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1 hour ago, Urban Sky said:

I’m not sure what you are alluding to, but no, the locomotive engineers and OTS are not Social Distancing across 4 locomotives...

Lmao no, its just that I've never seen VIA do power moves like that on in-service trains. 

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I have heard rumours of VIA considering running RDCs on the routes to Sarnia or Kitchener in the Corridor, on the Skeena, or on an Eastern Canada daytime route from Halifax to NB, but none of this seems to have actually materialized. Is there any evidence that the Budd cars could come into service on any of these lines in the next few years?

Here’s a pic of the Budd cars heading over to Jasper for testing on the Skeena route in 2013: http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/new-power-for-the-skeena-the-rumours-were-true-via-rail-has-sent-2-rdcs-to-jasper-for-testing-and-presumable-use-on-trains-5-and-6-between-jasper-and-prince-rupert-via-6251-and-6219-are-tacked-on

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1 hour ago, Chris_the_traveller said:

I have heard rumours of VIA considering running RDCs on the routes to Sarnia or Kitchener in the Corridor, on the Skeena, or on an Eastern Canada daytime route from Halifax to NB, but none of this seems to have actually materialized. Is there any evidence that the Budd cars could come into service on any of these lines in the next few years?

Here’s a pic of the Budd cars heading over to Jasper for testing on the Skeena route in 2013: http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/new-power-for-the-skeena-the-rumours-were-true-via-rail-has-sent-2-rdcs-to-jasper-for-testing-and-presumable-use-on-trains-5-and-6-between-jasper-and-prince-rupert-via-6251-and-6219-are-tacked-on

I do remember that there was talk of putting them on the Toronto to London / Sarnia line. that was a few years ago and nothing seems to have changed. It would work out well as the lunchtime train from Toronto to London is only a two car and has been a two-car for a very long time. Normally when the international ran that line it consisted of mainly a three-car set.

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11 hours ago, Chris_the_traveller said:

I have heard rumours of VIA considering running RDCs on the routes to Sarnia or Kitchener in the Corridor, on the Skeena, or on an Eastern Canada daytime route from Halifax to NB, but none of this seems to have actually materialized. Is there any evidence that the Budd cars could come into service on any of these lines in the next few years?

Here’s a pic of the Budd cars heading over to Jasper for testing on the Skeena route in 2013: http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/new-power-for-the-skeena-the-rumours-were-true-via-rail-has-sent-2-rdcs-to-jasper-for-testing-and-presumable-use-on-trains-5-and-6-between-jasper-and-prince-rupert-via-6251-and-6219-are-tacked-on

Considering that a solid chunk of the Jasper-Prince Rupert train's (it hasn't been called the Skeena in decades) ridership in the summer is tourism-focused (hence the addition of the panorama car in recent years), it would surprise me if they chose to operate RDCs on that line. It's been served by conventional trains at a consistent level of service (three trains a week) for almost a hundred years now, it would be a big change to switch it around now. I can only realistically see them being used during the winter as traffic is seriously reduced (three car trains, including baggage, aren't unheard of)

 

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VIA did trial RDCs on the PR-PR-Jasper route a number of years ago and ran them for the better part of a year, I believe, but they reverted back to conventional trains. I think it would be unlikely for them to try RDCs again in the near future.

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On 4/27/2020 at 1:08 AM, TTC 9701 said:

I do remember that there was talk of putting them on the Toronto to London / Sarnia line. that was a few years ago and nothing seems to have changed. It would work out well as the lunchtime train from Toronto to London is only a two car and has been a two-car for a very long time. Normally when the international ran that line it consisted of mainly a three-car set.

With Locomotive Hauled trains, it would be easy to send and swap locomotives to VMC with them being tacked on the Canadian.  But with RDC's i think this would be more difficult to perform maintenance since there is no locomotive shop in Jasper.  How does CN perform maintenance of locomotives while in Jasper? 

Plus there are no spare RDC's to swap in an out, if one unit needed to be sent to Vancouver for maintenance, one RDC and a skyline car would not be sufficient in terms of power requirements. 

I think at the end of the day it's easier to leave it as a locomotive hauled train.  The RDC's would be better suited for commuter runs. 

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

With Locomotive Hauled trains, it would be easy to send and swap locomotives to VMC with them being tacked on the Canadian.  But with RDC's i think this would be more difficult to perform maintenance since there is no locomotive shop in Jasper.  How does CN perform maintenance of locomotives while in Jasper? 

Plus there are no spare RDC's to swap in an out, if one unit needed to be sent to Vancouver for maintenance, one RDC and a skyline car would not be sufficient in terms of power requirements. 

I think at the end of the day it's easier to leave it as a locomotive hauled train.  The RDC's would be better suited for commuter runs. 

Better suited for commuter runs and non-tourist related long-distance services. I'm always surprised that Northern Quebec doesn't employ RDCs, considering that I've seen photos of those trains with three cars - two passengers cars, one baggage car. 

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1 hour ago, InfiNorth said:

Better suited for commuter runs and non-tourist related long-distance services. I'm always surprised that Northern Quebec doesn't employ RDCs, considering that I've seen photos of those trains with three cars - two passengers cars, one baggage car. 

The RDC 4 is a half baggage car so would a full baggage car be nessaary? 

Perhaps Toronto to London trains with an additional HEP car in the middle would be a good combo. 

But do HEP I cars have pass through MU cable's? Otherwise it would need to be a HEP II car. 

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What's the other half of the 4 made up of? I always had assumed that it was baggage for throughout. 

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Sorry my mistake. RDC 3 is a combi. The RDC 4 was for mail/baggage only. 

