SMS Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Nevertheless, this sort of incident can very easily turn into an ugly situation, depending, of course, on who the "victim" is, as I can see some "thug dude" loosing his cool and punching the driver, etc. I can just as easily see some old fart shaking his or her old cane about, yelling hoarse at the driver, and complaining about technology and how everything used to be great in the good old days... personally I can't wait until the boomers, beatniks, and hippies (hypocrites who avoided war in their day, yet want the youth of the current generation to go to war) kick the bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranzit Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I can just as easily see some old fart shaking his or her old cane about, yelling hoarse at the driver, and complaining about technology and how everything used to be great in the good old days... personally I can't wait until the boomers, beatniks, and hippies (hypocrites who avoided war in their day, yet want the youth of the current generation to go to war) kick the bucket. Boy, I bet you must have some real knock-out brawls with yer old man! Probably with your teachers or bosses, as well. Anyway, I have yet to see some old lady or man pick a fight with a driver over a fare dispute, technology, etc. Actually, the new technology makes their lives simpler, so they embrace it. Would they rather fumble with coins and bills, or use a Smart Card? What I do see, though, is some old person (almost always a woman) deliberately try to stand in front of the line waiting for the bus. This happens worldwide. Hmmm...must be some weird disease translated from Latin no doubt into "I deserve to get on first, since I'm special". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Boy, I bet you must have some real knock-out brawls with yer old man! Probably with your teachers or bosses, as well. Just those with a certain undeserved sense of satisfaction having wasted cheap gas, built suburbs, and polluted everything and then expect the next generation to solve everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glaframb Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Yesterday, my 8 bus ticket magnetic card for the STL-Laval died with the 3 tickets remaining just because the card was bent or over used . I transfer 3 times in less than 90 minutes each time i traveled 5 times before x 4 = 20 validation turns. Yesterday, some drivers let me go anyways with my bent off card other called they boss and ask what to do other referred me to the AMT which obviously had nothing to do with me which transfer me to Montmorency AMT which had also nothing to do with it either. Finally i had contacted by phone the responsable at the STL and than i met her at her office, she exchange my old bent one for a brand new one. I think after those test runs, i would buy the Opus card at 3,50$ and fill it up instead of using a magnetic card with 8 tickets cause it a lot of trouble when it's broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranzit Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Just those with a certain undeserved sense of satisfaction having wasted cheap gas, built suburbs, and polluted everything and then expect the next generation to solve everything. All of which hasn't changed--and never will, unfortunately. Yesterday, my 8 bus ticket magnetic card for the STL-Laval died with the 3 tickets remaining just because the card was bent or over used . I transfer 3 times in less than 90 minutes each time i traveled 5 times before x 4 = 20 validation turns. Yesterday, some drivers let me go anyways with my bent off card other called they boss and ask what to do other referred me to the AMT which obviously had nothing to do with me which transfer me to Montmorency AMT which had also nothing to do with it either. Finally i had contacted by phone the responsable at the STL and than i met her at her office, she exchange my old bent one for a brand new one. I think after those test runs, i would buy the Opus card at 3,50$ and fill it up instead of using a magnetic card with 8 tickets cause it a lot of trouble when it's broken. Exactly. Why take a chance with that problematic magnetic strip? I'm sure lots of schoolkids are having their cards swallowed up, since they would tend to play around with them in transit without realizing how fragile they are. Furthermore, I can imagine kids having their cards grabbed by bullies who will run a magnet over it. I guess the STM didn't want to spend more money by making the 6-token cards sturdier like the CAM cards. They may yet be forced to, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Yesterday, my 8 bus ticket magnetic card for the STL-Laval died with the 3 tickets remaining just because the card was bent or over used . I transfer 3 times in less than 90 minutes each time i traveled 5 times before x 4 = 20 validation turns. Yesterday, some drivers let me go anyways with my bent off card other called they boss and ask what to do other referred me to the AMT which obviously had nothing to do with me which transfer me to Montmorency AMT which had also nothing to do with it either. Finally i had contacted by phone the responsable at the STL and than i met her at her office, she exchange my old bent one for a brand new one. I think after those test runs, i would buy the Opus card at 3,50$ and fill it up instead of using a magnetic card with 8 tickets cause it a lot of trouble when it's broken. Today I continued my testing of the STL 8 ticket magnetic card. I got to St-Francois fine, but when I tried to transfer to the 74, the machine gave me "Care Illisible". Cartier AMT had no idea what the thing