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MUNI (San Francisco, CA)

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Strickly looking at internal combustion buses... and this is a minor point... both run diesels and hybrids, but, MUNI also runs CNG.

I think you meant MBTA... ;)

They both have rather extensive streetcar systems although I think Boston's is bigger and has more variety of LRV types.

Combining MBTA's Green Line and Mattapan Line, Boston's light rail system is 28 miles long with a daily ridership of ~243,000. The Muni Metro system is much larger, with 71.5 route miles -- but its daily ridership is only around 163,000. Boston has two types of LRVs plus the PCCs, though -- and Muni only has one type of LRV.

Even after the Orion purchase, MUNI bought second hand Gillig Phantoms from sister agency AC Transit. These buses are painted in the newer scheme but retain their AC Transit fleet numbers

Does Muni use the Phantoms in regular service or are they just training/non-revenue buses? (EDIT - never mind, looks like the destination sign has a faint "71" in the corner...)

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Interesting enough, their Orion VII HEV have also retrofitted with Lithium battery!

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Interesting enough, their Orion VII HEV have also retrofitted with Lithium battery!

However, the difference between Toronto and MUNI is that MUNI paid for the conversions out of their own pocket. They started getting converted in early 2009.

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However, the difference between Toronto and MUNI is that MUNI paid for the conversions out of their own pocket. They started getting converted in early 2009.

Ouch! Their battery warrantly have expired!

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The most famous and well used of MUNI’s services is the famed F-Line which operates historic streetcars from the 1920s to the 1950s. The balance of the fleet are Presidential Conference Cars otherwise known as PCCs. All but eleven come from Philadelphia and date back to the early 1940s. Other streetcars come from as far away as Australia and Italy and even a few are original MUNI

cars that were refurbished to operate on the F-Line.

First up are PCC #1057 & 1059, painted for Cincinnati & Boston respectively. Both are pictured at the western end of the F-Line in the heart of the Castro district:

WCT3315.jpg

PCC #1015, one of the original MUNI double ended cars painted for the Illinois Terminal system is seen just south of the first photo. MUNI operates only three of these cars in active service:

WCT3316.jpg

MUNI acquired 11 cars from Milan, Italy designed by Peter Witt back in the 1920s, some of which are still in service there. Here is #1815 in Downtown in the Milan paint scheme:

WCT3335.jpg

In addition to the Peter Witt cars, MUNI added 11 wide bodied PCCs from Newark, New Jersey, several of which have entered service. Among them is #1076, painted for D.C Transit:

WCT3584.jpg

Car #1055 has the distinction of wearing the Philadelphia Transportation Company scheme twice in its service life. Once as PTC car #2122 and the other in its current state. Here it is heading back to Balboa Park using J-Church line tracks:

WCT3343.jpg

Car #1075, painted for the Cleveland Transit System is in service working a tripper stretch from 17th & Castro to Balboa Park via J line tracks:

WCT3345.jpg

Peter Witt #1818, painted in two tone green is pictured heading westbound towards Fisherman’s Wharf during AM rush hour:

WCT3601.jpg

Back to the Castro we go for this shot of #1059, this time leading the pack:

WCT3630.jpg

PCC #1060, painted in the 1938 PTC scheme is turning onto 17th & Noe which crosses the eastbound F-Line track:

WCT3631.jpg

Another of the double ended PCCs #1007 at the same spot. #1007 is painted in another homage to Philadelphia, this time for its suburban system:

WCT3632.jpg

The prettiest of the three double enders is most certainly #1010, painted in the original blue & gold scheme of 1930s MUNI:

WCT3639.jpg

Birmingham Alabama is also featured with car #1077, riding by as old glory waves in the wind:

WCT3641.jpg

As twilight descends on San Francisco, PCCs continue to carry tourists and regular passengers alike. Here is #1056, painted for Kansas City Public Service system:

WCT3583.jpg

Car #1051 in the simplified MUNI scheme does a car exchange with 1076 on the extra track near the Streetcar Museum:

WCT3585.jpg

The last two were photographed at Fisherman’s Wharf in an attempt to be artistic:

WCT3588.jpg

WCT3590.jpg

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I almost forgot to post these. I recorded some rides and put together a neat video of the F-Line cars in action. Enjoy

PCC #1053 (Brooklyn Car):

Peter Witt #1859:

A very speedy ride on PCC #1051:

A short ride on #1076 before being switched out for having no heat:

PCC #1060 was the best of them all. The motors roared in this one:

1060 again, this time making the turn from Market:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr4vflnnuEQ

This video contains the cars I didn’t photograph:

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I would love to check out the MUNI. I love the Neoplans, but I have to get used to the back window. I'm from Philly, the city that made Neoplans famous and I just can't get used to a rear window on a Neoplan. But I love the MUNI system. Boston has a very similar transit system, but also does Philadelphia. The only difference is that SEPTA does not have articulated ETB's, and I think they should and also convert some routes into ETB lines. but that's a whole different story. Does the Muni plan on replacing some of their older buses in the fleet, like the Phantoms and D60HF's?

