VIA Rail Canada

[TheAverageJoe]

16 hours ago, Allandale25 said:

This was posted by Transport Action today:

 

 

 

Time for the Feds/Province to buy the line

[dowlingm]

On 10/07/2017 at 5:46 PM, KMB_BUS said:

via 6432 screams by with a set of lrc cars just east of oshawa

 

Would it have been so expensive to wrap all of the old blue and yellow cars with the Canada 150 stuff so that there were only two livery types in a consist, not three?

[tomsbuspage]

Belleville Intelligencer: Tweed among stops on proposed Via line

[skyfirenet]

Sadly, the Tweed CP station was demolished not that long ago.

[TTC T6H-5307N 2252]

And rebuilding the CP Havelock Sub back into live service I guess?

[Charlie]

Hey everyone,

Now before I start, I know that Via has not released many details about the whole High Frequency Rail thing, however, I was wondering if anyone knew about any plans about double tracking the Beachburg Sub through Ottawa. You would think they would have to if they are planning on having 2 trains per hour along the line, but I'm just not sure if they would go cheap and not double track it or not.

-Charlie

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/new-via-rail-plan-would-increase-train-frequency-through-barrhaven

[Shaun]

17 hours ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

And rebuilding the CP Havelock Sub back into live service I guess?

The problem i see with this idea is that it misses all of the populated cities on the southern route.  Unless they plan to have a southern and northern route. 

The Southern route could still serve existing stations and the northern route would be the faster route used for more direct service to Montreal through Ottawa?

The EA for service to Peterborough is already been completed by Metrolinx so that portion is already done. 

I would have thought the CP Belleville Sub would have been a better candidate.

[Charlie]

4 hours ago, Shaun said:

The problem i see with this idea is that it misses all of the populated cities on the southern route.  Unless they plan to have a southern and northern route. 

The Southern route could still serve existing stations and the northern route would be the faster route used for more direct service to Montreal through Ottawa?

The EA for service to Peterborough is already been completed by Metrolinx so that portion is already done. 

I would have thought the CP Belleville Sub would have been a better candidate.

Chances are, they will have trains that will go north(ish) to Peterborough and Tweed and Sharbot Lake and along Lake Ontario to all the towns along there as if you look in the article tombuspage posted, the map shows the VIA owned track down to brockville. The benefit to the north(ish) line is that it will be Via that owns it, so freight trains would not have to be given priority. It would only really make sense for people to use that line if they are going to one of the new stations or direct from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal or vice versa  (it looks like).

-Charlie 

http://www.intelligencer.ca/2017/07/20/tweed-among-stops-on-proposed-via-line

[Jeffrey]

Here is a question,  I always wondered before VIA Rail, how was passenger service divided between CN and CP? I do know that CP operated the commuter service in Montreal. But did CN have the majority if the East Coast and CP had the west coast? CN I assume had the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, hence the VIA/CN program. There was never a CP/Via program. Odd question, a railway enthusiest like me should know but I never really thought about it until now, and I know I can get the best answers here.  

[Shaun]

How much of the Row is in tact between Havelock and smith Falls? 

The Havelock sub is in rough shape, are the bridges double track ready?

What is the likely hood of this actually becoming a reality? 

[swimmer_spe]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

How much of the Row is in tact between Havelock and smith Falls? 

The Havelock sub is in rough shape, are the bridges double track ready?

What is the likely hood of this actually becoming a reality? 

If they want to make it higher speed, like Acela down south, this is not a bad thing. They have the exclusive ROW.

[Charlie]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

How much of the Row is in tact between Havelock and smith Falls? 

The Havelock sub is in rough shape, are the bridges double track ready?

What is the likely hood of this actually becoming a reality? 

I am sure a quick trip to google maps will answer your first and second questions

-Charlie

 

[webfil]

On 2017-07-21 at 5:07 PM, Jeffrey said:

Here is a question,  I always wondered before VIA Rail, how was passenger service divided between CN and CP? I do know that CP operated the commuter service in Montreal. But did CN have the majority if the East Coast and CP had the west coast? CN I assume had the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, hence the VIA/CN program. There was never a CP/Via program. Odd question, a railway enthusiest like me should know but I never really thought about it until now, and I know I can get the best answers here.  

