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On 7/11/2021 at 9:29 PM, ghYHZ said:

 

VIA has been running a Park Car on the back of the Renaissance equipment for years. But when the Ocean returns next month it can no longer be turned in Halifax so the Park Car is being dropped from the consist. There is still hope a Skyline Dome might be added when social distancing onboard permits.

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VIA would have to modify the dome seating to include seats which turn at each terminus but it seems like a likely addition once non essential activities are allowed again

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2 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

VIA would have to modify the dome seating to include seats which turn at each terminus but it seems like a likely addition once non essential activities are allowed again

How many trainsets are there for the ocean if the services return to pre-pandrmic levels. 

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15 hours ago, Shaun said:

How many trainsets are there for the ocean if the services return to pre-pandrmic levels. 

The schedule requires two sets, but you'd likely want to have a third trainset, to allow for unavailabilities due to maintenance and repairs...

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22 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

VIA would have to modify the dome seating to include seats which turn at each terminus but it seems like a likely addition once non essential activities are allowed again

 

Back in their CP Rail days.....a couple of VIA's Skyline Domes did have reversible seats when they ran on the Atlantic Limited between Montreal and Saint John. The Atlantic Limited was not turned in Saint John so the seats were flipped-over. The Alaska Railroad has a similar type of seat in their domes. (around the 7:30 minute mark in this video below) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Z2pxi5jjk&t=475s

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

With the Cn derailment in Prescott this morning. Via has been running The Toronto <~> Montreal trains via Ottawa (some as J Trains) 

Here’s Train 66/46 passing Mp 2.02 on the Beachburg sub (Not the greatest shots though. 

C1630412-2432-435E-A8A1-EE3D3EF26994.thumb.jpeg.baf6b5415d09340013710b0e3f1219c3.jpeg

 

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12 hours ago, Oc4526 said:

With the Cn derailment in Prescott this morning. Via has been running The Toronto <~> Montreal trains via Ottawa (some as J Trains) 

Here’s Train 66/46 passing Mp 2.02 on the Beachburg sub (Not the greatest shots though.
 

Great example of why VIA needs its own trackage for the whole line.

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On 8/22/2021 at 10:04 AM, Urban Sky said:

The schedule requires two sets, but you'd likely want to have a third trainset, to allow for unavailabilities due to maintenance and repairs...

Intriguing. According to information i have, there actually isn't enough Renaissance cars to have all 3 sets or whatever be mixed sets, correct? Or is this wrong? I understand the Ren to BUDD ratios can be different for each set. 

On 8/22/2021 at 12:31 PM, ghYHZ said:

 

Back in their CP Rail days.....a couple of VIA's Skyline Domes did have reversible seats when they ran on the Atlantic Limited between Montreal and Saint John. The Atlantic Limited was not turned in Saint John so the seats were flipped-over. The Alaska Railroad has a similar type of seat in their domes. (around the 7:30 minute mark in this video below) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Z2pxi5jjk&t=475s

 

Interesting though i doubt this survived to modern day but i could be wrong. Perhaps there is still a couple of Skylines with reversible seating. We'll have to see. Incidentally, i travelled on the Ocean on the 1st of September. That was according to my sleeping car attendant, the very first day that the dining car was open to sleeper plus passengers only (and i believe it was also limited seatings) and the service lounges were open but only for using the wifi and mingling. Canteens were still closed with the temporary at seat cart service in economy and going to the sleeping car attendant in sleeper plus still the system they were using. 

On 9/2/2021 at 10:09 PM, Oc4526 said:

With the Cn derailment in Prescott this morning. Via has been running The Toronto <~> Montreal trains via Ottawa (some as J Trains) 

Here’s Train 66/46 passing Mp 2.02 on the Beachburg sub (Not the greatest shots though. 

