[Photos] LACMTA NABI Metro-45C for Silver Line

[R. McConnell]

No, LACMTA is not fine without Suburban buses, I mean come on. Suburban buses can be used for Express routes which is "Metro Express" and can be used on Metro Local and Rapid routes.

Why? The current system with transit buses works fine. It allows for error should a certain bus not be available, and it isn't generating passenger complaints to the best of my knowledge.

LACMTA can take over Commuter Express, and All Contracted bus lines as well.

They got rid of those routes for a reason -- the reason that they weren't performing well. Leaving those routes under LADOT ownership is better -- the decentralized system of a number transit agencies across the region provides better service than one single widespread bus operator would.

No, I did NOT say the suburban buses can be used on Orange Line , I said Sliver line, read please before posting.

I said: "The Silver Line is technically a "Metro Liner" similar to the Orange Line in that it travels mostly on transitways."

You said: "I think they should use Suburban buses on that line and other LACMTA's express route, even on local buses that have low ridership", which is quite ambiguous as to which line you were referring.

So your statement could be applied to either the Silver or Orange lines -- it wasn't very specific.

Also tell us a story about your not good experience at all about suburban buses running on busy and low ridership routes?

I know subruban uses can't handle crowd but the run on busy local routes anyways and tell us the sory about it.

Riding horrible suburban NYCT RTSs and Orions on the Q17 route in Queens was hell. The seats were badly beat up and green dust from the cushions was all over the floor. It took upwards of five minutes to board passengers at certain stops due to the fact that it was almost impossible to move about within the bus, and comparing that with local buses on the same route, it's definitely a longer dwell time.

[Skateboard 5555]

Why? The current system with transit buses works fine. It allows for error should a certain bus not be available, and it isn't generating passenger complaints to the best of my knowledge.

Suburban buses aren't that bad, after all if they use it it would be better and as i said before it can be used on Metro Express and Sliver Line routes and sometimes on Metro Local and Metro Rapid routes rather they have low or high ridership.

Besides other TAs use Suburban buses on express routes and even on local bus just like NYCT does. I know which TAs does that which are DDOT and Valley metro and other TAs.

They got rid of those routes for a reason -- the reason that they weren't performing well. Leaving those routes under LADOT ownership is better -- the decentralized system of a number transit agencies across the region provides better service than one single widespread bus operator would.

well LADOT needs new buses. As for contracted bus lines, those should have been kept part of LACMTA instead of giving away to contracted operators, or just cancel all those current contracted bus lines. At least NYCT did NOT do that.

Riding horrible suburban NYCT RTSs and Orions on the Q17 route in Queens was hell. The seats were badly beat up and green dust from the cushios was all over the floor. It took upwards of five minutes to board passengers at certain stops due to the fact that it was almost impossible to move about within the bus, and comparing that with local buses on the same route, it's definitely a longer dwell time.

Well be happy that all 1993 Orion V Suburban 101-172 (some were reseated hard seats years ago before retiring) are all retired, and the 1995 Orion V Suburban 611-630 are retiring. The 1996 NOVABus RTS Subruban 9250-9349 are currently getting reseated to hard seats. Now speaking of seats in bad shape, those 1997 Ex-GBL Orion V seats are in bad shape and yes there soft seats as well,but there getting new seats. I don't know about the Ex-PBL 1999 Orion V Suburban, i don't know if their seats are in good shape or not.

[ieko]

Suburban buses aren't that bad, after all if they use it it would be better and as i said before it can be used on Metro Express and Sliver Line routes and sometimes on Metro Local and Metro Rapid routes rather they have low or high ridership.

Besides other TAs use Suburban buses on express routes and even on local bus just like NYCT does. I know which TAs does that which are DDOT and Valley metro and other TAs.

well LADOT needs new buses. As for contracted bus lines, those should have been kept part of LACMTA instead of giving away to contracted operators, or just cancel all those current contracted bus lines. At least NYCT did NOT do that.

...

I think you need to try and understand these issues from a financial point of view.

