Shaun Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Urban Sky said: My apologies, I should have re-checked this map, which I posted in a different forum, as Wyman Road is also what I heard as the protest’s location: The point remains that the protests can move as fast as CN’s freight trains can switch onto a competitor’s tracks... Where do those two lines intersect on either side? Would it be in labton yard in the west end? And then in Brockville? Does CP have an alternative route for those trains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 hours ago, Urban Sky said: Geography matters: Rouyn-Noranda is hundreds of kilometers away, CP’s Belleville Sub is less than a kilometer from the current protest site... Does it, though? The protesters at Marysville are thousands of miles away from the "core" protest in B.C. Phones and social media go a long way towards making those vast distances seem much closer. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 16 hours ago, Urban Sky said: The point remains that the protests can move as fast as CN’s freight trains can switch onto a competitor’s tracks... Or faster. CP probably wants to stay under the radar, so wouldn't likely be wanting to help. Media is reporting they've set up a second blockade this morning - about 6 km east of Wyman. Presumably Mowbrays Road? I don't see much hope for CN - even if anyone does want to create what would likely be an international incident. No one wants another Oka. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/mobile/via-rail-s-passenger-service-to-halifax-in-doubt-after-fall-1.4807917 Apparently the port of Halifax is prohibiting VIA from using the port to turn the train. Is there not another wye that can turn the train? I'm sure there must be another solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Shaun said: Is there not another wye that can turn the train? I'm sure there must be another solution. Looking at https://rac.jmaponline.net/canadianrailatlas/ I don't see a wye anywhere. There's an old turntable - but I don't know if it's active. The Halifax Port Authority is also a crown corporation - presumably reporting to the same minister. I suspect this will be easily remedied, and won't need a rocket scientist to solve ... or maybe it will . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Can they not build a connection track at the Fairview terminal to allow trains to wye there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shaun said: Can they not build a connection track at the Fairview terminal to allow trains to wye there? How close is it to the big blue watery thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixINX Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 This is bad... All VIA trains are cancelled until further notice, on most routes. https://www.cn.ca/en/news/2020/02/cn-initiating-progressive-and-orderly-shutdown-of-its-eastern-ca/ How can't they run any trains? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Sky Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, FelixINX said: How can't they run any trains? Trains 185 and 186 are still running... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 I don't see why things east of Montreal would be effected. Unless there are too many freight trains parked not moving preventing trains from moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaT Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 https://www.iheartradio.ca/am800/news/cn-rail-and-via-rail-shutting-down-service-across-canada-1.10567845 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Sky Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaun said: I don't see why things east of Montreal would be effected. Unless there are too many freight trains parked not moving preventing trains from moving. If you can’t unload your trains because they can’t reach their destination, they can’t move and I assume that there are not enough yard tracks to store trains, as a situation like this doesn’t usually arise... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiNorth Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 As an update, VIA Rail is continuing service on non-CN trackage on the Sudbury-White River service (CP) and The Pas-Churchill (HBR). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 The court has ruled that the protesters must be removed from railway property, but the OPP refuse to intervene. I'm sure this has a lot to do with what happened ten years ago when Mike Harris was in power. Apparently the rule is, if the provincial police agency is not in a position to do its job, it must inform the Federal police that they cannot, and allow them to have the opportunity to intervene. Now as to why this hasn't happened is anyone's guess. If the native police where told by the court to remove the protesters, are they obligated to follow the courts order? What are the consequences if they ignore it? Also for the politicians, it is also a sensitive subject and is difficult to handle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, Shaun said: The court has ruled that the protesters must be removed from railway property, but the OPP refuse to intervene. I'm sure this has a lot to do with what happened ten years ago when Mike Harris was in power. Keep in mind that there is an outstanding land claim at Tyendinaga. The only treaty they have is from the 1790s, and gives them a lot more (about 3 times) the land than they have now. The crown gave away a lot of that land to white settlers in the 1800s, without any legal instrument. And then they filed a land claim in 1995 - but the federal government hasn't been negotiating, and the courts have continually ruled against the federal government - https://www.intelligencer.ca/2013/06/26/court-ruling-vindicates-band/wcm/2168f60a-247d-c3ad-892c-2fc7c0f89097 If push comes to shove, neither the CN, CP railways nor the 401 might be legal. Things could get a lot worse if the police were to try and use force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 At some point it needs to be resolved to some extent. Propane is running low and chlorine needs to be delivered to water treatment plants. At some point it is going to become a public safety issue. They have every right to protest the pipeline being built on their land, and their message is being heard. But where they not consulted when the pipeline was being planned? How did it get approved otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghYHZ Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/12/2020 at 1:35 PM, Shaun said: https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/mobile/via-rail-s-passenger-service-to-halifax-in-doubt-after-fall-1.4807917 Apparently the port of Halifax is prohibiting VIA from using the port to turn the train. Is