Nova Bus LFS (all models)

[Kumiko Oumae]

On 9/20/2023 at 12:02 PM, Megabus Rider said:

Who owns Novabus?

On 9/20/2023 at 12:07 PM, G.A said:

It's part of Volvo.

A small history lesson:

NovaBUS started out as the General Motors bus plant in Ste. Eustache, the same plant where all the Fishbowls and Classics were made, in 1979 after GMDD moved its operations from London. This became the MCI plant after GM sold its bus holdings to MCI/TMC in 1987 but after Dial pulled out of the transit market, NovaBUS was formed in 1993 by Nova Quintech, founded in 1991 after it acquired the assets of a bankrupt fire truck manufacturer Camions Pierre. Dial spun off MCI/TMC and merged with Mexican bus maker DINA S.A., who later sold the longtime TMC Roswell plant to Nova in 1994. The LFS made its debut in 1995, this discontinuing the Classic in 1997. Henlys and Volvo jointly acquired NovaBUS in 1998, closed and sold its Roswell plant and rights to the RTS to Millennium Transit Services in 2002, leaving the LFS as the sole bus model manufactured by Nova. After Henlys was placed into administration, Volvo acquired the remaining interest of NovaBUS in 2004 and took over its Prevost business. In 2008, NovaBUS opened its new plant in Plattsburgh, which then re-entered the U.S. market. Then earlier in the year 2023, NovaBUS started to wound down the Plattsburgh plant by 2025 leaving the Ste. Eustache plant and orders for US systems unknown.

[Kumiko Oumae]

Coming soon: A Proterra-powered LFSe+.

Volvo acquired Proterra's battery business.

[Bus_Dealership]

10 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

Coming soon: A Proterra-powered LFSe+.

Volvo acquired Proterra's battery business.

more like a volvo EV powered LFSe+, since volvo bought proterra

i doubt they would keep the proterra name

[Glennwood Road Ent.]

11 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

Coming soon: A Proterra-powered LFSe+.

Volvo acquired Proterra's battery business.

Are these batteries will be built in Sweden mostly by Volvo due to federal requirements? 

[FlyerD901]

I guess with Volvo acquiring Proterra this makes sense. 

But at the same time , it's too bad they're not reconsidering they're decision to stay in the States after the proterra deal. 

I do hope Nova has a new bus to replace the LFS. Or at least redesign the front of the bus ergonomics. 

16 hours ago, MiExpress said:

The current Metrolinx TPI contract with Nova Bus for diesel, CNG and hybrid buses expires at the end of January, with orders for LFS buses still being able to be placed until then.

A new procurement for diesel, CNG and hybrid buses for delivery in years 2025 and beyond closed on December 6. According to a recent Timmins report, Nova Bus did not bid on this procurement. The Timmins staff report appears to equate this with a supposed upcoming switch by Nova to manufacture electric buses.

"During the 2023 Canadian Urban Transportation Association ( CUTA) conference in Edmonton, Nova Bus representatives informed staff during a closed- door confidential meeting of their plans to ramp up battery electric buses. In order to fulfill the orders of battery electric buses Nova Bus has decided to withdraw from diesel bus manufacturing..."

https://timmins.civicweb.net/document/152176/TRA-2024-01-16-Admin Report-Procurement of Four Co.pdf?handle=E9E47BF040B74161A6DCCB467F3291C4

[FlyerD901]

With Nova focusing on electric buses , and leaving the US market, this might be a stretch, but I wonder if Nova is potential on a chopping block. Or Volvo might sell it off, and focus on the battery part of the business? 

I know they've survived before re entering the States, but they're even pulling out of Diesel bus production. Sounds like a huge gamble , considering it's still a lot of trial and error with Ebuses. Even Bem Case from TTC was questioning their trust of Ebuses at a recent TTC board meeting. 

I guess 2025 will bring more clarity.

 

[MCIBUS]

The catch is the PQ Government has a certain % of Nova(not sure how much).

As for transit most are going Electric and some Hybrid.