C1630412-2432-435E-A8A1-EE3D3EF26994.thumb.jpeg.baf6b5415d09340013710b0e3f1219c3.jpeg

 

02F9D3EA-DF6D-4CBB-911D-CDD76E74FC11.thumb.jpeg.8b6c814e0e8bb62412fa3accf8439f7b.jpeg
 

I was on train 65 which merged with train 35 for Ottawa which became train 55 in Ottawa. 65 had a rebuilt BUDD and 2 skylines tacked onto the back headed for presumably Mimico. So Ottawa got to see skyline domes for the first time in 35 years.  

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17 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

Interesting though i doubt this survived to modern day but i could be wrong. Perhaps there is still a couple of Skylines with reversible seating. We'll have to see.

Those CP Rail 'Skylines' with the reversible seats would have been rebuilt into the standard configuration prior to or along with the rest of the Skylines and Stainless Steel cars in VIA's HEP1 program of the late '80s/early '90s.

CP's Atlantic Limited lost the Skylines when VIA took over in 1979 and extended the train to Halifax. Domes didn't return to the Atlantic until it was reinstated in June 1985 and a Park Car was added.

 

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On 9/10/2021 at 7:18 PM, lifty4ever said:

Intriguing. According to information i have, there actually isn't enough Renaissance cars to have all 3 sets or whatever be mixed sets, correct? Or is this wrong? I understand the Ren to BUDD ratios can be different for each set. 

Interesting though i doubt this survived to modern day but i could be wrong. Perhaps there is still a couple of Skylines with reversible seating. We'll have to see. Incidentally, i travelled on the Ocean on the 1st of September. That was according to my sleeping car attendant, the very first day that the dining car was open to sleeper plus passengers only (and i believe it was also limited seatings) and the service lounges were open but only for using the wifi and mingling. Canteens were still closed with the temporary at seat cart service in economy and going to the sleeping car attendant in sleeper plus still the system they were using. 

I was on train 65 which merged with train 35 for Ottawa which became train 55 in Ottawa. 65 had a rebuilt BUDD and 2 skylines tacked onto the back headed for presumably Mimico. So Ottawa got to see skyline domes for the first time in 35 years.  

I guess they had some work done during the pandemic and are needed on the Canadian? 

Are they repainting any of them like the bud cars?

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On 9/10/2021 at 7:18 PM, lifty4ever said:

Intriguing. According to information i have, there actually isn't enough Renaissance cars to have all 3 sets or whatever be mixed sets, correct? Or is this wrong? I understand the Ren to BUDD ratios can be different for each set.  

There is indeed no full third set, but there is at least one spare for every car type (e.g. Baggage - Economy - accessible Economy - Service - Diner - accessible Sleeper - Sleeper - Baggage Transition)...

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On 9/12/2021 at 8:30 AM, Shaun said:

I guess they had some work done during the pandemic and are needed on the Canadian? 

Are they repainting any of them like the bud cars?

I know a bunch of HEP1 and HEP2 cars are undergoing a refurbishment. I also know the Canadian needs more spares in case of a sudden necessity to replace a car or two. Interestingly, VIA seem to not have any plans to refurbish the Chateau sleeper cars seen mostly in the east and on the Hudson Bay. The Chateaus (Minus the converted cars) haven't been refurbished since the 90s. Even the Manor's are getting refurbishments. There are plenty of refurbished cars which haven't been repainted yet. The HEP1 coaches currently on the Ocean are such examples.

On 9/12/2021 at 4:43 PM, Urban Sky said:

There is indeed no full third set, but there is at least one spare for every car type (e.g. Baggage - Economy - accessible Economy - Service - Diner - accessible Sleeper - Sleeper - Baggage Transition)...

Intriguing. It'll be interesting to see what the other built up sets look like once the frequency increases which isn't to be for a good while yet. 

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23 hours ago, Shaun said:

They should look at ordering a sleeper version of the Venture cars or Viewliner sleepers. Of course funding is a problem. 

The Venture cars have yet to be offered in a Sleeper version and the Viewliner have far too few bedrooms (as opposed to Roomettes) to be a satisfactory fit for any of VIA's overnight routes...

