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Well it appears the city was given yet another "Blow" to the LRT/Transitway expansion.

This time around the NCC is not "giving" their land for the Transiteway expansion between Bayshore & Modie drive(wasn't aware this was NCC land thought it was provincal/city owned") Aniway they sent a letter to city council stating not to take for granted NCC lands for future Transit expansions. Why do I get the feeling there be no LRT going down the Ottawa Riover Parkway.

Apparently if a deal can't be worked out with the NCC, the city will basicaly only have three options

1) Tunnel from Bayshore to Modie Drive(I dought this as this will be $$$$$)

2) Road way over the 417(I dough this will not be done $$ and I dought the province will allow it)

3) down the middle of the 417(this might be posible theres room to do this, but wil the province allow it?)

If the land can't be purchased from the NCC , I think going down the middle of the 417 would be the best option as if the 417 was ever to be expand(supposely this suppose to done, not sure when?) that it would intfer with the transitway.

First we get $100M being over budget

Then only earlier his wek we find out $200 million is added

Then a Secruity issue Tunnel to close to PM/s Office

now this?

Why do I get the feeling the LRT is on 'LIFE SUPPORT!!!' :blink::(

Inbfo heard on CFRA

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Well it appears the city was given yet another "Blow" to the LRT/Transitway expansion.

This time around the NCC is not "giving" their land for the Transiteway expansion between Bayshore & Modie drive(wasn't aware this was NCC land thought it was provincal/city owned") Aniway they sent a letter to city council stating not to take for granted NCC lands for future Transit expansions. Why do I get the feeling there be no LRT going down the Ottawa Riover Parkway.

As for the Transitway expansion between Bayshore and Moodie -- the NCC doesn't know what they are talking about.

An Environmental Assessment (EA) along that stretch was undertaken in the 90s and was completed in 1996 (where the Ministry of Environment approved the EA). The Transitway was envisaged to be built from Bayshore to Kanata Town Centre on the north-side of Hwy 417. During the EA process, all applicable agencies/parties were consulted, including the NCC.

In my opinion, for NCC to say that they weren't consulted on this is simply misleading.

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Why not convert Coorkstown Road to BRT (or future LRT) west of Moodie? There is plenty of space between Moodie and Bayshore to not rampaged the Greenbelt. So I don't know what's the problem with the NCC. But of course the NCC is the NCC... an anti-transit organization behind very cozy to regular motorists and developers but not for greener initiatives. As far as I know it is 2009 not 1969.

Also I think this thread should be renamed Rapid Transit Developments (basically like on the Skyscraperpage.com Forum) so to keep it separate from the miscellaneous news thread as the LRT/BRT expansion news/developpments should not be mixed up with other news.

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This did not require a new, separate topic. It could have been posted in the GOA news, info, etc. topic.
Also I think this thread should be renamed Rapid Transit Developments (basically like on the Skyscraperpage.com Forum) so to keep it separate from the miscellaneous news thread as the LRT/BRT expansion news/developpments should not be mixed up with other news.

I agree that "Rapid Transit Network Developments" is an important enough topic to warrant its own thread.

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This did not require a new, separate topic. It could have been posted in the GOA news, info, etc. topic.

Actually I think the whole LRT fiasco deserves a thread of its own in order that we can have a proper discussion on it, any points made tend to get lost in the general thread and its such an important subject it should be debated.

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Original article: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Transit+...8155/story.html

Why not convert Coorkstown Road to BRT (or future LRT) west of Moodie? There is plenty of space between Moodie and Bayshore to not rampaged the Greenbelt.
How will anyone access the city's campground, city's equestrian park and the private farm, all located on that stretch? Plus the rail crossing will be a slight hindrance to the overall efficiency of the western leg.

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Original article: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Transit+...8155/story.html

How will anyone access the city's campground, city's equestrian park and the private farm, all located on that stretch? Plus the rail crossing will be a slight hindrance to the overall efficiency of the western leg.

Have it accessible via Moodie Drive. Shouldn't be much of a problem looking at the aerial maps. Coorkstown rather then curving after Moodie should continue straight towards the facilities. You can do the similar thing east of Eagleson having a small access road to the couple of buildings right there.

