emdx

Terrorist scare in Douchebag City

21 posts in this topic

1 The context

(You may want to skip to part 2 for the meat of the argument here)

Douchebag City does not like poor people. That's the fenced-in city that locks the gates on Hallow'een:

QC-DouchebagCity_20090815-133255_0024.jpg

A view of the fence of the east side of Douchebag City: on the other side is Montréal Park-Extension district (if you squint, you can see the buses at the Parc Métro station at the other end of the street). In order to drive ahead, you are facing a 1 mile detour — and even then, I'm not sure that you can do the U-Turn Google Maps tells you to do…

When they had their own police force, they forcefully expelled anyone who drove the streets in an old/cheap car. They never stomached the Urban Community for taking away their beloved police that protected them from the poor people surrounding their city (especially those in Park Extension), because rich people know that the most dangerous thing in the world is poor people, because they only think of stealing the richs' stuff.

For the second time (first time was 2 years ago) in my life that I was walking on the streets of Douchebag City I have been hassled by their security guards. When I take a walk, I always bring my camera and I take pictures (2 years ago, though, I did not have my camera so it should not be construed that they only harass photographers).

To put things in perspective, I grew up in Notre-Dame-de-Grâce, which is right next to Westmount and now I live in St-Henri which is also right next to it. Westmount is the richest city if not in Canada, at least in Québec (St-Henri is the poorest :) ). That's where the Bronfmans live, for example. Wesmount owns the country, whereas those who live in Douchebag City are the underlings of the owners, those who do their dirty work for them.

Never a single time in my life I have ever been hassled in Westmount, whether as a kid I went to play in the parks, went trick-or-treating (the extra hike up the mountain was worth it for the extra candy) or right now when I go for a hike (it's on the mountain after all) and take pictures of the houses:

QC-Westmount_20040418-142750.jpg

That classy Beaux-Arts style mansion on Westmount avenue used to belong to Robert Obadia, a businessman who specialized in running airlines to the ground. Compare the class and style to Douchebag city houses.

I have walked through Westmount hundreds of times, taken hundreds of pictures and never have been hassled. By comparison, every single time I took a walk in Douchebag city, I have been hassled.

Now a word about the police. What happens here is radically different than what happened to me in Ottawa. Back in the 1970's, police in Québec was a ragtag assembly of poorly trained thugs who excelled in abuse (back then, Montréal was the hold-up capital of North-America). When the Parti Québécois took power, they took a series of steps to thoroughly modernize society and curtail the injustices going on. One of those things was the "école nationale de police" where all policemen got to get the same consistent training — Oh, there are still douchebags, but they are facing a higher standard. Contrast this to elsewhere in Canada where training is not standardized and the conduct of officers vary very wildly. (Now, Montréal is no longer the hold-up capital).

Oh, and lastly, I am one of those "pure laines", which means that I have ½ french blood, ½ indian blood, ½ scottish blood, ½ all sorts of bloods mixed, so I look pretty nondescriptly average, so there aren't any race issues involved here. Not that I am saying that if I had a nicer skin colour that the outcome would have been the same…

2 What happenned

I was walking around the streets of douchebag city, and I snapped pictures of houses here and there:

QC-DouchebagCity_20090815-133934_0039.jpg

An example of the kind of kitsch houses you will find in Douchebag City.

After about 40-45 minutes, a "public security" truck showed up and asked me what I was doing.

— I'm taking pictures of houses.

— Why for?

— My business.

— Well, some people have seen you and they are afraid so they called security.

— So? That's not my problem. Good day, sir.

And I left, snapping some more pictures. He followed me with his truck and started to insist:

QC-DouchebagCity_20090815-Douche.jpg

The douche in action. Note: to those who would object that this is a violation of the douche's privacy, he is standing on a public thoroughfare as a public official, performing presumably official duty. And since I do not publish the picture (from my own webserver and not CPTDB's) in order to make money, the argument that has recently been used in court against a magazine does not stand. Oh, and to those who would be tempted to dismiss the douche as an arab, although he looks a bit like one he is thoroughly "pure laine" – and in anycase, arabs do not act douchebaggy like that.

— Why are you taking pictures for?

— This is my business.

— I will have to call the police so they investigate.

— They will investigate nothing as there is nothing illegal done.

And I keep going, while he follows me with his truck.

3 how it ended

I then exited Douchebag city through a gate in the fence, and walked through Park Extension. In about 10 minutes, a police car stopped by me and through the speaker, the policewoman told me she wanted to talk to me. I stopped and she gets out of the car.