even was, and using the STL direct line inside the terminus was useless, a) you have to wait 3 minutes just to talk to someone because you cannot press any buttons, everyone was on lunch break, and c) they gave me a nunber to call "directe", but I didn't feel like waiting for the guy to get back from his lunch break, and waste minutes. I decided to hop on another bus, and for some reason it worked. I have the bus number and route, and will include this with my evaluation. IMO, this is good for poeple who don't want to get an OPUS card, and who will take good care of it, or will only use it occasionally. Exactly. Why take a chance with that problematic magnetic strip? I'm sure lots of schoolkids are having their cards swallowed up, since they would tend to play around with them in transit without realizing how fragile they are. Furthermore, I can imagine kids having their cards grabbed by bullies who will run a magnet over it. You see, this will not be possible, since reduced fare tickets will only be available on an OPUS card, due to the fact, that ID is required for reduced fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranzit Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Major Glitch Alert! When using the new bus validators, pay attention to what's printed on your ticket. After boarding the 185 today at its eastern terminus, and using my 6-ticket/transfer card, no sooner did we arrive at Honoré-Beaugrand Metro than the driver told everyone to disembark and board the bus coming up behind us. Okay, fine, so I slid my ticket into this second 185's validator and what happens? You guessed it: it docked another fare from it! Incorrectly, I automatically assumed that my 2-hour transfer time from the first 185 would be calculated into my trip, right? Wrong! Evidently, the moment you re-board another bus on the same route, you will have another fare deducted! The only way to avoid this is not to validate your ticket on that second bus, which would require every passenger to tell the second bus's driver that they had been told to switch to the second by the first bus's driver and not to bother re-validating--something which could potentially be misunderstood and even innocently ignored by many. This is not cool, to say the least! Indeed, I wonder how many passengers have even noticed (or bothered to look!) if they have been unfairly paying twice for their trips under such circumstances? As if this isn't bad enough, I can only assume that the OPUS "Smart" Card (haha!) does exactly the same thing, only in that case you would not even know you have been "double-billed" since obviously you cannot see any readout unless and until you check your OPUS card at a vending/verification terminal and only then realize you have fewer "tokens" left on it than you thought! Needless, to say, I am going to bring this major gaffe to the attention of the ladies and gentlemen in the Blue Box tomorrow, since I had no time to do so today. Otherwise, today was a very enlightening day regarding the new bus validators themselves. Riding on route 33 southbound and nearing the southern terminus on Haig, my bus pulls up and stops suddenly behind an STM inspector/maintenance car. The only other passenger--an elderly gentleman--gets off and climbs aboard another 33 leap-frogging around us, but, not being in any rush, I remain on board and even move right up to the front seat to watch what happens next--which is that the maintenance guy opens up the validator with his key and checks for problems which the English driver tells me have frequently been occuring. The friendly driver complains to me about all the new technology making his job more complicated, while I watch closely as the maintenance guy fumbles around inside the box with all of its wiring and PC boards, etc. The driver tells me that pressing the green and the C buttons doesn't always release a "stuck" ticket (which I already found out the day before!). Anyway, as I gaze inside the validator, the guy removes a little metal box which holds the tickets (over a thousand I was informed), which pop up for passengers to take whenever they pay by cash. Not sure if this happens on every bus yet, but that is what will be the norm soon enough. If you look halfway down the front of the bus validator box, you can even see the edge of the stack of tickets through the little vertical window. On the side of that internal metal ticket box was a label notification: "...007 THK" and "010 THK", referring I presume to the millimeter thickness of the card stock options used for the tickets themselves. The first, "007 THK" had a check mark next to it, signifying what was being used on that bus. I asked several questions, naturally, such as: can you tell by the ticket itself what Metro station turnstile/validator printed the time on it, since the bus validators do print the route number as well as the time. The answer was "no", oddly enough. They also didn't know where the validator was manufactured, but logically it would be in the U.S. Anyway, the maintenance guy wrapped up his work and we were soon on our way again. I'll be keeping my eyes open for any further developments--and revelations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Everybody stick with your CAMs!!! Don't waste time, money, and patience! Yesterday, when i went back from Montréal, STM people were giving instruction to Laval Customer in order to use the new throw able magnetic card The new card which cost 2,75$ replaced the yellow metro ticket in Laval at 2,75$ and the light blue ticket at 2,75$ in Montréal. The throw able magnetic card act also act as a transfer that is valid for 2 hour after the time it had been first validated which is printed at the back of the