Here are former passenger lines in Québec (late 60's to early 70's). I might have forgot some lines and VIA could have scheduled some lines for a year or two before dropping them)

CN corridors

• Campbellton, N.B./Gaspé via Matapédia (→ VIA → rerouted from Montréal, suspended)
• Chambord/Dolbeau (abandoned)
• Lévis/Edmunston (abandoned, most part converted to rail-trail)
• Mont-Joli/Matane (abandoned)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Chicoutimi (→ VIA, truncated to Jonquière, some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Coaticook via Richmond, Sherbrooke (abandoned)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Coteau/Ottawa (→ VIA)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Deux-Montagnes/Ottawa (truncated to Grenville, truncated to Deux-Montagnes → CTCUM → STCUM → AMT → RTM some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Hervey Jct (abandoned)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Halifax via Lévis (→ VIA, rerouted via Sainte-Foy, some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Montréal-Nord (abandoned → back in service in 2014, extended to Mascouche by AMT → RTM)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Ottawa/Vancouver (→ VIA, truncated and rerouted, abandoned → back in service when VIA's Canadian was partly rerouted onto CN)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Québec (Union or "Palais") or Lévis via Drummondville (→ VIA, truncated to Québec (Saint-Sacrement), extended back to Québec (Palais), some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu/Cantic (abandoned)
• Montréal (Centrale)/Sainte-Rosalie Jonction (truncated to Belœil → abandoned → back in service in 2001, extended back to Mont-Saint-Hilaire by AMT → RTM)
• Montréal (Centrale)/(Ottawa)/Toronto (→ VIA)
• Québec (Union or "Palais")/Chicoutimi ( → VIA?, abandoned, some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Québec (Union or "Palais")/La Malbaie (abandoned → back in service in 2013 between Québec (Chute-Montmorency) and La Malbaie (Pointe-au-Pic) by Réseau Charlevoix)
• Québec (Union or "Palais")/Cochrane (→ VIA, rerouted via Montréal, then from Montréal, truncated to Senneterre, some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Québec (Union or "Palais")/Richmond (abandoned, converted to rail-trail)
• Senneterre/Rouyn-Noranda (abandoned)
• Senneterre/Chibougamau (abandoned)
• Taschereau/Rouyn-Noranda (abandoned, converted to rail-trail)

CP corridors

• Montréal (Viger)/Sainte-Thérèse/Mont-Laurier (abandoned → back in service in 1997, truncated between Montréal (Parc) and Blainville by AMT → extended back to Montréal (Lucien-L'Allier) → extended back to Saint-Jérôme → RTM, most part converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Viger)/Sainte-Thérèse/Ottawa (abandoned)
• Montréal (Viger)/Québec (Union or "Palais") via Trois Rivieres Subdivision (→ VIA, truncated to Québec (Saint-Sacrement) → abandoned)
• Montréal (Windsor)/Farnham (abandoned → back in service in 2002, truncated between Montréal (Lucien-L'Allier) and Delson by AMT → extended back to Candiac → RTM)
• Montréal (Windsor)/Ottawa/Vancouver via M&O Subdivision (→ VIA, truncated and rerouted, some parts converted to rail-trail)
• Montréal (Windsor)/Rigaud (→ CTCUM → STCUM → AMT, truncated from Montréal (Lucien-L'Allier), truncated to Hudson → RTM)
• Montréal (Windsor)/Sherbrooke/Saint John (→ VIA → abandoned)

[skyfirenet]

5 hours ago, Shaun said:

How much of the Row is in tact between Havelock and smith Falls?

I can already tell you that a new ROW is needed for the area around Tweed. Other than that, for the most part, the ROW hasn't been completely obliterated by redevelopment thanks in part to running through the Canadian Shield. That said, getting through Kaladar, Mountain Grove and Brooke may be a problem.

[ghYHZ]

On ‎2017‎/‎07‎/‎21 at 6:07 PM, Jeffrey said:

Here is a question,  I always wondered before VIA Rail, how was passenger service divided between CN and CP? I do know that CP operated the commuter service in Montreal. But did CN have the majority if the East Coast and CP had the west coast? CN I assume had the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, hence the VIA/CN program. There was never a CP/Via program. Odd question, a railway enthusiest like me should know but I never really thought about it until now, and I know I can get the best answers here.  