Edited by Urban Sky
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17 hours ago, Urban Sky said:

The Venture cars have yet to be offered in a Sleeper version and the Viewliner have far too few bedrooms (as opposed to Roomettes) to be a satisfactory fit for any of VIA's overnight routes...

I can't speak to the Venture cars (although knowing Siemens, they likely have an eye towards any potential future usage of the design), but the Viewliners are designed in a completely modular manner. The current bedrooms are designed as a single bedroom per module that then gets installed into the car shell - there seems to be no reason why other modules that are better suited for VIA Rail's needs could not be designed and fabricated to fit.

 

So long as it fits into the side access, I think that it would fair to assume that just about any configuration could be designed - even ones that closely match VIA's existing fleets.

 

Dan

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5 hours ago, smallspy said:

I can't speak to the Venture cars (although knowing Siemens, they likely have an eye towards any potential future usage of the design), but the Viewliners are designed in a completely modular manner. The current bedrooms are designed as a single bedroom per module that then gets installed into the car shell - there seems to be no reason why other modules that are better suited for VIA Rail's needs could not be designed and fabricated to fit.

 

So long as it fits into the side access, I think that it would fair to assume that just about any configuration could be designed - even ones that closely match VIA's existing fleets.

 

Dan

Agreed, but can the boarding height match with the high-level platforms in Quebec, Montreal and Ottawa?

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2 hours ago, Urban Sky said:

Agreed, but can the boarding height match with the high-level platforms in Quebec, Montreal and Ottawa?

Yes. The Siemens Venture cars are built to a 48" platform height, which is the standard high-level platform height in North America. Amtrak's versions of the cars are(/will be) using high-level platforms in the US, and I sincerely hope VIA did not order cars that wouldn't work with their platforms.

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1 hour ago, Articulated said:

Yes. The Siemens Venture cars are built to a 48" platform height, which is the standard high-level platform height in North America. Amtrak's versions of the cars are(/will be) using high-level platforms in the US, and I sincerely hope VIA did not order cars that wouldn't work with their platforms.

I was talking about the Viewliners, since we have established that their interiors are modular and their configuration thus flexible, whereas the Chargers have so far not been offered in any Sleeper configuration...

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4 minutes ago, Urban Sky said:

I was talking about the Viewliners, since we have established that their interiors are modular and their configuration thus flexible, whereas the Chargers have so far not been offered in any Sleeper configuration...

The Viewliners serve high-level platforms in the US without issue. All rolling stock in the US for decades have been built with the understanding that 48" is the North American standard for high-level platforms.

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1 hour ago, Articulated said:

The Viewliners serve high-level platforms in the US without issue. All rolling stock in the US for decades have been built with the understanding that 48" is the North American standard for high-level platforms.

Strangely, they seem to be built with a platform height of 51", which would not be incompatible with 48", but still leave a 3" gap with the associated accessibility issues which kind of defeat the purpose of level boarding. But in any case, the last Viewliner II was delivered half a decade ago, which raises serious questions whether a production line would be still available for a comparatively small order from VIA...

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1 hour ago, Urban Sky said:

Strangely, they seem to be built with a platform height of 51", which would not be incompatible with 48", but still leave a 3" gap with the associated accessibility issues which kind of defeat the purpose of level boarding. But in any case, the last Viewliner II was delivered half a decade ago, which raises serious questions whether a production line would be still available for a comparatively small order from VIA...

When a Viewliner is attached to an Amfleet coach.....how do they compensate for that 3" difference at the diaphragm plate between cars?

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11 hours ago, Urban Sky said:

Strangely, they seem to be built with a platform height of 51", which would not be incompatible with 48", but still leave a 3" gap with the associated accessibility issues which kind of defeat the purpose of level boarding. But in any case, the last Viewliner II was delivered half a decade ago, which raises serious questions whether a production line would be still available for a comparatively small order from VIA...

It's slightly more complex than that - and the Wikipedia page is somewhat misleading.

 

The door threshold is built at (more-or-less) 48" off of the top of the rail. This is the standard. There is a bit of tolerance to account for things like worn wheels, the loaded or unloaded condition of the car, etc., but over time the cars are able to maintain a height pretty close to this.

