northwesterner

Barring the 4200, are there any other Bredas that were knocked out of service? I have been seeing more diesel/trolley Gilligs running Breda routes on weekdays.

Also of note as 4200 prepares to reenter service. It was ten years ago to the month (april/may) 2002 that coach 5101 entered service on route 7 (I rode it on its first day) as a test coach for the project.

I'm also curious as to the extent of the frame damage on the 4200. For a bus that old, frame damage should be an instant trip to the scrapper, but it sounds like they were able to salvage it.

Frames crack and break on all kinds of vehicles - depending on the individual situation it may be easy or difficult to repair. It should not be an "instant trip to the scrapper" unless you are in the process of retiring that fleet type.

As noted above 4253 has been retired due to an electrical fire - otherwise all 4200s are supposedly in service. However, there is a lane (or two) at Atlantic of long term out of service coaches; these are mostly coaches with axle and frame damage. As for OBS install - I was the one who postulated that; the major 4200 shortage occured the week after multiple 4100s were spotted on the road with OBS. It certainly was plausable at the time.

Metro surpassed 500 OBS-equipped coaches a couple of weeks ago. Current projection is for all coaches to be equipped some time in October next year. No new coach goes into service without it. All South Base coaches have been equipped since early October. No North Base coaches have it and of Atlantic Base coaches only 4191 does (which is only used for training).

4200 was retired several months ago with a broken frame. 4253 was retired in October after an electrical fire started in the left side dash panel and spread to wiring under the floor.

Word on the street is that coach 4200 - after being out of service for nearly two years (first for OBS test install, then broken frame) has returned to Atlantic Base and the shop is readying it to return to service...

Also - today I observed a very senior Ryerson Base operator with a 2800 on the 48 in the afternoon rush. Since the OBS install, all s/b 48s have been incorrectly signed between Loyal Hts and the U District. They are signed as "48 U District." Presumably this is because the 48 run cards have always been split into two trips, one trip between Loyal Hts and 15th and 45th, the second trip between 15th and 45th and the southern terminal (whichever one...). The problem is that there are a few AM trippers that terminate at Montlake and Pacific and are truly the trips that are to be signed "48 U District" BUT their run cards are also cut with the two trips - the second trip running only from 15/45 to the terminal. Thus all these coaches are incorrectly signed. I don't know when the OBS system changes the sign to 48 MT Baker TC via 23rd Ave, but if its at 15th and 45th, that is awfully late.

Anyways, this senior operator was smart enough to look in the book and manually input a sign code - she was correctly signed as "48 Mt Baker TC."

I was in Seattle yesterday (again...what a surprise) and found 4106 and 2600 together...literally. Looks like they were side-by side and both wanted to go into the single lane on 3rd Ave...It didn't work.

Since the left lane that 2600 was in is left turn only onto Yesler ... I think the preventability determination will be pretty easy on this one.

Lots of 4100 series Gillig Trolleys on 4200 Breda runs the last few days. I suspect that AVL installation has started on this fleet at Atlantic. Ryerson must be just about done, I haven't seen a RB coach w/o AVL in weeks.

are the electric engines in the Gillig trolleys aging beyond repair?

I know they would have been considered end of life by most agencies many years ago, but they were refurbished and packaged into Gillig bodies. As of late, I have noticed that some Gillig trolleys have been emitting a loud growl instead of the usual electric buzzing as they pass by. Is it a sign of fatigue on those aging electric engines?

Rear differentials cannot handle the torque of the electric traction motor and wear out prematurely. They'll make a bunch of noise until they fail and the shop changes them out, then they will be quiet again. I remember standing at the Volunteer Park terminal of the #10 circa 2002 and this very senior night operator (who retired shortly there after and passed away right away) came around the corner with brand new 4103 and it was growling. They've done it since delivery.

Metro will be surplusing 38 Gilligs with the end of the shakeup. All 13 current North Base 1100s are going. South Base and East Base will each send 6 OBS 1100s in exchange. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts given that North Base has great difficulty covering all their assignments now. Assignments on route 345 serving Northwest Hospital must have an 1100 per Safety Section edict.