 

The end of the ‘Pool Trains’ and CP’s ‘Last Hurrah’ between Toronto & Montreal and Toronto & Ottawa

 

From the mid 1930s until it ended on October 31, 1965.....Passenger train schedules and equipment had been ‘Pooled’ between Toronto & Montreal, Toronto & Ottawa and Montreal & Quebec City and jointly operated by CN and CP. Tickets were interchangeable and honoured by either railway on the ‘Pool Trains” (Note Montreal – Ottawa trains had not been part of the pool agreement)

Now the railways were free to pursue their own objectives.

 

By the mid '60s......CN wanted to pursue passenger trains to their full potential. CP didn't and would gradually exit the intercity market.

The very pro-passenger CN launched their new 'Rapido' on October 31, 1965 : 4 hr/59 min for the 335 miles between Toronto and Montreal.

 

CP took on this competition with their new Stainless Steel and Dome equipped......'The Royal York' w/b to Toronto and 'Le Chateau Champlain' e/b to Montreal….named for the CP Hotels in the respective cities.

 

Consists of the new CP trains included Budd Stainless Steel Coaches, Dining Car, Skyline Dome Coffee Shop and Park Car Dome Observation. There were also Parlour Cars converted from the Stainless Steel Coaches. The coach seats were removed and replaced with 40 Parlour Chairs; Large loose chairs facing into the centre of the car rather than the fixed swivel type.

 

The trains ran on CP’s Belleville and Winchester Subdivisions via Trenton and Smiths Falls…..taking 5 hrs/45 min for the 340 miles. But the faster CN Rapidos and lower fares were just too much……so after less than 3 months the new Royal York and Chateau Champlain were discontinued ……ending all CP passenger service between Toronto and Montreal.

At that time CN did not operate any passenger trains between Toronto and Ottawa. This was exclusive CP territory and with the end of the pool agreement....the CP service was drastically reduced to a single RDC ‘Dayliner’ run each way between Toronto and Ottawa (via Peterborough) and an RDC from Ottawa connecting with the Royal York/Chateau Champlain at Smiths Falls. Particularly missed were the CP overnight trains between Toronto and Ottawa.

So now with the Royal York and Chateau Champlain gone…..CP also ended all passenger services between Ottawa and Toronto.

 

With the Board of Transport Commissioners approval....CN now had to somehow hammer together an Ottawa to Toronto route. They had an old freight only former Canadian Northern Railway route between Ottawa – Smiths Falls – Napanee and the new CN daytime trains started using the Ottawa – Smiths Falls segment of this route in mid January 1966. At Smiths Falls....CP granted running-rights to CN so they could continue on down to Brockville to connect with their Montreal - Toronto corridor trains. This is essentially the same route VIA’s Ottawa – Toronto trains still use today.

 

CN’s new Ottawa – Toronto overnight train started in mid February 1966 but it didn’t run via Brockville. Upon reaching Smiths Falls ….it stayed on the old Canadian Northern route to a junction with the Kingston Sub at Napanee... then continued onto Toronto.

 

CN and CP also went their separate ways between Montreal and Quebec City. CP basically maintained their previous schedules on the route via Trois-Rivieres....but CN now had their recently launched (1964) 'Champlain' (using the ex Reading Railroad Crusader equipment) on a fast 3hr/10min schedule via Drummondville. Until 1964, CN had not operated any through trains between Montreal and Quebec City on the route via Drumondville and Sainte-Foy which is the VIA route today. Until then, passengers changed at Levis and took the ferry across to Quebec City.  

 

So beginning in October 1965 and up until the launch of VIA....you had:

CN: Toronto - Montreal 

CN: Toronto - Ottawa

CN:  Montreal - Ottawa

CP:  Montreal - Ottawa via Rigaud

CP:  Montreal - Ottawa via Montebello

CN:  Montreal - Quebec City via Drummondville

CP:  Montreal - Quebec City via Trois Rivieres

 

On corridor routes west of Toronto that had never been Pooled....you had:

CN: Toronto-London-Windsor

CN: Toronto-London-Sarnia (Chicago)

(above trains via either Brantford or Guelph)

CP: Toronto-London-Windsor

CN: Toronto-Hamilton-Niagara Falls

CP: Toronto-Hamilton (Buffalo)

(above on CN through Oakville)

 

 

[ghYHZ]

>

[ghYHZ]

 

 

By the early ‘70s the only ‘conventional equipped’ trains left on CP were the ‘Canadian’, the ‘Atlantic Limited’ between Montreal and Saint John NB (across the State of Maine, USA) and some Montreal area commuter trains. Everything else was a self-propelled RDC ‘Dayliner’