The only route in the system that would warrant suburban buses is 450X, 577X does poorly and isn't even run by Metro. So buying buses for one line that only operates during peak hour would be extremely expensive as they'd likely have a hard time finding anyone else to join the order, not to mention if they have to get a type of bus they currently don't have in the fleet you're adding a ton of maintenance costs. Also, think about this, if 450X gets cancelled, where do those buses go? You can't put them out on regular routes because they'll add time to routes, and therefore operating costs will increase.

As for giving up routes, LACMTA is a county agency, so it's not in their interest to cancel service as it would likely end up being a large obvious gap (look at the south bay, nearly all those lines perform poorly that are currently contracted). Therefore they try to find the most cost effective way to provide the service if it performs poorly.

[ABQ RIDE]

Does anyone know who is the manufacturer of the annunciators on these buses? I know that LACMTA has tested both Digital Recorders and Clever Devices on the Neoplans. Which system won?

[Nicholas Reed]

Does anyone know who is the manufacturer of the annunciators on these buses? I know that LACMTA has tested both Digital Recorders and Clever Devices on the Neoplans. Which system won?

Neither... it uses Orbitals system.

[R. McConnell]

Also, think about this, if 450X gets cancelled, where do those buses go?

Which brings up the question -- why is LACMTA keeping the 450X when the Silver Line provides virtually the same service?

well LADOT needs new buses. As for contracted bus lines, those should have been kept part of LACMTA instead of giving away to contracted operators, or just cancel all those current contracted bus lines. At least NYCT did NOT do that.

If LACMTA kept the contracted lines, service would most likely suffer as a result of too much centralization. As for cancelling them, there's no reason to do that as many of the contracted lines have somewhat high ridership (such as the First Transit lines in the South Bay, for example.)

[George L.]

Which brings up the question -- why is LACMTA keeping the 450X when the Silver Line provides virtually the same service?

If LACMTA kept the contracted lines, service would most likely suffer as a result of too much centralization. As for cancelling them, there's no reason to do that as many of the contracted lines have somewhat high ridership (such as the First Transit lines in the South Bay, for example.)

Answer to the First Quote:

The 450X still shaves about twenty minutes off commute time on the Harbor Transitway by skipping most of the stops on the 110 Fwy/Figueroa St corridors. It only stops at a few spots in Downtown, 37th Station, Harbor Transitway Green Line Station, and the Artesia Transit Center. The Silver Line makes more stops in Downtown and stops at every station along the Transitway to Artesia. Besides, the 450X still enjoys good levels of ridership as some see it as better than being on a crowded Silver Line bus which it almost always is during rush hour while others prefer the straight shot to the transit center and don't want to miss bus connections.

[ieko]

Answer to the First Quote:

The 450X still shaves about twenty minutes off commute time on the Harbor Transitway by skipping most of the stops on the 110 Fwy/Figueroa St corridors. It only stops at a few spots in Downtown, 37th Station, Harbor Transitway Green Line Station, and the Artesia Transit Center. The Silver Line makes more stops in Downtown and stops at every station along the Transitway to Artesia. Besides, the 450X still enjoys good levels of ridership as some see it as better than being on a crowded Silver Line bus which it almost always is during rush hour while others prefer the straight shot to the transit center and don't want to miss bus connections.

Yeah I've been on many packed 450X's, with the amoutn of people who queue up at 7th and Flower during PM rush you basically take the first bus that comes, almost everyone goes to the Artesia Transit Center as they're mostly white collar workers in downtown LA choosing to Park & Ride.

[R. McConnell]

This is an old topic, but...

I saw the "Silver Line" in action today, using a regular "local" 7500-series NABI 40-LFW. Do the Metro 45Cs not run on the Silver Line on weekends?

[ATE2]

This is an old topic, but...

I saw the "Silver Line" in action today, using a regular "local" 7500-series NABI 40-LFW. Do the Metro 45Cs not run on the Silver Line on weekends?

yes, they do. The night pic of silver line bus at El monte was taken on Sunday.