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does anyone have a picture of New Flyer D40 8922 that was featured in "Mrs.Doubtfire"?

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So I am going to San Fran next month for a family reunion and wondering if any D60HF's are still in service? I know most are gone, but I was wondering because of the recent video's from the past few weeks of them on Youtube including some substituting for trackless trolleys on routes like the 14.

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So I am going to San Fran next month for a family reunion and wondering if any D60HF's are still in service? I know most are gone, but I was wondering because of the recent video's from the past few weeks of them on Youtube including some substituting for trackless trolleys on routes like the 14.

I was under the impression that the D60's that still remain are kept in as a reserve fleet and only brought into service when needed. Last I heard, there were only 6 remaining. I am awaiting someones correction on that now though.

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A real quick video of my ride on 5634 with the next stop chime and doors opening.

I was happy to see an E60, got a shot albeit obstructed by vehicles. Think I got some of my first NABI 416 photos as well.

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Would anyone happen to have a list of all exposures on the rollsigns found in the old Boeing cars? I've managed to find one from an MBTA car, but finding a list for MUNI is proving to be harder than I thought.

Pictures can be found over time, but a list is what's needed first. Any help would be appreciative.

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SF MUNI will purchase 45 New Hybrid Electric Buses from New Flyer, some rumour said those 45 units are the Xcelsior model~~

These 45 buses will replace the NABI 416 buses~~

http://www.masstransitmag.com/press_release/10773994/sfmta-board-approves-purchase-of-45-new-hybrid-electric-buses

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SF MUNI will purchase 45 New Hybrid Electric Buses from New Flyer, some rumour said those 45 units are the Xcelsior model~~

These 45 buses will replace the NABI 416 buses~~

http://www.masstrans...-electric-buses

How can that be if the Gilligs are older and purchased second hand? There are the same amount of Gilligs as NABIs, I think they're staying around a bit longer.

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Thanks Cathay!

"These new vehicles will replace 13-year-old buses currently in service. . . .All 45 new buses are expected to arrive by the end of summer 2013.

To expedite the purchasing process, the SFMTA joined a current, competitively bid vehicle contract with the State of Minnesota. The vehicles specified under the Minnesota contract were updated to include features necessary for San Francisco’s unique operating environment and high passenger loads. The total vehicle cost will be approximately $33.8 million or $752,000 per vehicle and is funded through federal, state, and local support.

The SFMTA is aggressively pursuing replacement and rehabilitation programs on all buses, light rail vehicles and historic streetcars. Within the next two years, SFMTA expects to purchase 60 articulated trolley buses to replace current 20 year old vehicles. These programs directly support the agency’s two-year budget, focusing on maintenance and infrastructure improvements."

Extra expensive hybrids! I wonder what the necessary features "for San Francisco’s unique operating environment and high passenger loads" are?

Anyone know if these are BAE hybrids, or Allison equipped? Maybe even Voith?

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Thanks Cathay!

"These new vehicles will replace 13-year-old buses currently in service. . . .All 45 new buses are expected to arrive by the end of summer 2013.

To expedite the purchasing process, the SFMTA joined a current, competitively bid vehicle contract with the State of Minnesota. The vehicles specified under the Minnesota contract were updated to include features necessary for San Francisco’s unique operating environment and high passenger loads. The total vehicle cost will be approximately $33.8 million or $752,000 per vehicle and is funded through federal, state, and local support.

The SFMTA is aggressively pursuing replacement and rehabilitation programs on all buses, light rail vehicles and historic streetcars. Within the next two years, SFMTA expects to purchase 60 articulated trolley buses to replace current 20 year old vehicles. These programs directly support the agency’s two-year budget, focusing on maintenance and infrastructure improvements."

Extra expensive hybrids! I wonder what the necessary features "for San Francisco’s unique operating environment and high passenger loads" are?

Anyone know if these are BAE hybrids, or Allison equipped? Maybe even Voith?

They are half split between Allison and BAE.

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They are half split between Allison and BAE.

Thats pretty cool. Sounds like they know enough to get the right application on the right route.

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