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you could still travel coast to coast on a CP ticket:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

E&N Dayliner on Vancouver Island

 

 

 

CP Ferry to Vancouver

 

 

 

CP Canadian to Montreal

 

 

 

CP Atlantic Limited to Saint John

 

 

 

CP Ferry to Digby

 

 

 

Dominion Atlantic Dayliner to Halifax

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CN had a much more extensive network across the country and could get you even farther east:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CN Montreal to North Sydney

 

 

 

CN Ferry to Port-aux-Basques, Newfoundland

 

 

 

CN ‘Caribou’ to St. John’s....the last full-service Narrow-Gauge passenger train in North America with coaches, diner, lounge and sleepers. The Caribou was discontinued in 1969 but CN still operated the ‘Roadcruiser’ bus service in Nfld until 1996.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was even a CN passenger train from Moncton NB that was loaded aboard a ferry to reach Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island until 1969

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Allandale25]

Latest on the Fed's view of the Churchill situation here.

Omnitrax must repair Churchill rail line: Justin Trudeau

PM also announced $35M in federal funding for Diversity Gardens at Winnipeg's Assiniboine Park

 

[Shaun]

I noticed that there are at least 4 ren cars at TMC. Two coaches with a transition car and at least one more in the dead line with the RDC's. 

Is there work that can be done at TMC that cannot be done at MMC? 

Is the one in the dead line retired?

[smallspy]

There are currently 6 Renaissance cars at the TMC.

 

3 of them are more-or-less completed sleepers that never went through the various upgrade programs, and thus have never been in service. These three have been vandalized quite badly.

 

The other 3 consist of a baggage car and 2 coaches. These were brought to the TMC about a month and a half ago to train new on-board staff. While the Renaissance cars don't run to Toronto right now, they do run to Ottawa, and thus there is the possibility of Toronto crews working them.

 

Dan

[Charlie]

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, but I didn't want to start a whole new topic for it. I am simply putting under VIA since it mainly has to do with them.

So today I took a train from Quebec City to Ottawa and when I was in Quebec, I noticed that some of the speed limit signs had a much faster LRC speed limit on top. Why do they still have these? I mean maybe they didn't bother to get rid of them but still, it's been like 20 years! Anyways I was just surprised to see this gem of days past.

-Charlie

 

[skyfirenet]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, but I didn't want to start a whole new topic for it. I am simply putting under VIA since it mainly has to do with them.

So today I took a train from Quebec City to Ottawa and when I was in Quebec, I noticed that some of the speed limit signs had a much faster LRC speed limit on top. Why do they still have these? I mean maybe they didn't bother to get rid of them but still, it's been like 20 years! Anyways I was just surprised to see this gem of days past.

-Charlie

 

Simply put, it costs nothing to keep them up but it costs money to take them down.

[smallspy]

4 hours ago, Charlie said:

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, but I didn't want to start a whole new topic for it. I am simply putting under VIA since it mainly has to do with them.

So today I took a train from Quebec City to Ottawa and when I was in Quebec, I noticed that some of the speed limit signs had a much faster LRC speed limit on top. Why do they still have these? I mean maybe they didn't bother to get rid of them but still, it's been like 20 years! Anyways I was just surprised to see this gem of days past.

-Charlie

They're still used. That's why.

 

LRC (and Ren) equipment is allowed to do a higher speed than HEP or HEP2 equipment in certain locations - some of it is a hold-over from when the tilting system was active. Some probably has some engineering behind it, although I can honestly say that I've never been told why.

 

Dan

[Charlie]

6 hours ago, smallspy said:

They're still used. That's why.

 

LRC (and Ren) equipment is allowed to do a higher speed than HEP or HEP2 equipment in certain locations - some of it is a hold-over from when the tilting system was active. Some probably has some engineering behind it, although I can honestly say that I've never been told why.

 

Dan

Oh that's actually pretty cool. Thanks!

[Shaun]

7 hours ago, smallspy said:

They're still used. That's why.

 

LRC (and Ren) equipment is allowed to do a higher speed than HEP or HEP2 equipment in certain locations - some of it is a hold-over from when the tilting system was active. Some probably has some engineering behind it, although I can honestly say that I've never been told why.

 

Dan

Does that mean that the time time reflects the equipment being used on that train? In a situation where there is an equipment swap or mixed equipment the train cannot maintain that schedule?