card.The throw able card is a one trip type only. The six ticket card will not be available before another 2 years cause they want all the old ticket gone before that time. Right now if you ask for a 6 tickets book at 12$, they will give you a purple tickets only valid in Montreal and Metro Longueuil-Université-de-Sherbrooke or 6 throw able magnetic card unit at 2,75$ each that are validated later when you need and use them. Attention friends!!! Here's the scoop for ticket lovers! DE LA CONCORDE is the last station to have the old Laval tickets! Believe me, because I went to all three! I bought 40 dollars worth of adult and reduced fare tickets. This is your LAST chance till stocks run out. Add this to your collection, the value of this will mature like you won't believe... and the changeur there today was super cool, he let me buy as much as I wanted and he even let me into the metro "free" (i.e. with my CAM - not normally accepted at Laval stations - bastards!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Everybody stick with your CAMs!!! Don't waste time, money, and patience!Attention friends!!! Here's the scoop for ticket lovers! DE LA CONCORDE is the last station to have the old Laval tickets! Believe me, because I went to all three! I bought 40 dollars worth of adult and reduced fare tickets. This is your LAST chance till stocks run out. Add this to your collection, the value of this will mature like you won't believe... and the changeur there today was super cool, he let me buy as much as I wanted and he even let me into the metro "free" (i.e. with my CAM - not normally accepted at Laval stations - bastards!). Were they all attached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 That's actually a good question. The truth is no, I have one single for Adult and Reduced but that's ok cause Richard wants to buy one of each off me... the rest is all together. Here's what I have inclusively... they are 2008 tickets but have the 2007 colours: ADULT 533803 (solo) 533805-10; 533811-13 Total: $27.75 REDUCED 301113 (solo) 301116-20 Total: $10.50 Total money wasted: $38.25 (I pulled out 40 bucks from the Banque Laurentienne ATM in the station mezzanine) Damn! I coulda bought another reduced ticket! Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 That's actually a good question. The truth is no, I have one single for Adult and Reduced but that's ok cause Richard wants to buy one of each off me... the rest is all together.................... Total money wasted: $38.25 (I pulled out 40 bucks from the Banque Laurentienne ATM in the station mezzanine) Damn! I coulda bought another reduced ticket! Oh well... Did you make a special request to keep them together? ALSO: ALERT! BUY YOUR STL TICKETS ASAP TOO! MAGNETIC CARD GOING ON SALE JUNE 1ST, so they could go bye bye anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 No he was nice enough to keep it together for the most part. As you know they are not like the usual six ticket strips. They are printed in sheets that go in rows of five max (I don't remember how many columns). The changeur at Concorde SHOULD have enough for the next little while but I urge anyone who wants tickets to get some in the next 48 hours... PS - STL claims that paper tickets will be accepted till 31 March 2009. Source: http://stl.laval.qc.ca/opus/cm/depliant_carte_magnetique.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 No he was nice enough to keep it together for the most part. As you know they are not like the usual six ticket strips. They are printed in sheets that go in rows of five max (I don't remember how many columns). The changeur at Concorde SHOULD have enough for the next little while but I urge anyone who wants tickets to get some in the next 48 hours...PS - STL claims that paper tickets will be accepted till 31 March 2009. Source: http://stl.laval.qc.ca/opus/cm/depliant_carte_magnetique.pdf Looks like another day in Laval for me then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 ALSO:ALERT! BUY YOUR STL TICKETS ASAP TOO! MAGNETIC CARD GOING ON SALE JUNE 1ST, so they could go bye bye anytime. I would argue that now also is a good time to check out some RTL ticket places. They have a schedule which is posted here: http://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/pages/pr_PUCE_calendrier.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general682002 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 PS - STL claims that paper tickets will be accepted till 31 March 2009. Source: http://stl.laval.qc.ca/opus/cm/depliant_carte_magnetique.pdf Looks like I will have to make a deal if anyone visit for the upcoming charter since I won't be able to use the STL and RTL tickets for next year. BTW, nice rhyming SMS on your signature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 CONCORDE would not sell me any tickets today. They only wanted to sell me Magnetic Cards, which I didn't want obviously. Changeur told me they only sell them if they system breaks down, and better luck next time. I tried Monty, they laughed at me for trying to buy "old regular tickets", but I managed to cut my losses and pick up a full sheet of reduced tickets, 20 in total. Im not sure if I'll get any regular tickets in the end or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well ok, at least you have that much... I only now noticed that the reduced tickets are slightly larger in surface area than the regular tickets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well ok, at least you have that much... I only now noticed that the reduced tickets are slightly larger in surface area than the regular tickets! Are you serious? It's always been like that, even regular STM reduced tickets are like that. It