valley, right to Fassina, right to Dawson, return to County Fair) but haven't made a final decision. What do you think? (I'm considering future growth in this plan; to what extent, you'll find out eventually.)

[dj.surf.lfs]

The first one looks simple and nice. I think Grand River Transit had something similar to that one.

Wait, you have 48 routes? Or do you mean 48 buses.

The McIntyre service looks great, but instead of Dawson>Gov't, I think it would be better if you change it to Dawson>Alice>Gov't. Also it would be nice if you extend it all the way to Gov't/Townline (yeah, i know, it's a waste of money.)

They should also do something with the roads, Government Road was horrible the last time I drove on that road.

P.S. they have side roll destos, some of them just don't work because the battery's dead.

[vid]

I'll go with the first one then.

There are 20 to 25 "regular service" routes, and about 18 to 23 "other routes". 48 was a higher estimate. Most of the others are various shuttles of sorts and won't operate for long periods of time and even most of the routes are interlined. They could probably pull it off with about 45 40ft buses, 2 to 5 30ft buses and a handful (say 8 to 12) of cutaways. Peterborough has something called Transcab, which is a cab that drops you off at a transfer point; Similar to dial-a-bus but with cars instead of buses.

Waste of money? Well this stuff is set in the future so who cares? Maybe money will be available then?

Good to know they're keeping on top of maintenance there. The last thing we need is a bus that tells us where it's going!

[dj.surf.lfs]

http://www.thunderbay.ca/TendersDoc/1441/E...-%20CJ%20Ad.pdf

Does this mean that they were planning transit service to McIntyre as well ??

[vid]

Yup. The city conducted a poll last spring to see what the general consensus was in rural areas regarding whether or not there should be any transit in rural areas. Residents of both South Neebing and McIntyre voted no, but we got South Neebing anyway.

Surveys find little interest in bus service

Ward Holland | The Chronicle-Journal | Saturday, June 16, 2007

Thunder Bay Transit has sent out surveys to residents in outlying neighbourhoods to find out if they want city bus service.

About 2,800 surveys were sent out to residents in the Neebing and McIntyre wards in May and about 400 of the them have been returned to Transit head office.

So far, the surveys that have been returned indicate residents have little interest in the buses.

“To date, basically, there‘s not really a real desire for it,” Transit‘s planning and marketing manager Dave Stephens said last week.

“The majority are saying they don‘t want the transit service and they don‘t want their taxes increased.”

The people who live in the outlying areas of Thunder Bay – like Neebing and McIntyre – don‘t pay a dedicated transit tax because they don‘t get transit buses.

If transit service was reinstated, they would have to pay for it. For example, a person with a $100,000 home would pay about $100 in extra taxes, Stephens said.

In the past few years, the South Neebing and McIntyre transit routes were discontinued. Those two areas didn‘t have full service, Stephens said. Rather, buses went out there about four times a day.

“Then ridership got so low they were just discontinued,” Stephens said.

Thunder Bay Transit‘s criteria is for at least 10 passengers per hour. Once it drops below that amount, Transit‘s mandate is to discontinue service.

Neebing Coun. Linda Rydholm said she has gotten a couple of telephone calls from people who have said they don‘t want to pay dedicated transit taxes.

Rydholm said there could be about six to 10 people in Neebing who want transit service reinstated, but there could be as many as a few hundred who don‘t want it or the extra taxes.

“It‘ll be interesting to see what kind of responses the city has gotten,” she said.

The official results for the survey will likely be in by the end of June, Stephens said.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories.php?id=49290

It's good to know that the city listens to the polls it conducts! Although this wasn't the official result. I have no idea where those are. And it has been 35 days since they started the NextBus demo and it's still only showing those four routes.

===

3 Memorial-Water St and 3 Memorial-Brodie Street are running again, so between terminals until 9pm route 3 has a 20 minute frequency instead of 40 minutes. Mainline Extra was running slow today, so for a while we had a 20 second headway between buses, albeit only between two buses.

[dj.surf.lfs]

Something BIG has happened!!!!!!!! They've installed the NxtBus electric display sign at Lakehead University!!!! THIS IS BIG!!!! The other five signs will be installed in the next few weeks, and the signs will only display times for the current NextBus routes until it's fully introduced. Can't wait to see it working!!

[vid]

They'd better hurry up and get the rest of the routes on that thing, then. This is day 36 of the trial.

[dj.surf.lfs]

Just went to Lakehead University to see the new sign. It's already working now. The new sign is capable of displaying up to 8 bus routes, one of them was used for rider alert and messages. It displayed the current time and route names, and beside the route displayed minutes and seconds until the next bus arrives. (e.g. 2-Water Terminal 9,43)

[vid]

Fancy.