(Demeanor is important. During the following, I stood legs apart, back straight, hands on my hips, never for one second not looking straight at the policewoman and never moving at all — this is to convey that I am 200% cocksure about myself — no shifty eyes — and that I am not intimidated by the badge or the good looks; cops will count on people being afraid of them or intimidated. By not being afraid and asserting your rights, you drive them the message that they are not all gods. Never at any time anyone shouted; conversation was all very civil, even though I was adamantly firm in making my points. By contrast, in Ottawa, I was shouted at the whole time. Finally, in the exchange below, I have put in red what I should not have said and what the police said is in blue in italic).

— What is it this about? (I actually said "c'est à quel sujet", which is actually snob talk — only a high-class snob would say that*; this is to mean that I know what I am doing, I know I am right and I am not a run-of-the-mill sheep who does not know his rights)

— I would like to see some ID.

— What for? Are you arresting me? Are you detaining me?

— No.

— Then I don't have to give you ID.

— There has been an event with you.

— So?

— What did happen?

— I have been harrassed by a security guard in [Douchebag City]. (I should have not said that; although I made it sound more like a complaint, I was volunteering information, which one should never do. What I should have said is “I have nothing to say” — not “nothing”).

— Yes, he called us.

— You should give him a ticket for calling you for no reason.

— What?

— If I call "911" repeatedly for no reason, you're going to give me a ticket, no?

— He said you have been taking pictures?

— This is not illegal. It's a beautiful day, I'm taking a walk though a "nice" neighbourhood and I snap pictures of houses.

— I have to see ID.

— Are you detaining me?

— We are investigating the incident.

— Do you have probable cause to believe something illegal was done?

— We don't know yet, that's why I have to see ID.

— Refusing to show ID when you don't have probable cause is not probable cause that could let you ask for ID.

— Can I see the pictures?

— I do not consent to be searched.

— I an not searching you, I just want to see your pictures.

— I do not consent to be searched.

At that time, backup arrives; two cops get out from another cruiser and call her to speak to her. After about 2 minutes, I walk a bit closer, never letting my gaze get off the cops. The two cops talking don't look at me, whilst the third does (I studiously ignore him)

Then the policewoman turned to me and said that

— All is okay, you can go, enjoy the beautiful day.

— Enjoy it too; you should be on the beat, it will be good for your tan (she blushed).

— Oh, we can't do that, we have to answer the calls.

That's it. Total time, no more than 10 minutes. 15 minutes lost because of a douchebag city douche did not like that I was taking pictures of houses.

I hope the city of Montréal will bill Douchebag City for wasting the time of the police for nothing.

4 conclusion

What happenned is that I was hassled for no valid reason, the cops were sent after me, and in the end, they do not know who they have dealt with. When you give your information to the cops, there is not telling what they are going to do with it, no one knows in which file it ends up. Ironically, I could not even ask a FOIA request about what information they have, because they do not know who I am.

When you are right, and I was right, the cops cannot do anything to you. When you have done nothing wrong, they do not have the right to ask for identification.

If I had given them identification when first asked, I would have consended to have my civil rights violated. This is exactly what the cops expect of sheeple, to nibble bit by bit the civil liberties. By firmly asserting your rights you remind them that they are not gods who are above the laws.

They cannot search you either; they can forcefully search you only after you are arrested. Asking to see the pictures is nothing less than a search; consenting to a search when there is no probable cause is an abdication of one's civil rights.

Never, ever volunteer any information under any circumstances. Everything you say can be used against you. You notice above that the chat was minimal, and was mostly to assert my rights. Actually, even the last chit-chat was superfluous — right now I am biting my lips for saying that.

You have absolutely no obligation to talk to the police whatsoever. Even when arrested, or rather, especially when arrested. They have the right to ask what they want, and you have the absolute right not to answer anything — but be careful because attitude and reaction are non-verbal communication.

5 What's next?

Upon consultation of my counsel, I will see the avenues left to me. I suppose that I could involve the commission des droits de la personne, as I was obviously singled out because I was taking pictures or vecause I did not have a car.

And I will also militate within the Parti-Québécois to insure that when they get back to power, they will remerge all the cities in Montréal (that should not be too hard, the demergers are a fiasco in any case; the city as it is right now is practically ungovernable), in order to definitely eliminate Douchebag City and borg them into Montréal.

6 Extra stuff

I particularly recommend you watch those two videos: "never talk to the police" with Prof. James Duane and officer George Bruch, part 1 and part 2. It's 45 minutes in total, but it drives home the point; although this is in the United States, it fully applies to us too. This won't be 45 wasted minutes. And it will tell you why you should volunteer extra information to the cops.