 

The floor height within the cars is built at 51". This is, again, basically a standard. All cars built with a solid centre sill - so basically every car that isn't low-floor - since the late 1800s have been built with the floor at this height.

 

So, the discrepancy, you ask? For those old enough to remember, virtually all of the 1940s- and 1950s-built lightweight equipment was built with a large cast threshold to pass from the vestibule to the interior of the car. As the vestibule of the car was flat across the width of the car, you had to step over it upon entry into the car and it concealed the differences in height. Most heavyweights were also built this way. Modern cars, and those rebuilt with wheelchair access, instead slope the floor from the door threshold to the centre of the car.

 

Dan

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3 hours ago, smallspy said:

It's slightly more complex than that - and the Wikipedia page is somewhat misleading.

 

The door threshold is built at (more-or-less) 48" off of the top of the rail. This is the standard. There is a bit of tolerance to account for things like worn wheels, the loaded or unloaded condition of the car, etc., but over time the cars are able to maintain a height pretty close to this.

 

The floor height within the cars is built at 51". This is, again, basically a standard. All cars built with a solid centre sill - so basically every car that isn't low-floor - since the late 1800s have been built with the floor at this height.

 

So, the discrepancy, you ask? For those old enough to remember, virtually all of the 1940s- and 1950s-built lightweight equipment was built with a large cast threshold to pass from the vestibule to the interior of the car. As the vestibule of the car was flat across the width of the car, you had to step over it upon entry into the car and it concealed the differences in height. Most heavyweights were also built this way. Modern cars, and those rebuilt with wheelchair access, instead slope the floor from the door threshold to the centre of the car.

 

Dan

Thank you for this detailed explanation!

I guess the main barrier to VIA purchasing Viewliners is the problem that you can only buy what someone is willing to sell/produce...

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4 minutes ago, Urban Sky said:

Thank you for this detailed explanation!

I guess the main barrier to VIA purchasing Viewliners is the problem that you can only buy what someone is willing to sell/produce...

Well AMTRAK is going to be submitting a tender to replace AMFLEET and Superliners so someone will be building something, which means VIA can tack on to it if required. 

Do they usually board from the sleeper cars? I thought they usually board through the coach and then you make your way through to the car that you are assigned to?

 

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Do they usually board from the sleeper cars? I thought they usually board through the coach and then you make your way through to the car that you are assigned to?

Yes you board at the sleeping car you are assigned to. The attendant will meet you on the platform. One door might be open between two cars and the attendant will tell you to take a left or right at the top of the steps......or sometimes take you right to you room. 

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On 9/15/2021 at 8:22 AM, Shaun said:

They should look at ordering a sleeper version of the Venture cars or Viewliner sleepers. Of course funding is a problem. 

One idea i had and it might be a short sighted one tbh but VIA could buy some of Amtrak's outgoing Amfleet I cars and use those. Yes they are rather old but then so are our BUDDs by an extra 20-30 years and they're still going strong so it wouldn't be the worst idea, The coaches could be converted for long distance use (Amfleet Is are for corridor use) and some could be converted into diners and potentially, sleepers. Amfleet sleepers did exist at one time but i think they were test mules for Amtrak to decide how they wanted the Viewliner to be. We need to start thinking more green anyway and if Amtrak were just gonna scrap a bunch of em, why not let VIA buy some for their own use. It would also solve the whole Renaissance fleet needs replacing this decade thing. 

5 hours ago, Urban Sky said:

Thank you for this detailed explanation!

I guess the main barrier to VIA purchasing Viewliners is the problem that you can only buy what someone is willing to sell/produce...

Even for an order of 17 or 27 sleepers (which is how many Renaissance sleepers they have in their fleet), if VIA came knocking on CAF's doors with money, they'd probably oblige. The only barrier here is VIA getting said money. I've heard that there may be talks to give VIA a significant increase in subsidy but i'll believe that when i see it

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