As for the railway crossing about halfway, not sure but it might be like after Fallowfield Station unless they would decide to put the Transitway below or above grade. But there is a lot less rail (none?) traffic compared to Fallowfield which should have being put below grade when they've built it.

But reviewing the maps, there is sufficent space between Corkstown and the 417 (providing they would not widen it too much - but there is no need for a 12-lane highway) to built the Transitway between the two. There might simply be some slight re-alignments of Corkstown at both ends, so we might not needs to convert it anyways. There is one area where a bridge over Watt's Creek that would have to be built along the path. The cycling path would also have to be re-aligned to the north before Corkstown (east side of Moodie)

Again looking at the maps, there will be little if not impacts on the Greenbelt so the NCC is probably just making noise.

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The other option would be to convert the stretch of Corkstown road from the campground to March Rd. into Transitway, and have the buses run along Corkstown for the rest of the run. The only non-bus traffic at that point would be going into the few things on Corkstown as people couldn't use it as a 417 bypass.

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As for the railway crossing about halfway, not sure but it might be like after Fallowfield Station unless they would decide to put the Transitway below or above grade. But there is a lot less rail (none?) traffic compared to Fallowfield which should have being put below grade when they've built it.
Yeah exactly, there is no real railway traffic anymore.
But reviewing the maps, there is sufficent space between Corkstown and the 417 (providing they would not widen it too much - but there is no need for a 12-lane highway) to built the Transitway between the two. There might simply be some slight re-alignments of Corkstown at both ends, so we might not needs to convert it anyways. There is one area where a bridge over Watt's Creek that would have to be built along the path. The cycling path would also have to be re-aligned to the north before Corkstown (east side of Moodie)
Looking at maps too, this would be a great section to convert to the Transitway. All you would have to do at both ends is put it under the interchange. (Like at Bayshore and in the future at Pinecrest)
Again looking at the maps, there will be little if not impacts on the Greenbelt so the NCC is probably just making noise.
Exactly. If they convert Corkstown to part of the Transitway, nothing new will be built. And the NCC better not use emissions as a excuse, because the buses will still use the 417 if nothing is done, which means the same emissions will still exist.

Besides, why not let some transit through the Greenbelt? They allowed the Fallowfield Transitway to be built. Also it's not as bad as building a brand new Hunt Club Road from Hunt Club and Hawthorne to the 417 which it has appeared that the NCC ain't complaining about that. Not to mention this new road will be 4 lanes wide.

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Have it accessible via Moodie Drive. Shouldn't be much of a problem looking at the aerial maps. Coorkstown rather then curving after Moodie should continue straight towards the facilities. You can do the similar thing east of Eagleson having a small access road to the couple of buildings right there.

Still doesn't do much for accessing the campground. They're two separate facilities, one beside the other. Access to the equestrian park would be fairly simple from Moodie, sure, but there would be no access to the campground without having to build on the equestrian park's property (not to mention a complete restructuring of the park's land use to build a new accessway). Furthermore, there is a nature trail (with parking) right beside the tracks. Access to that would be completely blocked off.

You can reason all you want by looking at maps but converting Corkstown to transitway will not be a viable option. There is too much infrastructure along that stretch that requires the road to be there. Converting a lane in each direction of the 417 will offer the least impact in terms of construction.

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"Cullen said HRT has benefits: It’s cheaper than LRT, has faster acceleration and can carry more passengers."

Cheaper eh? Anyway it seems like the city has totally forgotten about the subway report that already exists that was done up in 1973.

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As for the Transitway expansion between Bayshore and Moodie -- the NCC doesn't know what they are talking about.

An Environmental Assessment (EA) along that stretch was undertaken in the 90s and was completed in 1996 (where the Ministry of Environment approved the EA). The Transitway was envisaged to be built from Bayshore to Kanata Town Centre on the north-side of Hwy 417. During the EA process, all applicable agencies/parties were consulted, including the NCC.

Not quite... An EA was done in 1994 that determined the West Transitway routing from the Southwest Transitway all the way to Holly Acres. West of Holly Acres they illustrated an 'optional' alignment to Moodie on the north side of the 417, but this addition was not approved by the MoE. In 1997 another EA determined the routing of the West Transitway from "just east of Moodie" to "just east of Terry Fox". What has never been studied and then approved by the MoE is the routing between Holly Acres and Moodie, which is why it has to be done now.