I don't see the Motor Coach industry going Electric(though there some) fully like transit not for some years to come. Not until they can get the batteries to last a long long time?

[Mike]

9 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

The catch is the PQ Government has a certain % of Nova(not sure how much).

Volvo owns 100% of Nova (and Prevost).  PQ government may require or strongly encourage Quebec transit agencies to buy Nova buses but they do not have direct ownership in the business.

[Glennwood Road Ent.]

What about Nova Bus order for Caribbean countries? 

[G.A]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:13 AM, Glennwood Road Ent. said:

What about Nova Bus order for Caribbean countries? 

If you're talking about the US Territories. I would assume they fall under the Build America rules.

[Glennwood Road Ent.]

2 hours ago, G.A said:

If you're talking about the US Territories. I would assume they fall under the Build America rules.

What about Europe and Latin America markets? 

[Mike]

14 hours ago, Glennwood Road Ent. said:

What about Europe and Latin America markets? 

Volvo has production facilities in Brazil, Mexico, Poland and Sweden to handle European and Latin American markets.  There is no point for Volvo to import Nova into those markets to compete with their main brand.

[Glennwood Road Ent.]

20 hours ago, G.A said:

If you're talking about the US Territories. I would assume they fall under the Build America rules.

That's correct, IIRC, Puerto Rico has one of RTS and LFS in the Caribbean Region and were imported from Mainland USA via Florida by mailboat and I'm not sure if US Virgin Islands has any of them if my opinion. 

 

2 hours ago, Mike said:

Volvo has production facilities in Brazil, Mexico, Poland and Sweden to handle European and Latin American markets.  There is no point for Volvo to import Nova into those markets to compete with their main brand.

Thanks. 

20 hours ago, G.A said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mike said:

 

 

Edited January 24 by Glennwood Road Ent.

[FlyerD901]

Quebec gives Nova Bus $19M loan despite its job cuts

The forgivable loan through Investissement Québec came just before the bus manufacturer announced it would cut 125 jobs in Plattsburgh.

 

Forgivable loan probably means, please don't shut down the Quebec facility. 

I'm waiting until 2025 and the US elections, but I'm sure Nova at this rate is close to shutting down. Not fulfilling Diesel bus orders , focusing on eBuses that still has a lot of improvement that needs to happen.

Obviously I don't know the industry well, but it doesn't look good either. 

[Mike]

6 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

Quebec gives Nova Bus $19M loan despite its job cuts

The forgivable loan through Investissement Québec came just before the bus manufacturer announced it would cut 125 jobs in Plattsburgh.

 

Forgivable loan probably means, please don't shut down the Quebec facility. 

I'm waiting until 2025 and the US elections, but I'm sure Nova at this rate is close to shutting down. Not fulfilling Diesel bus orders , focusing on eBuses that still has a lot of improvement that needs to happen.

Obviously I don't know the industry well, but it doesn't look good either. 

The article seems pretty clear that Volvo doesn’t intend on shutting Nova down in Canada - only on exiting the US market.  The US election has no bearing on its orders in Canada which are still a priority (and worth 2.1 billion).

[MCIBUS]

Assume Donald gets in again, has Buy America Only,  and assuming Volo(which I dought)shuts down Nova and try to sell Volvo transit buses here but not made here, the Quebec government can easily say Buy Canadian only if u want to get subs for your transit fleets in Quebec. Volo would be shooting them selves in the foot.

 

With E-Buses more or less being the future of transit buses be it Nova, NFI, Gilling, Man, Setra, Mercedes, Neoplan, and basically all the others out there going Electric, I can see why Nova is going E-Buses only. As why they left the US Market is any ones guess, but lets face reality Electric  transportation is the wave of the future be it cars, trucks, buses (Trolley & battery), LRTs, Trains, etc, electric is coming like it or not, but that's the wave of the future. Is it good? Only time will tell.