* Never mind that I am flat-broke right now…

One precision: at no time whatsoever before or after the encounter with the douche or the cops have I ever set foot on private property. I was always on the sidewalk when I took my pictures except when I crossed a street.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow lol i dont see the point as to why they would do that to you but also i do not understand what is douchebag city

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s a city that acts very obnoxiously, so I call it a bad word… You can only access it through the corners: on the east side, it has a fence with gates they lock on Hallow’een so the children from outside can’t go trick-or-treating there, on the south, there is a railroad track, on the west there is an industrial park and on the north, there is a highway that elsewhere is elevated, but the specifically demanded the highway be built at ground level to insure that no one could come in the city from the north.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s a city that acts very obnoxiously, so I call it a bad word… You can only access it through the corners: on the east side, it has a fence with gates they lock on Hallow’een so the children from outside can’t go trick-or-treating there, on the south, there is a railroad track, on the west there is an industrial park and on the north, there is a highway that elsewhere is elevated, but the specifically demanded the highway be built at ground level to insure that no one could come in the city from the north.
So this entire city is the City of Westmount?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Town of Mont-Royal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this entire city is the City of Westmount?
No, no, no. Westmount is quite cool about that; I grew up and have been living right next to it for nearly 30 years and I've been there thousands of times biking or walking and taking pictures of the houses of the billionnaires who live there, and I never have ever been hassled.

Douchebag City, on the other hand is a totally different planet. I have been hassled for taking bus pictures in Ottawa, which could be explained as being “strange”, but Douchebag City cherry-tops the sundæ by hassling people who take pictures of the houses there. But again, only millionnaires live there, so they’re bound to be petty people.

As I said above, they used to have their own police that kicked-out strangers with cheap cars and they lock the gates on Hallow’een.

(And to think I put the original planned map on their Wikipedia page. Bastards!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I saw a guy walking down my street taking pictures of my house I'd be a little paranoid too...

Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I saw a guy walking down my street taking pictures of my house I'd be a little paranoid too...

Just saying.

Yep. So would I!

However, if you have an older house you should be able to appreciate that someone might be interested in it's history, even if that's just by taking a photo. I'm kind of assuming there are some older houses in Mount Royal... and that would be the type of thing I'm after, although my interest in old buildings is more so in industrial and commercial buildings.

I have to admit, since I've started to take some photos of taxis for historical documenation purposes, I'm waiting for my first encounter with an angry cab driver. I could certainly understand if they would be upset, a bit more than a bus driver.

None the less, that was an informative and interesting read emdx!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I saw a guy walking down my street taking pictures of my house I'd be a little paranoid too...
And, pray tell, how would that be?

Still, it’s perfectly legal to do so, so there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to “investigate” that; it’s no different than taking pictures of buses, really.

We’re not in a police state, we don’t have to justify our conduct to anyone at all (which is mostly the point I made with that confrontation).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting the map. I was just there on Saturday, on both sides of the fence.

First I was at Parc watching route 80, I could see down the road towards Mont Royal, but of course I had no idea what was down Avenue Ogilvy.

Then we went to Cote-des-Neiges, where we caught route 165 down to the Mont Royal AMT station.

Going down Blvd Laird I thought the houses were quite beautiful, I even considered, briefly, taking a photo of one or two of them. I now wonder what would have happened being on an STM bus!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I often go to TMR with two SLR's and Lowepro backpack, taking pictures of pretty much everything I find interesting, be it on the CN line, Rockland centre, parks, streets. I've never been harassed, I've never even seen a public security car following me.

And please, don't tell me merges were successful. They just should have made a common island police, firefighters, transit etc. That would have been good enough. Is the STM really that different from the STCUM?

Is there a single thing you actually like? Obviously not rich people, as your positions on St-Lambert and TMR show. The new artics are a torture chamber. The new multilevel looks terrible. The bus lines' names are bad. Radio-Canada can't use proper terminology.

Far from me the idea of approving chasing photographers.

But allow me to retort. I was taking pictures in Parc-Extension, on Park and Jean-Talon, in front of the McDo and the SAQ-CP station. At one point, I looked through the viewfinder but did not take a picture. I had a pretty big lens on it, with a lens hood and a battery grip on my camera, plus another camera on my shoulder. An old man (a Black man in his late 50's, probably) then comes up to me and tells me he'll call the police and that he can sue me because I took his picture, that I don't have the right to do that etc. Two other people (Arabs, most probably), that allegedly were in the shot too, came and approved him. They wouldn't even let me tell them they were wrong, that I can take any picture I want from a public place, like a sidewalk, though I can't publish it for money without their consent. I said it nonetheless, but they didn't stop talking so I don't think they heard what I said. After a few mins of them yelling at me, I just walked back to Outremont through TMR (bloody me! Where did I park my Bentley?) and they followed me for about 3-4 blocks.