there not another wye that can turn the train? I'm sure there must be another solution. There is a Wye at Truro where the train could be turned but it would have to run backwards either before completing the run to Halifax or after departure the next day. The locomotives could run-around and lead the train.....but the cars would be backwards for 65 miles including the 'Park Car' directly behind the locomotives. At one time.....the Ocean could be turned on the Wye at Windsor Junction (jct with the Dominion Atlantic Railway)...about 15 miles from Halifax but the connection has been removed. Here's the Ocean running out to the Junction and turning there back in 2006: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys1xC7tsRZM&t=1365s Or the configuration of the consist might change depending on what cars are to be used. The Renaissance Coaches face forward only....but Ren Sleepers, Diners and service cars are bi-directional with half the seats already fixed one-way or the other. Seats in Budd Coaches can be rotated and I guess a Budd Diner could run backwards but you would have the 'Cabins for One' (old style Roomette) in the Budd Sleepers running backwards. There is a Turntable at CN's Fairview Engine Terminal where the Park Car could be turned but probably cost prohibitive to get one car out there and back to the VIA Station......and how receptive would CN be? Or just replace the Park with a Skyline Dome. When the Atlantic Limited ran across Maine (the CP version not VIA's) the Skyline had flip-over seats as the car was not turned in Saint John VIA could also just decide to terminate the Ocean in Moncton where a Wye is available.....and passengers take a connecting Intercity Train to or from Halifax. VIA has proposed starting an Intercity service in the Maritimes for several years now and it would run more frequent than the tri-weekly Ocean. Perhaps this might be the best option. The Ocean is busiest west of Moncton especially in the sleepers....and this would give the coach passengers out of Halifax additional service. I ride the Ocean often and don't see having to connect in Moncton to a sleeper a big issue and in fact I also ride coach occasionally to Amherst and Moncton.....and having additional frequencies on an Intercity type service is a plus. Anyway....several options so could be interesting come November! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 When VIA had ten sets into Toronto they use to wye trains at Bayview Junction. Which is about 40km's from TMC. I dont know what the track speed is but once the passengers have disembarked they could run the train backwards to the wye and then turn it around and back into the station. Or wye the train before it gets to Halifax and run it backwards for the last 60km's. Unless there is a reason why they can't wye trains with passengers on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghYHZ Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Shaun said: Or wye the train before it gets to Halifax and run it backwards for the last 60km's. Unless there is a reason why they can't wye trains with passengers on board. Shouldn't be a problem.....the locomotives could run around the train and lead for the 65 miles (110 km) between Truro and Halifax. Every time the w/b Ocean runs over to Sainte-Foy it has to back up for six km to return to the CN mainline on the south shore......then passes through the east quadrant of the Wye between Charny and Joffre Yard before continuing onto Montreal. Here's a crew member sitting at the rear of the Park Car for the back-up across the Quebec Bridge.....then taking the east leg of the wye at Charny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaun said: At some point it needs to be resolved to some extent. Propane is running low and chlorine needs to be delivered to water treatment plants. At some point it is going to become a public safety issue. Tyendinga has been under a drinking-water advisory for 25 years now, as far as I know. With no indication the water was drinkable before that. Why the concern now about public safety - and not 25 years ago? Why does this only become a pressing concern when it's non-Indigenous people who may have to boil water before drinking it? The pipeline issue in BC could be 100% resolved, and this might not end the CN situation in Ontario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, ghYHZ said: Shouldn't be a problem.....the locomotives could run around the train and lead for the 65 miles (110 km) between Truro and Halifax. Every time the w/b Ocean runs over to Sainte-Foy it has to back up for six km to return to the CN mainline on the south shore......then passes through the east quadrant of the Wye between Charny and Joffre Yard before continuing onto Montreal. Here's a crew member sitting at the rear of the Park Car for the back-up across the Quebec Bridge.....then taking the east leg of the wye at Charny...... Instead of running the loco's elephant style put them back to back. That way running the train around will allow them to travel at full speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiNorth Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Shaun said: Instead of running the loco's elephant style put them back to back. That way running the train around will allow them to travel at full speed. Kind of has an impact on the Park Car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 43 minutes ago, InfiNorth said: Kind of has an impact on the Park Car. Only for the last 60km. Or just run it backwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghYHZ Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Shaun said: Only for the last 60km. Or just run it backwards. It's 110 km from Truro to Halifax but still only a small portion of the 1350 overall run where you would be looking into the loco from the Park. Or replace the Park with a Skyline with flip-over seats like CP did on the original Atlantic Ltd when they didn't turn the train in Saint John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Sky Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 hours ago, ghYHZ said: It's 110 km from Truro to Halifax but still only a small portion of the 1350 overall run where you would be looking into the loco from the Park. Or replace the Park with a Skyline with flip-over seats like CP did on the original Atlantic Ltd when they didn't turn the train in Saint John. I’m not sure where you would procure these seats for a 65 year old car from, but can we agree that the general sentiment here in this discussion is that the problems caused by the looming unavailability of the Haltern loop track don’t appear to be as insurmountable as certain news reports make them appear...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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