Bellevue Base will be surplusing 20 non OBS 3200s. They will receive 14 OBS 3200s from Ryerson Base and 6 OBS 3200s from East Base. Ryerson will surplus 3 3200s and Central will surplus 2 3200s.

These are interesting changes. The 13 coaches at North Base presumably are the highest mileage 1100s, as the routes they operate on have a daybase requirement that is equal to the peak requirement (no pull in pull out trippers). And the Sat/Sun signout is similar to weekdays. On the other hand, the 1100s at East spent many years at Bellevue Base, when Bellevue based was closed Sat/Sun (leading to 30ft coaches on weekdays, 40ft on weekends, when the ridership was presumably even lower).

The NW Hospital deviation should be eliminated - planning wants it gone, but people cry when they try to eliminate it. Remember the old 318, serving the Hospital and the Four Freedoms retirement home ... loading wheelchairs in the old 5600 vans with the slow lift and cumbersome tiedown system. Ugh.

It looks like the coaches surplused from Bellevue were not sent straight to the boneyard. A number of them have been transfered to north base, to retirement North's high mileage Gillig Fleet. The 3480-3525 (or so) fleet of Gilligs had stayed in tact at North Base from delivery until a couple of years ago when a number of them went to Central in exchange for the 3600s. I still have a hard time seeing 3501 (for instance) on a 26. Some of those North Base Gilligs were cosmetically so well taken care of that they still looked new inside. I assume that they are getting up there in the mileage (compared to the fleet average) given that North signs them out on weekends before the 3600s (except for 346/347) despite the 3600s being the newer coaches.

When 4100 was delivered, were there any other differences between it and the rest of the 4100s besides the destination signs?

I was on it today and did not notice anything out of the ordinary, but that doesn't say a lot, as I dont get on too many Gillig Trolleys.

Was 4100 indeed the first of that batch, or did 4101 get here first? Both 4100 and 4101 do not have an APC installed, while 4102-4119 (or 4120) do.

4100 was here first. There were switches on the dash (left side) to automatically raise and lower the poles. They have been removed and capped off - this option was deleted from the production models.

Speaking of the "firsts", what about the Gillig Diesels-did they have an evaluation coach off those orders? 3200 was built in 12/1995, and 3202 was not built until 7/96, but I couldn't find any big differences when I was wondering around them before they were auctioned.

And what about the 3600s?

3600 was the first coach - no obvious changes between it and the production coaches.

3200 and 3201 were the evaluation coaches. 3200 seems pretty stock except for some different labels on the dashboard. 3201 was quite different - different roof hatches, different grate above the rear window inside for the heat/vent return, exterior fleet numbers were in a different type face and locations, and the upholstery colors were reversed.

When applying ad wrap. make sure you don't end up blocking the destination sign.

Forget about the destination sign. The ad wrap is blocking celebrity-operator-Reggie's SMILE sign!

I thought it was funny that the '99 Phantoms (3545-3594) got split up. They have been together at SB for quite a few years. Now, they are all over the place. East, North and Ryerson have some of them.

Most of the '99 Phantoms have been retired. Originally delivered as a group to Central Base, they were transfered to South Base circa 2004 because South Base was putting more miles on their Gilligs (as a fleet) per year than any other base so they were given the newest coaches. I rode one on the 75 about six weeks ago ... this is the first time they've operated at North Base. I also saw one on a night owl run on the 5 a few weeks ago - after so many years it is still surprising to see one on a Central Base route. Trivia - one coach was equipped security cameras as a test and operated at Ryerson Base for about two months in 2003. I believe it was 3556.

I guess the Gilligs with OBS have the same thing (not sure about D40LFs...Havent been on an OBS one yet). The OBS displays replaced the "STOP REQUESTED" signs on the D/DE60LFs.

I've noticed the Community Transit and Sound Transit/C coaches are also having interior displays installed. they do not have the red LEDs on top of them and instead cycle the "stop requested" message. As of yet, they only display the date/time and "stop requested". No automated announcements either.

Metro made a good choice by choosing not to run the stop requested system through the OBS. Every system I've seen that has done that has created problems for a simple system. In Phoenix, the chime won't sound until the announcement is done if the cord is pulled. Don't know if the driver's tell tale lights up right away or not, but pretty ridiculous all the same. Other systems, the Stop Requested will interrupted and cancel the announcement being played. Metro wisely did not integrated the chime system with the OBS.