In my experience, immigrants are far more douchebaggy than anglophone millionaires. But I won't make a generalisation and say that all people in Parc-Extension are douchefags disconnected from the Canadian reality of freedom of speech.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I often go to TMR with two SLR's and Lowepro backpack, taking pictures of pretty much everything I find interesting, be it on the CN line, Rockland centre, parks, streets. I've never been harassed, I've never even seen a public security car following me.
Well, what can I say? Maybe you’re luckier than me. Or maybe you did not enter through the Park Extension fence.
And please, don't tell me merges were successful. They just should have made a common island police, firefighters, transit etc. That would have been good enough. Is the STM really that different from the STCUM?
Oh, yes, the mergers were successful: the suburbs finally had to pay their fair share of taxes, and were no longer in position for NIMBYing like they always do. And the urban planning was harmonized so you would not have assinine things like strip malls facing another municipality.

Merging the cities was decades overdue, never done because of lack of political courage, and undone for useless sycophantic reasons (the west-island **ALWAYS** votes liberal, so it was pretty pointless for Krollebitche* to suck-up to the west-island by promising to de-merge, and it was pretty silly of them to follow-up on a stupid electoral promise).

There is no reason for someone with a more expensive house pay less taxes. After all, houses in Douchebag City would not be worth as much if they were standing in the middle of nowhere; their value is because of the proximity of Montréal. It’s about time they pay their fair share of taxes for the roads they use, for example (they don’t all take the commuter train).

The complaints about the mergers are from the suburbanites who are suddently pissed at having to pay taxes proportional to everyone else; they had setup nice tax ghettoes with lower tax rates so their bigger houses would not be taxed as much as right next door.

Is there a single thing you actually like? Obviously not rich people, as your positions on St-Lambert and TMR show. The new artics are a torture chamber. The new multilevel looks terrible. The bus lines' names are bad. Radio-Canada can't use proper terminology.

Far from me the idea of approving chasing photographers.

What I like is very simple: a bus that is fun to ride, from which you can see the city go by. I don’t want to ride in a sardine can.

I’m not hard to please, I only ask for a very simple thing: perfection… :)

But allow me to retort. I was taking pictures in Parc-Extension, on Park and Jean-Talon, in front of the McDo and the SAQ-CP station. At one point, I looked through the viewfinder but did not take a picture. I had a pretty big lens on it, with a lens hood and a battery grip on my camera, plus another camera on my shoulder. An old man (a Black man in his late 50's, probably) then comes up to me and tells me he'll call the police and that he can sue me because I took his picture, that I don't have the right to do that etc. Two other people (Arabs, most probably), that allegedly were in the shot too, came and approved him. They wouldn't even let me tell them they were wrong, that I can take any picture I want from a public place, like a sidewalk, though I can't publish it for money without their consent. I said it nonetheless, but they didn't stop talking so I don't think they heard what I said. After a few mins of them yelling at me, I just walked back to Outremont through TMR (bloody me! Where did I park my Bentley?) and they followed me for about 3-4 blocks.
I would have told him to call the police; I’d have waited to take a picture of his face when the police would have told him to go pound sand… No, wait, I would have called the police myself for harassment.
In my experience, immigrants are far more douchebaggy than anglophone millionaires. But I won't make a generalisation and say that all people in Parc-Extension are douchefags disconnected from the Canadian reality of freedom of speech.
Well, maybe if one is lucky in Park Extension one is unlucky in Douchebag City and vice-versa… :)

Never had any problem in Parc-Extension. Douchebaggy millionnaires never do their douchebaggery directly, they always use underlings to do so.

* “Little curls” in Brussels slang — that’s Jean-Charest for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would have told him to call the police; I’d have waited to take a picture of his face when the police would have told him to go pound sand… No, wait, I would have called the police myself for harassment.

Yeah, most people say it's a good idea, so the offenders will stfu, but if I did that every time it happened, all the cops in the city would know me by my name.

Actually not even, I rarely am stopped. Still, I usually cba to spend 20 mins explaining the situation to the cops.

Never had any problem in Parc-Extension. Douchebaggy millionnaires never do their douchebaggery directly, they always use underlings to do so.

I'd rather have a policeman in a car following me in a car than having two 25-year old massive Arabs following me and yelling at me for a few blocks.

Rich people can fence off their house if they please. If the gate is closed, the guy living on Melbourne street in TMR will have to go buy milk all the way to the Beaumont centre, Rockland centre, or near the Mount-Royal station, even if there's a convenience store just on the other side of Acadie. You'll tell me that people in TMR all have cars anyways. I can't deny that.