Capacity
  • RDC-1: 90 passengers
  • RDC-2: 70 passengers, baggage section
  • RDC-3: 48 passengers, RPO, baggage section
  • RDC-4: RPO, baggage section
  • RDC-9: 94 passengers

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22 hours ago, Shaun said:

With Locomotive Hauled trains, it would be easy to send and swap locomotives to VMC with them being tacked on the Canadian.  But with RDC's i think this would be more difficult to perform maintenance since there is no locomotive shop in Jasper.  How does CN perform maintenance of locomotives while in Jasper? 

Plus there are no spare RDC's to swap in an out, if one unit needed to be sent to Vancouver for maintenance, one RDC and a skyline car would not be sufficient in terms of power requirements. 

I think at the end of the day it's easier to leave it as a locomotive hauled train.  The RDC's would be better suited for commuter runs. 

There is indeed only one place in this country with recent experience of maintaining RDCs and that place is located in Sudbury. Using a relatively isolated operation like Sudbury-White River is pretty much ideal for such an exotic fleet type - just like Vancouver Island was...

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"Via chose to abandon" would, in their defense, be an inaccurate description.  1989 - 1994 was a period of massive cuts to Via, the Rocky Mountaineer was conceptualized in 1987 (commencing the next year) to create revenue, and was actually directed to be cut / sold / chose your word in January 1990 before the service actually started in its modern form. In 1990 the service briefly operated by Via, and then over to the current company. Via was very much ordered to divest itself of the service. 

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Since I clearly got everything wrong and know nothing, I've removed the post. Happy? 

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21 hours ago, Dane said:

"Via chose to abandon" would, in their defense, be an inaccurate description.  1989 - 1994 was a period of massive cuts to Via, the Rocky Mountaineer was conceptualized in 1987 (commencing the next year) to create revenue, and was actually directed to be cut / sold / chose your word in January 1990 before the service actually started in its modern form. In 1990 the service briefly operated by Via, and then over to the current company. Via was very much ordered to divest itself of the service. 

 

20 hours ago, InfiNorth said:

Since I clearly got everything wrong and know nothing, I've removed the post. Happy? 

I unfortunately don't know what was written here, but just to highlight that the 1990 cuts were imposed by the federal government, here their budget speech of 1989 announcing that the government would impose cuts:

image.thumb.png.c6cca63b29bd528dd8fa0aa05f5b2935.png

Source: Government of Canada (1989)

 

To be more specific, this is the legislation which forced VIA to abandon the Canadian (and other routes, of which more are shown in separate "Schedules"):

image.thumb.png.e2acfd1fb3175051fa472303cdd031da.png

Source: Government of Canada (2020)

 

Furthermore, the intention to privatize Crown Corporations is also mentioned in the Budget 1989 speech, which foreshadows the privatization of VIA's "Rocky Mountaineer by Daylight" [Edit: I of course meant "Canadian Rockies by Daylight" or "Rocky Mountaineer"] operation:

image.thumb.png.e0df913d5a3d292d324029a2eb8786a7.png

Source: Government of Canada (1989, p.9)  

Edited by Urban Sky
Corrected that "Canadian Rockies by Daylight" reference
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Nice source material there. What a sad time that was for Via... Now I'm getting nervous about the future of the current iteration of the Canadian. What a hard year it has been for that service, massive cancellations on top of two or three years of incredibly poor reliability from a schedule perspective.  And that equipment isn't getting any younger. 

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It would be strange for the Canadian to use modern equipment. Some of the apoulstry could use a refresh, since it has been about ten years since they did a refresh. 

The HEP I cars may be old but they are still in good shape. 

The immediate concern would be the F40's. Not sure how much longer they can be around without a rebuild. I believe the plans for the P42 's would be to retire them when the new corridor fleet is in service. 

They where refusing to rebuild HEP II cars but they are so why not use them outside of the corridor when the new fleet is in service. 

Some of the rebuild LRC cars could also be used on the ocean.  The issue is the lack of sleepers. 

Could they run a mixed train with LRC coach cars and HEP sleepers? 

Would that be enough to retire the REN cars? Since they seem to be most problemic. 

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Originally known as The Canadian Rockies by Daylight 

 

49846683753_54b15e5e4a_c.jpg

 

And then VIA's Rocky Mountaineer...…...

 

49846683888_e70fc0d063_c.jpg

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1 hour ago, ghYHZ said:

And then VIA's Rocky Mountaineer...…...

 

[brochure]

I find this fascinating to know that even the purple branding that lives on in some form to this day was created back with VIA Rail. I don't care who ordered the end of the service, someone is kicking themselves for making such a stupid mistake and as I pointed out in the original post that I removed, VIA has been trying, for the last ten years, to compete to some extent with Prestige... competing with a service they themselves invented.

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Is the Rocky mountaineer ontime all the time? Is that because the CP tracks have less traffic?

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Is the Rocky mountaineer ontime all the time? Is that because the CP tracks have less traffic?

What if I told you that the median arrival time of Train 2 into Toronto has been only 8 minutes late over the last year? And that of Train 1 into Vancouver over 2 hours early?

I unfortunately don't have any punctuality data on the Rocky Mountaineer, but concerning the impact the choice of host railroads has on punctuality: due to the directional routing agreement between Mission/Abbotsford and Ashcroft, the choice of host railroads only matters for a rather small fraction of the Vancouver-Kamloops run and for all other of its routes, RMR doesn't have the luxury to choose between two different host railroads...

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Fun with stats! That's an eye opening post, obviously the Canadian remains extraordinarily challenged, however. Radical early, late, its all not ideal. I've forgotten - when did the schedule get elongated?

 RMR just anecdotally does actually have delays pretty regularly. Mostly getting out of, and into, Vancouver - and rarely more than an hour or two. 

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