I wish I'd have taken more photos of the full iPod wraps...and the Wells Fargo on 2442 when they were around. Very colorful.

Anyways, that's enough outta me.

The most memorably colorful wraps for me include the iMac "gumdrop" wraps from about 2000 and the "one vegetable a day" wrap on coach 3438 from the same era.

It's to identify the coach to the Good to Go system so they won't generate a "toll by mail" bill.

The odd thing is that the Good to Go system has a "pay by plate" system built in for large fleets. If you register a sticker with your account, you have to put in the vehicle type and plate anyways. Why go to the extra effort to put a sticker on every windshield.

At the company I work for, we registered all our plates with Good to Go rather than do the sticker. Mechanics aren't very good about replacing those stickers (which then must be re-registered) when a windshield is changed.

The Flxibles are a tough case, since Flxible went out of business over 15 years ago. I would think they're cannibalizing from the Metros that have already been retired. Off hand, I can't think of anyone else still running Flxible Metros, which is why it was all the more surprising to see so many in base service.

The Gilligs would be easier to find parts for.

Many years ago TriMet decided to market their "frequent service" routes as having all Low Floor equipment. What this meant was these heavy lines were sucking up the newer Low Floors (including for all the peak hour trippers) leaving the older Gilligs and Flxibles to run day base on some lighter lines.

Of course, from a fleet management perspective, this is ridiculous. The Low Floors should be running all day base service with the Gilligs and Flxibles providing peak hour tripper service. Those Flxibles (as neat as it is to go down there to ride them) shouldn't be providing any kind of base service at their advanced age.

I wonder why CT got 9525. Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to swap one of the '99 D60LFs from Metro instead of having one coach with different interior materials.

Anyways, 9525C is the only 2000 D60LF that's operated by CT. The rear seat has a cushion from a '99 D60LF. 9525C is the second ST/C coach that I've seen with interior passenger information signs. The other is 9553C. Does that mean that they are planning on keeping 9525 for a while? I rode it from Seattle to Mountlake Terrace. The interior sign still only shows the date/time and "STOP REQUESTED".

When the 2000 D60LFs were delivered, 9525 was a Metro coach. In fact, 9524 was actually transfered from CT to Metro and was the only 99 D60LF at Metro for a few years. As additional coaches were delivered (hybrids and such), 9524 as well as 9525 were transfered to CT. This was before the 1999 D60LFs originally delivered to Pierce Transit were transfered to Metro.

With the older ST D60LFs on their way out, the one thing I'll miss about them is their rather masculine-sounding Detroit Diesel engines.

What?

Are you serious?

The detroit diesel series 50 engine is one of the worst sounding diesels ever made. Its a four cylinder engine and makes all these awful rattlyclattering noises. Ugh. Nothing like the real 2-stroke detroits.

This trolley had one pole on the inside lane wire and one pole on the outside lane wire

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zheistand/6547567385/

This is standard operating procedure if you dewire and stop right at a switch or insulator. If the driver can't get (often one pole) back on the wire due to an insulator or special work, they find the nearest live wire (which may be across the street) and move the coach until it can be rewired properly.

In this case, since the dewirement happened at the entrance to a siding, there was not reason to get out and manually move the poles.

Whoa....Thanks for the info on that.

That's right...I sort remember that...From the info out there, the driver of the coach was somebody who should not have been a bus driver in the first place...Metro lost some money off that one.

News article

I have no idea what the driver was actually like - but the press coverage of this accident was shameful. Metro leaked out a ton of info and it became a "smear job" against the driver. I've never seen anything like it before or since. They really wanted her gone.

I do recall 2300/2301 having smaller flipdot displays for the route number on the left side of the coach.

I actually believe these displays are the normal size but have been misprogrammed (as in - the size of the side sign). There have been quite a few 2300s that this has happened to over the years.

I remember 3439 (I think) have the side sign display as if it was the rear sign - couldn't really read the number.

As for 2301, it either lost it somewhere along the line, or it never had one since it would have been the first production D60. The license plates i think get replaced every so many years, same as a passenger car, or when they get worn out (could be for the bridge tolling coming up soon).