When I go on streets like St-Roch, a bit East of Acadie, I can tell the locals aren't quite welcoming my white skin and black Nikons. They don't call the cops, they just stand near me, watch me, walk around me, go in my pictures then ask me why I took their picture. Jews in Outremont, around Park Avenue and in the southern part of TMR (south of the CP line) usually do the same. If I lived in TMR, I wouldn't want people to come around me while I was planting flowers in front of my house. It's legal, you'll say, to laugh at people gardening. Yes, it is; but so is a fence. Law isn't what is right; it's what has been established right and can be changed. What is right always has been, is, and will be right; law will change.

You just can't generalise and say that because TMR calls cops on people, they're all douchefags. I could say all Black people steal Cadillacs like you say all TMR'ers are douchefags who call the cops on every stranger. It's still far from Texas, where minutemen shoot on sight Mexicans crossing the Rio Grande. There, another generalisation.

It’s about time they pay their fair share of taxes for the roads they use, for example (they don’t all take the commuter train).

Certainly. But for instance, Lavallers who come on the island every week day won't pay for the roads they use in Montreal as much as TMR people do. This is unfair. I think it would be a better idea to raise the taxes on immatriculation, or gas, and give that raise to the cities. That way, let's say a Lavaller does half his trip in Mtl and half in Laval; statistically, he'd buy his oil 50% of the time in Montreal, barring other factors, and thus, would give his tax money to each city over a certain time period.

Or just make every single road of provincial authority, though I don't even want to think of all the atrocities that would create.

I’m not hard to please, I only ask for a very simple thing: perfection… :P

You're worse than my dad :)

I'm not sure perfection in transit, elevated highways or the haircut of a premier is the #1 priority in the world. It sure could all be better, but I'm pretty sure that just having the pope encouraging the use of condoms would be a much, much better thing for the planet than removing a fence.

We'll never know perfection. It is an ideal we just can't achieve. Plato was kind of right on that: there is the world of the perfect ideas, and our world.

And on a semi-related note, the fence between TMR and the CP yard is always, well, fenced. When CP trains actually were there, up to last summer, there had always been a few holes so I could pass. But now I guess it's the UdM that repairs the holes, much to my dismay. The Outremont side still has more holes than fence, though. Going to the Metro grocery used to take me about 5 mins through the yard, now it's about 10 mins by the viaduct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh, yes, the mergers were successful: the suburbs finally had to pay their fair share of taxes, and were no longer in position for NIMBYing like they always do. And the urban planning was harmonized so you would not have assinine things like strip malls facing another municipality.

Merging the cities was decades overdue, never done because of lack of political courage, and undone for useless sycophantic reasons (the west-island **ALWAYS** votes liberal, so it was pretty pointless for Krollebitche* to suck-up to the west-island by promising to de-merge, and it was pretty silly of them to follow-up on a stupid electoral promise).

There is no reason for someone with a more expensive house pay less taxes. After all, houses in Douchebag City would not be worth as much if they were standing in the middle of nowhere; their value is because of the proximity of Montréal. It’s about time they pay their fair share of taxes for the roads they use, for example (they don’t all take the commuter train).

The complaints about the mergers are from the suburbanites who are suddently pissed at having to pay taxes proportional to everyone else; they had setup nice tax ghettoes with lower tax rates so their bigger houses would not be taxed as much as right next door.

Hmmm, if they were "successful" for Montreal, they sure weren't successful for Ottawa.

Ottawa went through Amalgamation, no body supported it in this city. Taxes went up, services went down, and our voices were silenced.

And don't call me a suburbanite because I live in what OC Transpo calls Downtown Ottawa.

In Ottawa, where ever you go in this city, ask anyone about amalgamation, 95% of people will speak against it.

Before the former City of Ottawa was responsible for plowing the streets and sidewalks only inside Ottawa, the rest of the municipalities plowed their own. Now since amalgamation, the plows take forever to plow a street because it takes about 45 minutes to go from one end of this amalgamated city to the other. (From Cumberland to Stittsville)

I know Ottawa is a completely different situation than Montreal, as our municipalities were huge (except Rockcliffe and Vanier) enough that they weren't "Tax ghettos". Though I wouldn't say Vanier was a Tax Ghetto because it was actually a real ghetto before amalgamation, now it's very safe. Rockcliffe however was probably the only tax ghetto in Ottawa, but their taxes were relatively high because they paid the City of Ottawa for sewage, storm sewers, roads, and a fair bit. So they paid their fair share.

As far as the road situation goes, in Ottawa our Regional Government (Regional Municipality of Ottawa-Carleton) was big enough that 50% of the land in Ottawa-Carleton was farm land. So we never had a problem with people from outside Ottawa-Carleton using our roads in mass numbers. Only major problem comes from Gatineau, but they usually buy stuff in Ottawa.