Also, my friend saw a Neoplan #6496 at El monte today (1/24) running Silver line

[LosAngeles7]

LACMTA seems to be very good at relaxing its standards for special services.

I remember back in 2000 when Metro Rapid was touted as a lot more than just a limited-stop service with red buses that sometimes have signal preemption. Route layouts were supposed to be easy to follow, service was supposed to come at around 12 minute intervals or less during rush hour and 20 minutes or less all day, buses were supposed to have free run time and headway management by some by some sort of central operation, "station" stops were supposed to be more than just a plain sign, and off-board fare collection was eventually supposed to take place.

[ieko]

The Silver Line isn't a Rapid service -- that being said, the Rapid buses all have signal preemption, the maps seem fine to me, service is always =>20 minutes, during rush hour it's usually =>10 minutes. The buses do have free run times in the sense that if they reach a timepoint early they're not required to stay there until the time matches the schedule, they just keep going. The busiest of rapid lines like 720 have bus stops with signs that show how long until the next bus is. I think they reserved off-board fare collection to lines that get their own color. I believe the Silver line is going to get this in about a year along with other security upgrades at stations, not to mention the new El Monte Busway Station at Union Station.

I'm not sure why you think they're not doing these things, besides the signs at bus stops everything else is quite ubiquitous.

[R. McConnell]

the Rapid buses all have signal preemption

IIRC, the rapid buses only have signal preemption within Los Angeles city limits. In other jurisdictions, they operate as a normal bus would. And when a local bus is used on a rapid line (it's not that common, but I've seen it a few times) there's no preemption at traffic signals at all.

The busiest of rapid lines like 720 have bus stops with signs that show how long until the next bus is.

I've seen the "fancy bus stops" with maps and countdown clocks only on the 720 route, and I don't think it's at all the stops. Most Rapid stops on other lines are no more than a simple bus stop with a "Rapid" sign.

[ieko]

Oh no, I meant that all the Rapid buses have the capability to do signal preemption. If the traffic signal supports it or not is another story

I swear I've seen other lines with the fancy stops, but I could be wrong. I'll have to look in the next few days.

[George L.]

IIRC, the rapid buses only have signal preemption within Los Angeles city limits. In other jurisdictions, they operate as a normal bus would. And when a local bus is used on a rapid line (it's not that common, but I've seen it a few times) there's no preemption at traffic signals at all.

I've seen the "fancy bus stops" with maps and countdown clocks only on the 720 route, and I don't think it's at all the stops. Most Rapid stops on other lines are no more than a simple bus stop with a "Rapid" sign.

Actually, LACMTA is currently working with CalTrans to get signal preemption in all other areas that the Rapid system serves.

[codedude]

On a related note to The Silver Line, I've noticed a lot of 7300 series buses running out of division 9 lately with the new paint scheme for metro local. At the same time I've noticed much fewer 7600s. I wonder is they're transferring vehicles to other divisions or what. This could explain why there have been other buses substituted for the 8300s on the Silver Line (which operates out of division 9 partially). I was more used to seeing 7300s running on routes in the Hollywood area, but as an observer I've figured out that buses close in fleet number don't operate out of the same division. The fleet numbers and the division assignments seem very random.

Another note...I've seen several of the new NABI-45s (the 8300 series) with malfunctioning headsigns already. Is it common for NABIs to have so many issues with the headsigns?

[general682002]

Another note...I've seen several of the new NABI-45s (the 8300 series) with malfunctioning headsigns already. Is it common for NABIs to have so many issues with the headsigns?

Blame Luminator!

[R. McConnell]

Another note...I've seen several of the new NABI-45s (the 8300 series) with malfunctioning headsigns already. Is it common for NABIs to have so many issues with the headsigns?

I saw one of Foothill Transit's brand-new 42-BRTs with a malfunctioning destination sign last weekend, so I'd have to say that it happens to the best of us.