I'll have to check my records 2301 may have been delivered before 2300, making 2300 the first production coach.

There's a couple other minor details different with whichever one was the preproduction demo.

Plates are probably being replaced for the 520 tolling - you don't have to replace apportioned or exempt plates EVER - but they do need to be replaced when they are worn out.

From what I noticed, the Gilligs are on the routes that use the 40' trolleys and D60s and DE60LFs are on the 7, 43,44,49 and 36.

Routes are dieselized based on construction projects. 40ft trolleys / 40ft diesels on normal weekday 40ft routes. The 7/49 are Bredas if electric and diesel artics if dieselized. The 43/44 are Gillig trolleys if electric, and diesel artics if dieselized.

A few years back the 7, and 43/44 were permanently dieselized on weekends. This was because the 4000-series trolleys were so worn out they needed some rest to get through the weekday bookouts. After much protest, metro did a ridership analysis and determined the 43/44 could operate with 40ft trolleys on weekends, and its been that way ever since. At one point, on Saturdays, the 7 & 43/44 peak coach requirement for 4000s was the same as a weekday during PM peak. Those poor coaches had the wheels run off them.

Now, the 43/44 get artic diesels when dieselized because their terminals can handle vehicles of that length - and there are fewer and fewer 40ft diesels out of Ryerson/Central base to operate.

^ Hard to tell by the scars of where the decals were ^

I found an A.J bus, i have no clue where it use to run as i saw old decals from another company. it was hard to read it, and i also found this thing lol

Divine Transportation of Phoenix AZ.

It really kinda pains me to see a whole group of those New Flyer's still in good condition go to scrap like that. I do know that the regular life for a US bus is 12 because the agency gets funding for new buses from government, but is ST or KCM willing to do midlife overhaul on them and extend they're lives to 20 yeras like in Canada? Or do they HAVE to stick with that 12 year cycle thing?

Sorry, Charlie, those ST 9500s, especially the first group, were not in good condition.

They worked hard for their 12 years, and are beyond ready to go to the scrap pile.

I'm in favor of extending the life of quality coaches as long as you can - 15, 16, 18 years. Its been done before, and it'll happen again.

But it was never going to happen with those 9500s. They were poor coaches from the day of delivery.

For a public radio story on trolley coach replacement, follow this link.

http://www.kuow.org/mp3high/mp3/News/20110...nsi_TROLLEY.mp3

Transcript here:

http://kuow.org/program.php?id=23288

All 2800's (D60LFs) are at Ryerson. Once in a great while one of those floats a round, one was on the 19 that leaves my layover area a few days ago, he normally has a 2300.

As noted, the 2800s are generally assigned to 48 and 120 runs. However, some of these runs may have one or two trips on a different route...

For years, when the 17 was at Ryerson, the 4:30PM 17X trip was part of a run that pulled out in the AM as a 48, had a road relief occur on the 48, and stayed out all night doing 17 & 23 after the 17X trip.

The last n/b 26X for many years was the last trip of an 8hr route 48 run.

There have also been (but may not currently be) 16s tacked onto 120s, etc. Its kinda neat to ride them outside the normal territory, however, being the regular equipment on the 48 and 120, they're getting awfully gross inside.

I can't actually confirm it was a Ryerson coach, though the last time I checked all the D60LFs were there. Metro only has one route that operates on eastbound 45th right there--the 167--and that's the AM routing that goes eastbound. I checked AVL data and the 44s were all running 4200s as they normally do. Must've been a deadheader.

Metro bought them around the same time as 2599 to compare diesel to diesel-electric. There's a report around somewhere comparing them. At least I think that's how it worked; I don't know why you'd order 250 of them before you had evaluated them.

I wondered the same thing. The results may surprise you. Or maybe not.

2599 was purchased as a one off to evaluate the hybrid technology.

The 30 D60LFs were ordered at the same time as the first big hybrid order (2600-2812). Metro ordered 213 Hybrids, and Sound Transit ordered 22. 213+22 = 235, or the exact number of Bredas.