But all the artillery roads in Ottawa (main roads) have a road number. For example, Regional Road 73 is Prince of Wales drive. The main roads with numbers are roads that were maintained by the Regional Government. Everything else like local side roads were lower municipal government's responsibility.

So the way Ottawa-Carleton was set up was very efficient. If anything, before amalgamation, the city was more united on issues, but now we are more divided on issues because everyone wants stuff for their own area now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmmm, if they were "successful" for Montreal, they sure weren't successful for Ottawa.

Ottawa went through Amalgamation, no body supported it in this city. Taxes went up, services went down, and our voices were silenced.

Before the former City of Ottawa was responsible for plowing the streets and sidewalks only inside Ottawa, the rest of the municipalities plowed their own. Now since amalgamation, the plows take forever to plow a street because it takes about 45 minutes to go from one end of this amalgamated city to the other. (From Cumberland to Stittsville)

I know Ottawa is a completely different situation than Montreal, as our municipalities were huge (except Rockcliffe and Vanier) enough that they weren't "Tax ghettos". Though I wouldn't say Vanier was a Tax Ghetto because it was actually a real ghetto before amalgamation, now it's very safe. Rockcliffe however was probably the only tax ghetto in Ottawa, but their taxes were relatively high because they paid the City of Ottawa for sewage, storm sewers, roads, and a fair bit. So they paid their fair share.

Mr. Wright speaks true. It's pretty much the same here, imo. Though a single police and firefighting force is an the advantage.

We used to have 11 disctricts in Outremont. Now we have 4, and we had 2 in 2001. Dead leaves and snow were taken off the street quickly. Parks were in a better shape. At least, we still have out own lampposts and street name plates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, most people say it's a good idea, so the offenders will stfu, but if I did that every time it happened, all the cops in the city would know me by my name.

Actually not even, I rarely am stopped. Still, I usually cba to spend 20 mins explaining the situation to the cops.

CBA?

I'd rather have a policeman in a car following me in a car than having two 25-year old massive Arabs following me and yelling at me for a few blocks.
I seldom take pictures of people; if I do, it’s because they are far away.
Rich people can fence off their house if they please.
A city is not private property. Douchebag City acts like if it was a gated community. This is absolutely intolerable; public thoroughfares are public.
When I go on streets like St-Roch, a bit East of Acadie, I can tell the locals aren't quite welcoming my white skin and black Nikons. They don't call the cops, they just stand near me, watch me, walk around me, go in my pictures then ask me why I took their picture. Jews in Outremont, around Park Avenue and in the southern part of TMR (south of the CP line) usually do the same.
I guess it’s an universal reaction: in other threads about bus driver reactions, we see exactly the same reactions from drivers:

— Why did you take my picture

— I didn’t, I took your bus…

If I lived in TMR, I wouldn't want people to come around me while I was planting flowers in front of my house. It's legal, you'll say, to laugh at people gardening. Yes, it is; but so is a fence. Law isn't what is right; it's what has been established right and can be changed. What is right always has been, is, and will be right; law will change.
What do you mean? When I was taking pictures of houses, if there was someone in a picture I wanted to take, I waited for him to go away; I didn’t want anyone in the picture, it’s the house I wanted.
You just can't generalise and say that because TMR calls cops on people, they're all douchefags. I could say all Black people steal Cadillacs like you say all TMR'ers are douchefags who call the cops on every stranger. It's still far from Texas, where minutemen shoot on sight Mexicans crossing the Rio Grande. There, another generalisation.
We’re not talking about cops, we’re talking about municipal security guards. If people called the cops for a photographer, the cops would tell them to go pound sand. The city security, on the other hand, was happy to have someone to chew on — it’s well known how security guards have unfulfilled power complexes. He just found a thougher nut than he thought, and called the cops — after threatening me to do so.
Certainly. But for instance, Lavallers who come on the island every week day won't pay for the roads they use in Montreal as much as TMR people do. This is unfair. I think it would be a better idea to raise the taxes on immatriculation, or gas, and give that raise to the cities. That way, let's say a Lavaller does half his trip in Mtl and half in Laval; statistically, he'd buy his oil 50% of the time in Montreal, barring other factors, and thus, would give his tax money to each city over a certain time period.
Well, the next step is obviously a gigacity, with Laval and the South-Shore…
I'm pretty sure that just having the pope encouraging the use of condoms would be a much, much better thing for the planet than removing a fence.
It’s not the fence. It’s the attitude. The same kind of attitude that makes the pope refuse condoms as the attitude that kicks stangers out of Douchebag City — go read my story, 2 years ago I was also kicked out even though I had no camera.
We'll never know perfection. It is an ideal we just can't achieve.
There is no wrong in trying.
And on a semi-related note, the fence between TMR and the CP yard is always, well, fenced. When CP trains actually were there, up to last summer, there had always been a few holes so I could pass. But now I guess it's the UdM that repairs the holes, much to my dismay. The Outremont side still has more holes than fence, though. Going to the Metro grocery used to take me about 5 mins through the yard, now it's about 10 mins by the viaduct.
Naughty boy. Thou shalt not cross thy railroad tracks…