It's a good thing you got a picture of it so we can add that to the wiki article. (hint hint)

I'm almost finished my maps, but I appear to have deleted the other route information, so I'm going to have to re-do that one. If we're lucky, it could be finished by tomorrow.

And then I will never do it again.

[dj.surf.lfs]

No photos yet I forgot my camera yesterday so I'll have to go there again on the weekend.

[BusMaxx]

I was just curious, but is this NextBus system similar to what YRT/VIVA uses at the vivastations??

[dj.surf.lfs]

I was just curious, but is this NextBus system similar to what YRT/VIVA uses at the vivastations??

It's exactly like the YRT/VIVA system, except the screen is much bigger (It's gigantic!) and displays every route once it's fully activated. You'll see once I get a photo of it.

[BusMaxx]

It's exactly like the YRT/VIVA system, except the screen is much bigger (It's gigantic!) and displays every route once it's fully activated. You'll see once I get a photo of it.

I just wonder why they didnt put bigger ones (i presume) that you have up when they started, being that they now use the GPS for both YRT and VIVA....... or maybe that should be plaaced in another thread??

[vid]

Will the sign at LU display information for all routes? Because only 2 and 9 go in there. :\

I was hoping they would somehow incorporate a digital map into it.

[dj.surf.lfs]

Kamuchaka!

It's only the second day in service and already gone crazy.

And yes, you can use the photo for the wiki article. (You forgot to ASK, didn't you, vid?)

[vid]

Haha, it looks so empty! And upload it yourself. The copyright paranoia feinds will spaz out if I do it.

I made a thread about the liveries and it pissed off a lot of people. So I cleaned it up. You missed the punditry. But you can still vote!

And now, the transit maps. I was going to make them more detailed but I decided not to because it was getting too big and some stuff was buggy, so I left it at the basics. Click here for a basic route table. Maps are attached below.

1_Monday_to_Friday_0600_to_2200.pdf

2_Saturday_0600_to_2200.pdf

3_Monday_to_Saturday_2200_to_0100.pdf

4_Sunday_0700_to_2200.pdf

5_Other_Routes.pdf

[dj.surf.lfs]

Haha, it looks so empty! And upload it yourself. The copyright paranoia feinds will spaz out if I do it.

I made a thread about the liveries and it pissed off a lot of people. So I cleaned it up. You missed the punditry. But you can still vote!

And now, the transit maps. I was going to make them more detailed but I decided not to because it was getting too big and some stuff was buggy, so I left it at the basics. Click here for a basic route table. Maps are attached below.

Oh, you mean that thread that 90% of the people (as of 8:45 ET) voted for the new lively? Yeah, I know, I'm just bugging you.

As for the maps, all I can say is you've got a lot of things going in your mind.

PS I hereby grant you permission to upload my photo (^that one, two posts above) on wiki because I'm too lazy and I can't remember my password. hehe

[vid]

Make another profile then. The bureaucracy required to upload a photo taken by someone else is more tedious than starting a new account. Trust me.

[dj.surf.lfs]

all right all right. 'm uploading it right now... pleazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wait...

uploaded.

[vid]

I'm working on re-arranging the page so that things fit better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vidioman/TBT

I'm going to look into historical pictures. Thunder Bay had the first municipally operated street railway in Canada, we can't get away with not having pictures of it!

[dj.surf.lfs]

I'm working on re-arranging the page so that things fit better.

I'm going to look into historical pictures. Thunder Bay had the first municipally operated street railway in Canada, we can't get away with not having pictures of it!

Ask TBT, they should have some good pictures. Be careful about the copyright, though (as you probably already know.)

I looked over at your map last night, and here are some comments:

4R River Terrace - could be extended to Water Term via John St.

5 Junot/6 James - could be diverted to Field St and 11st Av. to serve Staples, Future Shop etc...

8W Victoria - almost impossible to cross Arthur St on Leland during certain time periods. Also, I would put the routing on James instead of Mountdale, for rush hours.

8E Vickers - reverse the loopings, since you're violating one-way streets at two locations (Selkirk and Vickers). Also, I would have service on Brock rather than Francis, they have better road conditions.

All 9 routes: Could be peak only service, since there already is a "trans-cap service

Bombardier: It would be better if integrated with 1W.

Trans-cab Neebing: I would make Arthur St MarketPlace as a drop-off location also, I've seen people transfering buses there.

Anyways, that's all for now.