[MetroRider14]

I see the Silver line as a joke, I laugh at it when I see it or ride it. I still see riders complaining at the extra fees thinking it was a regular express bus or that they used to pay this when it was the 44X. I don't know whats going on at SGV-9 because I still see 8300s on local service. On a similar note, line 902 uses those silver 8300s and I always hear people talk about how cool the buses look, I've seen some people ask if they need to pay more to ride it. SB-18 got some of those 7600s(metro bus) from sgv-9.

another note-new 8200s have tint now

[codedude]

I see the Silver line as a joke, I laugh at it when I see it or ride it. I still see riders complaining at the extra fees thinking it was a regular express bus or that they used to pay this when it was the 44X. I don't know whats going on at SGV-9 because I still see 8300s on local service. On a similar note, line 902 uses those silver 8300s and I always hear people talk about how cool the buses look, I've seen some people ask if they need to pay more to ride it. SB-18 got some of those 7600s(metro bus) from sgv-9.

another note-new 8200s have tint now

I don't understand the logic behind using the metro local color scheme on the Silver Line. I don't see how having silver 8300s on the Silver line would create confusion with line 902 since those lines don't cross paths.

Just a few days ago I saw and 8300 running on line 258...very strange!

I still see some 7600s running out of SGV-9, but now it seems to mostly be 7300s, 7700s, and 7800s. There's definitely some shifting going on. The 7600s have been running out of SGV-9 for as long as I can remember. The 7600s-7800s running out of SGV-9 are in really good condition...little to no graffitti etched in the windows. Those 7600s that got transferred to SB-18 will probably get covered in graffitti. I used to ride the 210 line a couple summers ago and that line operates out of SB-18 and exclusively uses 6300s. Those buses are really covered in graffitti and dirty inside.

[codedude]

SB-18 got some of those 7600s(metro bus) from sgv-9.

Actually, I saw 7609 and 7611 (both formerly sgv-9 buses) working the 534 line in West L.A.

Also saw 9345 on line 761 near UCLA. 9345 was a WSC-7 bus that usually worked line 704. It now has brand new SFV-15 identification on it.

MTA has definitely been shifting buses around over the past few weeks A LOT. I guess it has to do with all those new buses coming in and the fact that each division has to have similar average fleet age. As already mentioned, SGV-9 has a number of newly painted 7300s and many of the 7600s are gone and they just got a lot of the new 8300s.

[George L.]

SB-18 got some of those 7600s(metro bus) from sgv-9.

Actually, I saw 7609 and 7611 (both formerly sgv-9 buses) working the 534 line in West L.A.

Also saw 9345 on line 761 near UCLA. 9345 was a WSC-7 bus that usually worked line 704. It now has brand new SFV-15 identification on it.

MTA has definitely been shifting buses around over the past few weeks A LOT. I guess it has to do with all those new buses coming in and the fact that each division has to have similar average fleet age. As already mentioned, SGV-9 has a number of newly painted 7300s and many of the 7600s are gone and they just got a lot of the new 8300s.

I don't know about that, I ride Line 487, which is a SGV-9 route, every day and a lot of times, I do get a 7600 series NABI

[codedude]

Right now, the silver line uses the new 45 foot buses that are painted in the metro orange scheme. I just read on wiki that a new delivery of 45 foot buses will be made in 2010 that are painted silver and these new silver buses will be used on the silver line. That sounds much more logical than using the current buses painted orange.

[LosAngeles7]

I wonder what will happen with the silver buses at Division 15 if Line 902 happens to go away at some point in the future, perhaps when demand for bus service picks up and passengers have more reason to complain about a confusing service arrangement and about 45 foot vehicles replacing 60 foot ones on a high ridership corridor.

[George L.]

I wonder what will happen with the silver buses at Division 15 if Line 902 happens to go away at some point in the future, perhaps when demand for bus service picks up and passengers have more reason to complain about a confusing service arrangement and about 45 foot vehicles replacing 60 foot ones on a high ridership corridor.

Actually Line 902 has been made permanent by the LACMTA, but if it does go way, the Silver-Livery 45 footers will either be repainted and be put into Local service or transferred to SGV-9 which currently operates most of the new 8300-Series NABI 45C-Metro's.