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Waiting for 30 Minutes

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Oc4526

Oc4526

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10 hours ago, Shaun said:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/via-rail-train-partially-derails-in-halifax-no-one-injured-1.4191732
There was a derailment in Halifax today. Two cars where damaged. 

I wonder if they will need to take the whole ren Trainset out of commission until those two cars are repaired? Could they add two Budd cars at the end of the train to offset the two economy coaches that where damaged? 

 

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ghYHZ

ghYHZ

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10 hours ago, Shaun said:

There was a derailment in Halifax today. Two cars where damaged. 

I wonder if they will need to take the whole ren Trainset out of commission until those two cars are repaired? Could they add two Budd cars at the end of the train to offset the two economy coaches that where damaged? 

 

No Passengers aboard.

This was the train that had arrived in Halifax the previous evening and was being turned prior to its 1pm departure back to Montreal. It had just backed out of the station and had started to pull forward to the Container Terminal where it would run around the loop-track to turn…...then back down into the station.

Happened in the cut between Tower Rd and Young Ave:

https://goo.gl/maps/VRZWxRKsMjy

And I'm just guessing here: This is an off-season consist so there would be additional Ren Coaches at the MMC in Montreal and the whole consist would probably have to return there to have the cars added.

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FelixINX

FelixINX

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According to LaPresse, VIA have chosen Siemens for the corridor fleet renewal.

The Quebec government is putting pressure on Ottawa to add a minimum of local content on the trains. Siemens plan to build the new fleet in Sacramento, California, but Bombardier would do it in La Pocatière, Québec.

Contrat de 1 milliard avec VIA Rail: Siemens a doublé Bombardier (in French)

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Shaun

Shaun

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4 hours ago, FelixINX said:

According to LaPresse, VIA have chosen Siemens for the corridor fleet renewal.

The Quebec government is putting pressure on Ottawa to add a minimum of local content on the trains. Siemens plan to build the new fleet in Sacramento, California, but Bombardier would do it in La Pocatière, Québec.

Contrat de 1 milliard avec VIA Rail: Siemens a doublé Bombardier (in French)

Is there an english version?

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tomsbuspage

tomsbuspage

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6 hours ago, FelixINX said:

According to LaPresse, VIA have chosen Siemens for the corridor fleet renewal.

The Quebec government is putting pressure on Ottawa to add a minimum of local content on the trains. Siemens plan to build the new fleet in Sacramento, California, but Bombardier would do it in La Pocatière, Québec.

Contrat de 1 milliard avec VIA Rail: Siemens a doublé Bombardier (in French)

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Is there an english version?

Not exactly, but here are two articles from the Montreal Gazette:

Quebec blasts Ottawa over $1B Via Rail contract to Siemens

Free trade means Via Rail can't favour Bombardier for new trains: Garneau

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Shaun

Shaun

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Did Siemens win because they had the most competitive bid and the best product that met the requirements? 

If so then they should get the tender.  Maybe this will entice Bombardier to sharpen their pencils and get their act together. 

Can Siemens not agree to build or assemble or purchase some content from Canada? I think Talgo did that with their Washington bid.  

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FelixINX

FelixINX

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

Did Siemens win because they had the most competitive bid and the best product that met the requirements? 

If so then they should get the tender.  Maybe this will entice Bombardier to sharpen their pencils and get their act together. 

Can Siemens not agree to build or assemble or purchase some content from Canada? I think Talgo did that with their Washington bid.  

It's really difficult to say as of now as the bid process is not over (even if the final choice has been leaked).

The bid that Bombardier did for VIA is probably good. The ALP-45DP are a good fit for VIA dual mode requirement and are reliable (well I think).

The only two problems I could see is price and delay. Would BBD be able to build 32 trains in La Pocatière by 2022*? It's a good question and I think no: the 17 additional Azur are due in 2021, that leave not a lot of time to change the assembly line and start building trains.

*I am not sure what the actual timeline is. The VIA website is unclear: the first train in 2022 or all trains by 2022?

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Urban Sky

Urban Sky

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3 hours ago, FelixINX said:

*I am not sure what the actual timeline is. The VIA website is unclear: the first train in 2022 or all trains by 2022?

“Timeframe for delivery:
 Test train: Q4 2021
 First train in revenue service: Q2 2022
 Last train in revenue service: Q2 2024”

https://m.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/new-fleet/VIA Rail - Notice of RFQ_english.pdf

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ghYHZ

ghYHZ

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7 hours ago, littlewill1166 said:

Budds are being rebuilt, so probably not. I'm noticing that the 6/7 car trains doing Toronto-London have been shortened to 5 car trains.