17 out of the last 20 years, I have been living right next to the CN mainline in St-Henri, and it’s a great spot to take train pictures. Yet in all those years, I crossed the tracks no more than 20 times. All the other times I used either the crossings or the underpasses.

Hmmm, if they were "successful" for Montreal, they sure weren't successful for Ottawa.
That’s because they were done during the “Nonsense Revolution”… :):):)

The context in Ottawa is very different; a smallish city with an intractable urban planning agency that does not answer to anyone (the NCC) and a leapfrogged green-belt… Even though I lived one year in Ottawa, I am not cognizant with all the data, so I will not comment further on that case, except to say that if it doesn’t work well, maybe the people don’t want it to…

As far as the road situation goes, … So we never had a problem with people from outside Ottawa-Carleton using our roads in mass numbers. Only major problem comes from Gatineau, but they usually buy stuff in Ottawa.
And conversely, people in Ottawa to Gatineau, to avoid the salestax on furniture…
We used to have 11 disctricts in Outremont. Now we have 4, and we had 2 in 2001. Dead leaves and snow were taken off the street quickly. Parks were in a better shape. At least, we still have out own lampposts and street name plates.
I lived 12 years in Outremont from 1976 to 1988. It’s not only in Outremont that services have deteriorated, they have deteriorated in Montréal, too.

The idea with amalgamation is economies of scale, and the elimination of duplicate administrative jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CBA?

Can't be arsed.

We’re not talking about cops, we’re talking about municipal security guards. If people called the cops for a photographer, the cops would tell them to go pound sand. The city security, on the other hand, was happy to have someone to chew on — it’s well known how security guards have unfulfilled power complexes. He just found a thougher nut than he thought, and called the cops — after threatening me to do so.
Some cops also do the same thing. Every day, people on photo forums are being harassed by cops, security agents, regular people. It's only when there's someone intelligent enough among the crowd of cops to agree with the photographer that they finally realise they can't do a thing.
It’s not the fence. It’s the attitude. The same kind of attitude that makes the pope refuse condoms as the attitude that kicks stangers out of Douchebag City — go read my story, 2 years ago I was also kicked out even though I had no camera.
You might be right.
There is no wrong in trying.

I'm not sure about that. We'll just end up being sad because we failed. Doing something great is much better, since achieving the original goals is better than failing. Quoting my brother, 'trying is the first step towards failure'.

But the world has taught me that great stuff doesn't exist, not even good stuff does. There are so many ridiculous laws. In Maine, if a guy and a girl skinny dip, the guy will have a fine but the girl won't, because the law is based on exposure of the genitalia. But girls' are inside them. That's the kind of stuff that really pisses me off.

I think we are against similar stupidity across the world. I won't accuse all Maine to be homophobic, but you might. I'm pretty sure we agree in general, but please, do stop making generalisations.

The idea with amalgamation is economies of scale, and the elimination of duplicate administrative jobs.

Uh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some cops also do the same thing. Every day, people on photo forums are being harassed by cops, security agents, regular people. It's only when there's someone intelligent enough among the crowd of cops to agree with the photographer that they finally realise they can't do a thing.
You hold your end. When I had 3 cops on me in Ottawa thinking I was a terrorist because I took this picture:

VieilAutobus.jpg

We argued and shouted for 30 minutes and it eventually dawned on them that they were wrong. Took a while, but I was fully prepared to be hauled to the police station. That too was after security guards (transit rent-a-cops — that’s before they became special constables; I’m not surprised that that little caper was a reason why they changed to special constables, so they didn’t had to ask the cops to hit the miscreants).

You can change things if you put your mind to it, and when it makes big sense, you don’t need to bust your arse too much.

Two examples:

— When the “new” Dorval bus and commuter train station opened some 25 years ago, if you wanted to go by foot from the STCUM station to the VIA station, you had to cross the world-famous Dorval circle. Twice.

I went to the Commission Permanente du Transport, whose president was Peter “$20-a-pothole” Yeomans, and I asked him this:

— Congratulations for your nice shiny new train station. Now, can you explain us why do we have to cross the Dorval circle twice in order to walk to the VIA Rail station?