The above is from the documents of the current study, available on Councillor Cullen's website.

Why not convert Coorkstown Road to BRT (or future LRT) west of Moodie? There is plenty of space between Moodie and Bayshore to not rampaged the Greenbelt. So I don't know what's the problem with the NCC. But of course the NCC is the NCC... an anti-transit organization behind very cozy to regular motorists and developers but not for greener initiatives. As far as I know it is 2009 not 1969.

An EA in 1997 determined that a future West Transitway from Moodie to March would go in the space between Hwy 417 and Corkstown Rd. However, the 2008 TMP background documents envision that the new MTO bus lanes will be used for another generation at least. In that sense, the entire point of this current study is flawed - it's trying to figure out how to connect the transitway at Bayshore with a notional future transitway west of Moodie that likely never will be built rather than trying to figure out how to connect Bayshore with the bus lanes west of Moodie.

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This thread should be renamed to just "Rapid Transit". At the rate we're going, it'll be a long time before we'll see any "development"...... :D

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Gawd will this LRT/HRT ever be built?

From the Ottawa Sun

'Barrhaven Bullet' a quick route to rail transit

Coun. Jan Harder reveals proposal developed in 1998

By DEREK PUDDICOMBE, CITY HALL BUREAU

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An artist's drawing of the 'Barrhaven Bullet' commuter rail service that was proposed in 1998.

The Barrhaven Bullet may be just the rail line to get commuters from the south-west end of the city to downtown.

With the possibility of an electric heavy rail transit option for commuters, Barrhaven Coun. Jan Harder says it’s time to renew an 11-year-old rail transit plan proposed by UniRail Canada Inc. to run a heavy rail commuter line from Barrhaven to downtown using existing rail lines.

Harder wants the city to head back to the table and talk with VIA, the company that operates the rail corridor between Barrhaven and Ottawa’s central VIA station.

“I think it should be looked at,” said Harder. “It’s the perfect line.”

Harder said that the cost of building light rail transit (LRT) is too much and now is the ideal time to renew the effort to convince VIA that the 18.5 km Barrhaven to Ottawa rail corridor can work.

“(LRT) cost overruns are so prohibitive that the public won’t be able to tolerate it,” said Harder, who refers to the potential line as the Barrhaven Bullet.

The 1998 report, which was tabled before the Ottawa-Carleton regional government, suggested it would require a small capital investment and could get rolling right away. The average speed between the proposed 10 transit stations along the route — including ones at Billings Bridge, the Merivale and Colonnade business parks and the Walkley transit station — would be 50 km/h, it would generate almost 4,000 rides per day and take less than 20 minutes to get from Barrhaven to the VIA station.

“The CN Barrhaven-Ottawa station corridor when compared with other options indicates a greater potential to attract new ridership to the rail transit service as well as establishing integration with existing transitway corridors and services,” says the report.

Council colleague Gloucester-South Nepean Coun. Steve Desroches supports Harder’s idea.

“It’s an opportunity we shouldn’t pass over,” said Desroches, who among other councillors is surprised by an option to build an electric heavy rail transit line that the city will bring to council next month. He is now questioning the city’s commitment to build LRT.

With a VIA station already located in Barrhaven, Desroches would also like to explore the opportunity to help VIA fill any empty seats with commuters on its regularly scheduled operations from Barrhaven to downtown.

“The timeline to bring LRT to Barrhaven is such that using the existing rail corridor is an opportunity to bring commuter rail to Barrhaven,” he said.

derek.puddicombe@sunmedia.ca

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Gawd will this LRT/HRT ever be built?

From the Ottawa Sun

I personally would like to see peak service established in the existing rail corridors, like Montreal's AMT. Riders could easily transfer to the new downtown LR at the Via Rail Station from as far as Pembroke, Shawville, Smiths Falls and Alexandria.

But of course the NCC would not want stations built on their land, even though a station at the QCH and on Riverside would have been useful. :-/

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The NCC alone is causing problems in two if not three areas planned in the network (including the Moodie/Corkstown area). Then at least two due to NIMBY opposition.

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The NCC alone is causing problems in two if not three areas planned in the network (including the Moodie/Corkstown area). Then at least two due to NIMBY opposition.