VIA Is running a Budd fill-in consist on the Ocean. It will depart Montreal tonight (Nov 28) on e/b #14

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Shaun

Shaun

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12 hours ago, FelixINX said:

It's really difficult to say as of now as the bid process is not over (even if the final choice has been leaked).

The bid that Bombardier did for VIA is probably good. The ALP-45DP are a good fit for VIA dual mode requirement and are reliable (well I think).

The only two problems I could see is price and delay. Would BBD be able to build 32 trains in La Pocatière by 2022*? It's a good question and I think no: the 17 additional Azur are due in 2021, that leave not a lot of time to change the assembly line and start building trains.

 *I am not sure what the actual timeline is. The VIA website is unclear: the first train in 2022 or all trains by 2022?

Is there more than one assembly line there? Could one be used for the VIA cars?

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WMATAC40LF

WMATAC40LF

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22 hours ago, Shaun said:

Did Siemens win because they had the most competitive bid and the best product that met the requirements? 

If so then they should get the tender.  Maybe this will entice Bombardier to sharpen their pencils and get their act together. 

Can Siemens not agree to build or assemble or purchase some content from Canada? I think Talgo did that with their Washington bid.  

While we don't know the exact details of the bidding process, I think Siemens is probably VIA's best option. They are the only manufacturer on the list who currently builds both FRA compliant locomotives and single level passenger cars (and yes, I'm assuming that's what they proposed to VIA). On top of that, they have a great reputation for delivering on time, which is not something that can be said for Bombardier. And speaking of Bombardier, I think they've had more then enough motivation to get their crap together. 

Siemens could obviously open a facility in Canada to perform tasks like final assembly, but if there was no Canadian content requirement in VIA's RFP, then there's no compelling reason to open one.

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smallspy

smallspy

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2 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

While we don't know the exact details of the bidding process, I think Siemens is probably VIA's best option. They are the only manufacturer on the list who currently builds both FRA compliant locomotives and single level passenger cars (and yes, I'm assuming that's what they proposed to VIA). On top of that, they have a great reputation for delivering on time, which is not something that can be said for Bombardier. And speaking of Bombardier, I think they've had more then enough motivation to get their crap together.

I am quite amazed at just how blind many people here (or on various other forums) are to the multitude of problems that the other manufacturers such as Siemens and Alstom have had, both in their distant and recent history. Or to how little the Toronto streetcar contract has meant to them and their bottom line.

 

To think that Bombardier is the only one with a shitty reputation based solely on the Toronto streetcar contract is frankly pretty oblivious to the railroading and transit situation manufacturing anywhere that's not "here".

 

Dan

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WMATAC40LF

WMATAC40LF

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1 hour ago, smallspy said:

I am quite amazed at just how blind many people here (or on various other forums) are to the multitude of problems that the other manufacturers such as Siemens and Alstom have had, both in their distant and recent history. Or to how little the Toronto streetcar contract has meant to them and their bottom line.

 

To think that Bombardier is the only one with a shitty reputation based solely on the Toronto streetcar contract is frankly pretty oblivious to the railroading and transit situation manufacturing anywhere that's not "here".

 

Dan

Why do you think my statement was based soley on the delivery problems with the TTC Flexities? What about the NYC R179s, the BART "fleet of the future", or the MARC Multilevel cars (which were delivered more than a year late)?

And when did I say Bombardier was the only railway equipment manufacturer to ever encounter production problems? Of course there are other manufacturers that have experienced or are currently experiencing issues (like CAF and Kawasaki). 

And about Siemens, sure, they may have had issues with certain products in the past. But, what's most relevant in this discussion are their most recent orders for passenger equipment in the US (as that is most comparable to what VIA will be getting). The Charger Locomotives for the Amtrak State corridors have been delivered without major incident, just like the Brightline equipment. The construction of the single level passenger cars for the Midwest and California also appears to be progressing on schedule.

And no, I'm not completely oblivious to railway and transit related news. I didn't say what I said about Bombardier because I read some Toronto Star article designed to provoke outrage about late streetcars. You may work around trains (well, museum pieces and a bunch of HO models), but that doesn't mean you can just accuse everyone else of being ignorant without a solid basis.

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FelixINX

FelixINX

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12 hours ago, smallspy said:

What makes you think that the Bombardier was bidding with the ALP-45?

The ALP-45DP is the only Bombardier locomotive, that I know, that can use both overhead wire and diesel power (in north america). I don't see Bombardier making plans for another locomotive, but I could be wrong, I am not an expert at all ?