His face, which was beaming after hearing the first part, suddently lengthened at least 172.8%. He took a note and said:

— Thanks, I’m taking note of it, we’ll see what we can do.

Several days later, a service gate in the fence between the VIA platform and the bus loop was left open, and it stayed so until a sidewalk was built between the two stations a few months later. (I suppose that what took longest was negociating with CN to build a sidewalk on their property…)

* * *

I was taking the bus to go up north at the Voyageur terminal and I decided to get some stuff at a nearby dépanneur. It was during the Juste Pourri festival, where they search bags to make sure you don’t bring your booze and threaten their exclusive beer contract. I had a huge backpack filled with 2 weeks worth of clothing — no way I was going there just for laughing. When I passed the gate, the guards were not looking and I sailed right through. They only noticed when I was at the dépanneur and they started to run after me while I was inside.

They said they want to look in my bag. (In theory, they can do so if you go to a private venue, but this was on the street, so it’s a gray area. They may argue that they have rented the street from the city and it becomes a private venue, however the Civil Code says that if a private property is only accessible via another private property, you cannot deny passage). I refused (for principle and it would have been stupid to go through a huge bag, especially that my bus was leaving in 20 minutes in order to just go to a stupid dépanneur). He starts shouting at me, very rudely and calls “backup”. In the end, while I took my sweet time shopping, I had 6 security guards shouting at me and me shouting back at them. At least they knew very well that they were it if they touched me even with their pinkies, the dépanneur had wall-to-wall security cameras. When I had chosen my bag of chips and whatnot, I started to wait in line, after the 15 people who were waiting.

One of the guards said “you go ahead of everybody”.

— I will gently and politely wait for my turn, like everybody else in line.

So, everybody in line deliberately took their sweet time to pay and chat with the cashiers, it was so funny to see the security guards fuming more and more as the line took it’s time to get to me.

Of course, I was escorted off the premises by the 6 guards, but I didn’t really care, I had a bus to catch. If I had more time, I would have asked them to get the police kick me out (if they had touched me, it would have been assault and I would have gone full hilt).

Obviously, the dépanneur (a big chain) complained about it, 6 guards storming in the store and harassing one of their customers, and the Juste Pourri festival eventually put barriers between the sidewalk and the street so the people could go to the stores unmolested by the beer contract guardians.

You see, everyone can do change, all it takes is the ability to become a total anal asshole about what you believe in.

Think of Rosa Parks (hey, that’s about buses!!! — the new artics send you to the back of the bus if you don’t want a sideways seat).

I'm not sure about that. We'll just end up being sad because we failed. Doing something great is much better, since achieving the original goals is better than failing. Quoting my brother, 'trying is the first step towards failure'.
100px-Robots_Fender.jpg Never try, never fail! Or “Win some, lose most of them” (a cousin).
But the world has taught me that great stuff doesn't exist, not even good stuff does. There are so many ridiculous laws. In Maine, if a guy and a girl skinny dip, the guy will have a fine but the girl won't, because the law is based on exposure of the genitalia. But girls' are inside them. That's the kind of stuff that really pisses me off.
Go to Vermont:)

Go figure… Likewise, here, it’s criminal to be naked in public. Yet, in june, there was the world naked bike ride (Google is your friend) where bikes biked naked in the city under police escort. So, here were some people performing a criminal act with the police looking and doing nothing.

I think we are against similar stupidity across the world. I won't accuse all Maine to be homophobic, but you might. I'm pretty sure we agree in general, but please, do stop making generalisations.
Only generalizations can get people mobilized. And I want to mobilize people.

If we go 10 people in Park Extension and take pictures of all the good-looking people (I find that dark skin makes people look much better) and they start being uppity about it, the ensuing ruckus will do far more than any random arguing with random strangers. All you need is people willing to fight for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not against the law against public nudity (well, I am, I mean, what does it change in my life if the guy walking down the street is naked?), but rather that there's a discrimination against something that you can't chose, can't change, ie your sex. If it had been, for instance, people over the age of 45 can be naked, it'd be fine: in due time, you can be naked if you want to, and if you die before you're 45, you have other things to care about. In due time though, a guy won't become a girl (or it's pretty rare and expensive anyway).

I might be going in Vermont next summer. :P

A sign that a law is outdated is when the cops see the crime and do nothing about it, like smoking weed or biking naked. But then, when people are going at 112km/h on the highway, the police usually don't stop them. Why not putting the limit at 110 and then give a fine to everyone who goes over the limit by a single km/h?

Overall, the more I go on the web and the more I listen to TV, the less I'm convinced that humanity is on the right track.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now