is to prevent people from putting them into the turnstiles, not that it would get accepted anyways. There must be other reasons behind this as well. I really wanted some regular fare Laval's though...maybe I'll just bust the system or something to get them, that seems to be the only way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranzit Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 So, yup, the fellows in the Metro Blue Box refunded me the ticket I was docked by that double-dipping experience from the day before on the 185. I went through the bother not so much for the refund itself, but more to learn how they would handle such an issue. Without argument, they gave me three single-fare ticket cards in place of my original which they kept for reference purposes. I can only assume that an adjustment will be made to bus validators whereby busses with the same route number will recognize the two-hour transfer grace-period under circumstances where passengers are asked to disembark and re-board another bus of that same route in the event of mechanical breakdowns or drivers taking their bus out-of-service. For those who came late into this thread, I re-iterate: pay attention to what the validator prints on your ticket/transfer, making sure you are not incorrectly docked a fare. Passengers using OPUS Smart Cards will have no alternative but to go to their nearest available Metro vending machine and read how many "tokens" are left, making sure they tally with what you are certain is your correct balance. Otherwise you may find you have payed twice for one trip and be caught thinking you have more remaining fares than you actually do. This is the glaring downside to such "paperless travel". Now I understand why Auckland drivers handed passengers a receipt no matter how they paid: cash, ticket, or Smart Card. Indeed, I suppose a court case could be made (and doubtless has!) that--as has been universally accepted going back centuries--all transactions require a receipt of some kind as proof of payment. Now, regarding the STM's ticket rules and restrictions, to my surprise I learned that attempting to make a so-called "allez-retour" on the same bus route is definitely possible, as yesterday I took route 32 north to Leger, got tired waiting for any westbound bus to transfer to, and instead got back on the 32 southbound, where its validator accepted my ticket! I can only assume such "rebounding" will be possible on all other routes as well. And why not? I've been saying all along that it will be a lot less complicated to allow such freedom of movement. Exactly what other kinds of restrictions will occur--if any--will be interesting to find out going forward, so please post them here when and if they occur. By the way, I also learned what happens when you slide an expired ticket into the bus validator: a loud siren goes off and a built-in taser zaps you into convulsions! No, seriously, the lights flash red and a sort of "blurp" sounds instead of the friendly "bleep". Depending on the bus or perhaps the route, passengers who pay their fares with coins may either be handed the standard transfer we are all used to, or the new red and blue ticket/transfer card instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellergraham Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Major Glitch Alert! When using the new bus validators, pay attention to what's printed on your ticket. After boarding the 185 today at its eastern terminus, and using my 6-ticket/transfer card, no sooner did we arrive at Honoré-Beaugrand Metro than the driver told everyone to disembark and board the bus coming up behind us. Okay, fine, so I slid my ticket into this second 185's validator and what happens? You guessed it: it docked another fare from it! Incorrectly, I automatically assumed that my 2-hour transfer time from the first 185 would be calculated into my trip, right? Wrong! Evidently, the moment you re-board another bus on the same route, you will have another fare deducted! I'm going to write this while trying to duck the tomatoes are rubber chickens being thrown in my direction... Wasn't the system just doing what it's supposed to do? The current policy states that a transfer is not valid on the same line. OK, this is a special circumstance, the STM should NEVER have bus transfers mid-route* (CITSO used to do that often on the Valleyfield run until a lot of people complained). What did people with a regular transfer do? They showed it to the driver. That's what I would have done if I was in your place. BUT -- it is good to see the the blue box people refunded you without any problems. Alex * I'm going to start a new topic on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Now I understand why Auckland drivers handed passengers a receipt no matter how they paid: cash, ticket, or Smart Card.Indeed, I suppose a court case could be made (and doubtless has!) that--as has been universally accepted going back centuries--all transactions require a receipt of some kind as proof of payment. This would be a good idea, except most people would just throw them on the floor, creating more litter, and it would defeat the one of the purposes of having a smart card which is the saving of paper aspect. Now, regarding the STM's ticket rules and restrictions, to my surprise I learned that attempting to make a so-called "allez-retour" on the same bus route is definitely possible, as yesterday I took route 32 north to Leger, got tired waiting for any westbound bus to transfer to, and instead got back on the 32 southbound, where its validator accepted my ticket!I can only assume such "rebounding" will be possible on all other routes as well. And why not? I've been saying all along that it