[Mike]

1 hour ago, MCIBUS said:

Assume Donald gets in again, has Buy America Only,  and assuming Volo(which I dought)shuts down Nova and try to sell Volvo transit buses here but not made here, the Quebec government can easily say Buy Canadian only if u want to get subs for your transit fleets in Quebec. Volo would be shooting them selves in the foot.

You are not making any sense.  Nova (Volvo) already committed to leaving the US market in 2025 so whether Trump wins or not is irrelevant for Nova. The 2.1 billion e-bus order that Nova got is from Quebec transit agencies so you can pretty much guarantee that Quebec government will make sure that the Nova is around to build those buses.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they would get CDPQ to invest in Nova (on the off chance Volvo decides to close down Nova) if it meant jobs are preserved and buses are built in Quebec.

[FlyerD901]

I can see Volvo wanting to get rid of Nova. But I don't see Quebec giving up that easily either. 

I do see the government taking over until another buyer is interested to preserve jobs. 

But for Volvo to further reduce what they offer is definitely some kind of sign. I get electric vehicles are the future. But I also don't think they're ready for mass production or operations. 

But we'll see how things play out. 

[Antonov AN-225 Mriya]

Volvo Already outsourcing Bus and Coach Body to MCV and Sunsundegui And Only Focus on Chassis manufacture in Europen or Asia Markets , NovaBus and Prevost is only two left full bus build under volvo group.

[Mike]

4 hours ago, Antonov AN-225 Mriya said:

Volvo Already outsourcing Bus and Coach Body to MCV and Sunsundegui And Only Focus on Chassis manufacture in Europen or Asia Markets , NovaBus and Prevost is only two left full bus build under volvo group.

The main difference is that in European and Asian markets  Volvo has been competing against itself for years by offering both complete buses and chassis only. In North America it has not offered chassis-only option and I don’t think NFI or Gillig would have spare capacity to build bodies and setting up new coach works isn’t a an easy or cheap process.

[Conductor23]

 

It's interesting to see the different market strategies Volvo has employed in Europe, Asia, and North America regarding complete buses and chassis-only options. Offering both seems to provide flexibility and cater to diverse market demands. Adapting to each region's dynamics, especially in terms of manufacturing capacities and customer preferences, is crucial. Setting up new coach works indeed presents its own challenges. Do you think Volvo's approach in North America might evolve in the future, considering market trends and demands?

[RailBus63]

21 hours ago, Conductor23 said:

 

It's interesting to see the different market strategies Volvo has employed in Europe, Asia, and North America regarding complete buses and chassis-only options. Offering both seems to provide flexibility and cater to diverse market demands. Adapting to each region's dynamics, especially in terms of manufacturing capacities and customer preferences, is crucial. Setting up new coach works indeed presents its own challenges. Do you think Volvo's approach in North America might evolve in the future, considering market trends and demands?

I don't see the separation of bus body and chassis building ever becoming widespread in North America, because any company investing in the body business would need Gillig. NFI and others to be willing to join Nova in this endeavor and that doesn't seem realistic. What would a Gillig or New Flyer have to offer if they didn't build the entire bus?  It's not like they design and build their own engines and transmissions. 

[Bus_Dealership]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, FlyerD901 said:

Quebec gives Nova Bus $19M loan despite its job cuts

The forgivable loan through Investissement Québec came just before the bus manufacturer announced it would cut 125 jobs in Plattsburgh.

 

Forgivable loan probably means, please don't shut down the Quebec facility. 

I'm waiting until 2025 and the US elections, but I'm sure Nova at this rate is close to shutting down. Not fulfilling Diesel bus orders , focusing on eBuses that still has a lot of improvement that needs to happen.

Obviously I don't know the industry well, but it doesn't look good either. 

New flyer wins once again

[FlyerD901]

9 minutes ago, Bus_Dealership said:

New flyer wins once again

Don't let my baseless assessment come off as factual. 

NFI had to borrow money from the federal government as well. 

For all we know, Nova is simply restructuring , and they'll come out with a new model and surprise everyone.

[Bus_Medic]

19 million is chump change compared to what Flyer receives.