Metro did not need more coaches than that to run the tunnel service, and there was a large price difference between the Hybrids and standard diesels. Hence, the 30 D60LFs which were used for fleet expansion. Original plans were for 15 to Ryerson for the 120, and 15 to Central for the 15/18, but the Central scheduler said he didn't want a 15 coach subfleet and asked that they not be assigned to his base. All 30 were given to Ryerson, where they've run pretty much exclusively on the 48 and 120 since delivery.

The D60LFs that KCM has baffle me. Only 30 of them? Granted, Ryerson does not have any tunnel routes and does not need the DE60LFs, but the Central DE60LFs are on non-tunnel routes quite often. I guess that was already seven years ago though and the 60' hybrids were a brand new concept. I can imagine the cost difference was quite substantial at the time.

Going back to a time when I did not realize that I was a transit fan, Metro had the revolutionary Bredas. Most of them were gone when I really started getting interested in Metro, so I have a (another) question: Did Metro operate the Bredas on non-tunnel routes like they do with the DE60LFs?

The Bredas were very rarely operated in trolley mode on the surface. Very rarely. Emphasize the very.

There were occasional tripper runs that included surface routes that they would show up on. However, because they had a small fleet, and they were very unreliable as diesels, Metro kept them in the tunnel whenever possible. That being said, I have photos in my collection of them running trippers on the 15X, 18X, 55, 252, 257, 266 on weekdays. These were regularly scheduled Breda trips, usually the previous or next trip on the run would be on a tunnel route. The 18X trip was operated with a Breda for a few years, after reaching North Beach, the operator would deadhead to CPS and do an outbound 106. I also know that they operated AM trippers out of Central on the 21X, 22, 56X, 5X, 355, etc for many years.

They used to run on the surface on weekends, especially on Sundays when the tunnel was closed out of South Base. Before the 2300s were delivered, south base had about 45 non-accessible 1400-series MANs, and about 20ish 2000-series MANs (which were pretty much dedicated to the 174). With all the coaches needed on a Sunday for the 101, 150, 174, and 194, there was no way to cover them with 2000s. It seemed at the time (back when we had run number boxes) the hostler would assigned all the earliest pullouts 2000s, and then would cover the rest with Bredas. So if you rode any of those 4 routes on a Sunday circa 1998, you never knew what kind of coach would show up at the curb. It might be a 2000 or it might be a Breda. Heck, there was even a regularly scheduled Gillig run on the 150 on Sundays back then. I have a picture of that too. Somewhere.

More on the bus fire from the Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...busfire20m.html

And the linked Youtube video.

Looks like 2894...

Speaking of rear doors, has anyone else noticed that atleast some of the DE60LFs and newer actually have a vapor CLASS system installed? its the accoustically operated rear door swtich, unlike the typical pushbar or treadle. Now metro seems to operate them as driver controlled, per historcial standard, but its there. A lot of other newer coaches also have the CLASS system as well, vs the old pushbar or treadle.

Yes - these are the ones with the green "push to open" lights.

They were installed as a sensitive edge system... though presumably with a little reprogramming could be used as passenger activated rear doors.

Yes it is. The 6 was removed from both of these coaches.

Horizon coaches actually have BC Plates when working in Vancouver. That's why I noticed the Washington plate on 303.

Horizon Coaches and Gray Line of Seattle are the non-Alaska properties sold by Holland America in 2009. Both were sold to TMS LLC, based out of Maryland.

Their operation also includes Cabana Coaches in South Florida, as well as new Horizon Coach Lines operations in Victoria (+ the recent purchase of Gray Line West), Houston, and Los Angeles.

The fleet continues to move around the country based on current needs. All Gray Line of Seattle coaches will be rebranded as Horizon.

303 is an original 102A3, one of the first off the line in 1985. The original grouping was 302-307, 302 was wrecked years ago. The remaining five coaches are all nearing one million miles and last summer were moved to the Victoria operation. They returned to Seattle in December. Expect to see continued coach movements - and ignore the plates. With apportioned registration, you can license your coach in any jurisdiction you operate ... MTR's were all registered in Oregon. The Horizon Canada operations have the Horizon DOT # and legal ID. The Horizon US operations have the Evergreen Trails DOT # and legal ID. The Cabana operation in Florida has their DOT # and ID. They'll probably merge all that stuff at some point in the future, but for now it remains separate.