11 hours ago, Shaun said:

Is there more than one assembly line there? Could one be used for the VIA cars?

I know that in the past they use to build Multilevel coaches for the AMT (now exo) but I don't see anything else apart from Azur. La Pocatière have to refurbish 17 cars for VIA Rail but I would be surprise if they make an assembly line for this.

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

I am quite amazed at just how blind many people here (or on various other forums) are to the multitude of problems that the other manufacturers such as Siemens and Alstom have had, both in their distant and recent history. Or to how little the Toronto streetcar contract has meant to them and their bottom line.

Your point is very good. Siemens or Talgo are not present in Canada. In Quebec, Bombardier have a bad reputation for delays for Azur cars but also for missing a contract with the AMT for Multilevel coaches because they wanted more time (CRCC did win the contact and finally got more time...).

TVA Nouvelles wrote this morning that Bombardier and Talgo would have one last chance to issue a better price than Siemens. This is to be taken lightly, TVA is often a bad source especially in transport, but still.

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smallspy

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11 hours ago, WMATAC40LF said:

Why do you think my statement was based soley on the delivery problems with the TTC Flexities? What about the NYC R179s, the BART "fleet of the future", or the MARC Multilevel cars (which were delivered more than a year late)?

And when did I say Bombardier was the only railway equipment manufacturer to ever encounter production problems? Of course there are other manufacturers that have experienced or are currently experiencing issues (like CAF and Kawasaki). 

And about Siemens, sure, they may have had issues with certain products in the past. But, what's most relevant in this discussion are their most recent orders for passenger equipment in the US (as that is most comparable to what VIA will be getting). The Charger Locomotives for the Amtrak State corridors have been delivered without major incident, just like the Brightline equipment. The construction of the single level passenger cars for the Midwest and California also appears to be progressing on schedule.

And no, I'm not completely oblivious to railway and transit related news. I didn't say what I said about Bombardier because I read some Toronto Star article designed to provoke outrage about late streetcars. You may work around trains (well, museum pieces and a bunch of HO models), but that doesn't mean you can just accuse everyone else of being ignorant without a solid basis.

 

My point is that a lot of people - perhaps not you specifically, although you do like to harp on Bombardier a lot - can't see the forest for the trees and continually slam Bombardier for things such as the Toronto streetcar contract and the R179 debacle, when a majority of their contracts go off more-or-less without a hitch. The Toronto subway cars? The BiLevel commuter cars used in a dozen other cities? MultiLevels for Montréal and New Jersey, and locomotives for both?

 

As for Siemens, where to start.....

- The Combino streetcar design, which was so flawed that there had to be a recall on every single one built once they reached something like 100,000 miles of running. This led to a very major redesign that was first renamed the Combino Supra, then the Avenio when they decided they needed more distance from the Combino name. Sales of it are still not great....

- The DB class 407/ICE 3 debacle. Deliveries were so late that Siemens agreed to deliver an extra trainset at no additional charge - on an order of 15 (later 16) trainsets. Perhaps as a result of those issues, Siemens is working with Bombardier as a major subcontractor on the ICE 4 project.

- There have been a multitude of issues with the SD-200 LRVs currently being delivered to Calgary and San Francisco, not the least of which are leaking roofs (after 2 years), continued door problems, etc. That it took Siemens and MUNI almost 6 months more of work to get approval for MU operation after the cars first entered service there was particularly grave.

- Don't look now, but Amtrak is already starting to have issues with their ACS-64s. And there's a lot of commonality between them and the SC-44s.

 

Alstom has had its fair share of failures over the years too, but a lot of theirs can be traced back to design decisions that they've made. HHP-8s, anyone? After all, they were the ones responsible for the propulsion design of both it and the Acela trainsets.

 

As for what I do at work and on weekends - that's not even the half of it. If you only knew the people I talk to on a regular basis - people who work on and around on the things on a daily basis, people who design them, people who buy them - you might think twice about being accusatory.

 

11 hours ago, FelixINX said:

The ALP-45DP is the only Bombardier locomotive, that I know, that can use both overhead wire and diesel power (in north america). I don't see Bombardier making plans for another locomotive, but I could be wrong, I am not an expert at all ?

Bombardier makes lots and lots and lots of other products that aren't locos. In fact, they have a product that would only need relatively minor modifications to allow it to operate in North America - the V'Locity 160 DMU being built for the Melbourne area. And while those use diesel-hydrostatic drivetrains, they have also built diesel-electric drivetrains under other DMUs operating in Europe, so making something convertible to fully electric is not out of the realm of possibility.


Dan

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