will be a lot less complicated to allow such freedom of movement. Exactly what other kinds of restrictions will occur--if any--will be interesting to find out going forward, so please post them here when and if they occur. So my suspicions were correct. Did I not predict the Odyssey would fall true to it's inferior design and let you on. Perhaps what this works out to, is that you cannot board Route ###-1 with a transfer validated on Route ###-1 but you can board Route ###-2. In other words, the way the tickets, cards sorry, work, is that it prints the number of the line, and 1 or two depending on the direction you validated the card on. I'm sure they aren't doing this as a courtesy. It may even be "corrected" in due time. More testing and experimenting for those seeking adventure. By the way, I also learned what happens when you slide an expired ticket into the bus validator: a loud siren goes off and a built-in taser zaps you into convulsions! No, seriously, the lights flash red and a sort of "blurp" sounds instead of the friendly "bleep".Depending on the bus or perhaps the route, passengers who pay their fares with coins may either be handed the standard transfer we are all used to, or the new red and blue ticket/transfer card instead. Nothing new, that's the invalid payment alert. That's been around since the beginning of the boxes. When someone would fraud the system, some drivers would take the time to press the correct buttons and enter the fraud, the person would be at the back of the bus by the time the thing blurped you a red light. I'd say depending on both. Since the card is to be introduced gradually across the island, I would expect that those boarding in areas not yet adorned with active equipment, will still receive the red arrow cards, and if the bus is equipped and running in a section of town where the implementation is underway, they might receive the giant ID badge transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Are you serious? It's always been like that, even regular STM reduced tickets are like that. It is to prevent people from putting them into the turnstiles, not that it would get accepted anyways. There must be other reasons behind this as well. I really wanted some regular fare Laval's though...maybe I'll just bust the system or something to get them, that seems to be the only way! Yeah I'm a CAM user and I've never really compared the differences in sizes of tickets, although I obviously know that only the adult fares have the convenience of a magnetic stripe. So that's good to know. It's not as obvious as the ginenormous RTL reduced tickets mind you... not sure about STL. Sorry about your deception with regards to the tickets but obviously different days have different changeurs! Try your luck everyday and don't give up! And now some news... I just called STL and RTL customer service and they claim that the paper tickets won't be phased out till late August or early September. So there's still time to collect tickets from the big three! But I'll have egg on my face big time if I am proven wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yeah I'm a CAM user and I've never really compared the differences in sizes of tickets, although I obviously know that only the adult fares have the convenience of a magnetic stripe. So that's good to know. It's not as obvious as the ginenormous RTL reduced tickets mind you... not sure about STL.Sorry about your deception with regards to the tickets but obviously different days have different changeurs! Try your luck everyday and don't give up! And now some news... I just called STL and RTL customer service and they claim that the paper tickets won't be phased out till late August or early September. So there's still time to collect tickets from the big three! But I'll have egg on my face big time if I am proven wrong IIRC, STL's are the same size no matter the fare, especially since the Odyssey has such a small slot, they need to fit it! Guess that's the only option. Perhaps another changeur won't "keep them for backup"...... I'd say were safe for a while, but you never know, so I'm not going to Press-My-Luck on this one, and get them soon enough. Trams being sold on OPUS, and you can't buy a "blank" one. One guy at Monty Billet-Met, was offered an OPUS Tram, and wanted to know what they deal with the $3.50 was. The 'agent' told him it was and administration charger, that he won't be able to avoid in a few months. He didn't like that, and said "we'll see about it then!!"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristan Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I got my OPUS employee card earlier this week and I made sure to make good usage of it this week. I never had any problems with it. I used it at Longueuil, McGill, Saint-Laurent, Langelier and Bonaventure metro stations. I also took many RTL buses (none of them had the reader ready) and STM 55 Saint-Laurent route on a 23 series, I should have waited, the bus behind was 11-008. Everytime I used it the yellow light on the reader came on, this means I have to show the picture side of my OPUS card to the changeur or bus driver. While shopping at Pharmaprix yesterday I found out that they do not give points when you buy tickets or passes!!! However there's a way around it, you just have to buy a gift card for the amount you need to spend on your tickets or pass and then use this gift card to make you purchase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Great idea Tristan! I'm all in favour about OPUS but I'll get it when I go for adult fare... I still can use the Carte Privilege until October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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