I *so* hope the NCC completely shuts down the idea of LRT on the Ottawa River Parkway. It's ridiculous to put something that is intended to promote high-density growth where no growth is possible.

I know the people along Byron/Richmond would complain enormously, but clearly the Byron Strip is the best routing through that area, bar none.

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Ottawa LRT cost jumps to $2.1B

Controversy grows as municipal election year looms scott

CBC News--The first section of Ottawa's new rapid transit line will cost hundreds of millions more than previously estimated.

Light rail between Blair Road and Tunney's Pasture, including a three-kilometre downtown tunnel, will cost $2.1 billion, city staff estimated Friday. That's $400 million more than their December 2008 estimate and $300 million more than the estimate in the city's recent funding request to the federal and provincial governments.

Nevertheless, staff calculated the city can shoulder its one-third share of the cost. The provincial and federal governments are expected to split the remaining two-thirds.

"I think we're well-prepared to go and have a really good discussion with the province and the feds," said Nancy Schepers, deputy city manager of infrastructure services, after presenting the numbers to city council. "We have a very, very sound plan."

City staff said they consulted with experienced firms involved in transportation and tunnelling projects to come up with their latest cost estimate, and had it reviewed by a "major" international engineering and project management firm.

Alex Cullen, chair of the city's transit committee and councillor for Bay ward, acknowledged the transit plan is a big investment. But he noted, "What we've heard today is that this a project the city can afford."

Election issue

Cullen said the plan is one that will transform the city by reducing downtown congestion and save money that would otherwise be spent on 1,000 new buses.

"I think we have to do it," he added. "We need this tunnel today, as a matter of fact."

When asked if he thought the the transit plan will be a big issue in the 2010 municipal election, Cullen said he thought it "absolutely" would be.

Coun. Diane Deans, who represents Gloucester-Southgate, has already publicly expressed her concerns about the plan's ballooning costs.

"And we're nowhere near putting a spade in the ground yet," she said. "I'm very concerned about whether or not our funding partners would even consider funding a project as costs are rising this much."

They're also becoming too much for taxpayers to bear, she said. "We were hoping to put a tunnel in the ground, not drive the city into the ground."

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It gets better:

Premier to city: Make up your mind on LRT

By DEREK PUDDICOMBE, City Hall Bureau

Last Updated: 29th October 2009, 7:06am

In the face of the rising cost estimate to build rapid rail in Ottawa, Premier Dalton McGuinty says the city needs to decide what it can afford to build.

“I think costs have escalated rather dramatically in terms of estimates,” McGuinty said Wednesday. “I think what we need to do now is to sit down and, in a very sober-minded way, talk this through and decide what it is that we can all afford.”

The federal and provincial governments have each committed $200 million for a rapid rail project but haven’t informed the city if they intend to hand over any more money.

Last week, the city released a cost estimate for a light-rail line from Blair Rd. to Tunney’s Pasture, including a 3.2-km downtown tunnel, which has risen to $2.1 billion from $1.4 billion — a 50% increase. Ontario Municipal Affairs and Housing Minister Jim Watson said the plan is becoming unaffordable for all levels of government.

“The issue, of course, is how much can we do, how quickly can we do it and how much is it all going to cost? Those are real issues,” said McGuinty.

Mayor Larry O’Brien responded with a letter to McGuinty Wednesday, inviting him to meet with city officials to discuss the plan and address the province’s concerns.

In an interview, O’Brien said the city has already made up its mind and a tunnel is the only way to take buses out of the congested downtown.

“We will show him why this is the only plan for the city,” said O’Brien.

Some city councillors are pleased the premier is weighing in on the debate and McGuinty is right that the city, province and federal government need to now sit down and discuss the next step.

“I’m encouraged what the premier said. Let’s sit down and talk,” said Cumberland Coun. Rob Jellett. “We have to build a system for the whole city.”

Alta Vista Coun. Peter Hume, chairman of the city’s planning and environment committee, said Ottawa’s rising cost estimates are no different than those of other municipalities.

Gloucester-Southgate Coun. Diane Deans said McGuinty’s comments are cause for concern.

“With rising costs, I think we need to take a step back to ask, is it time to build a tunnel?”

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