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MUNI (San Francisco, CA)

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Lets hoping they maintain the a/c very well, cause MUNI are not known to that!

May have to do with high cost maintenance??

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Well that means I better start getting footage of the 1996 Breda's before they are pulled out. I don't really like the look of these new LRV4's though. Has there been any major problems with the Breda LRV's? I take them almost everyday and experience just about zero problems.

It appears as though the biggest concern is the excessive weight of the Breda LRVs which places extra stress on the rails. In addition they experience frequent malfunctions with doorways and malfunctions with propulsion systems due to clogged intake vents that are under the trains, according to director of transit, John Haley.

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It appears as though the biggest concern is the excessive weight of the Breda LRVs which places extra stress on the rails. In addition they experience frequent malfunctions with doorways and malfunctions with propulsion systems due to clogged intake vents that are under the trains, according to director of transit, John Haley.

Well it's interesting how they said the same exact thing about the Boeing USSLRV's back in the 1990's, and now their replacements (the Breda's) are now being nearly considered lemons. A lot of people who live on the N Judah line complain about excessive rumbling which is true. I remember a lot of track repairs being done in 2010 (probably due to the stress on the track). But, other than that and a few delays (mostly on the T), I still haven't experienced many serious problems with them such as mechanical breakdowns.

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I am here to present the answers to the 1991 NFI D60 questions. In 2007, Muni scrapped all but 7 D60s. 9110 was retired in 2009 and found abandoned a couple years later. 9118 was retired and scrapped in 2013. But, 9106, 9117, 9120, 9121, and 9122 stayed. 9120 is the historic bus. However, I got pictures of the others at the Islais Creek Bus Yard on June 1st, 2014. Here is the bad news, a couple weeks after I got these pictures, they all disappeared. I remember seeing one less when I was on the Caltrain and I saw that 2001 Neoplan AN460 #6291 having its doors taken off and artic section taken off. Then, they were all gone and have not been seen anywhere. They may have been scrapped. :(

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Detroit Diesel, nice reporting in the last post!

Here is an article proclaiming new arctics are coming to Muni:

Federal money to buy a dozen longer buses for Muni

Posted on Monday, September 29 at 12:19pm | By Michael Cabanatuan

Thanks!

Oh no! That means the E60's are soon to be doomed. :'( Oh by the way, remember the shower bus program, exx-AC Transit ex-MUNI 1993 Gillig Phantom 2831 is now a shower bus; it actually looks pretty awesome.

I am not looking foward to these XT60's. :(

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Thanks!

Oh no! That means the E60's are soon to be doomed. :'( Oh by the way, remember the shower bus program, exx-AC Transit ex-MUNI 1993 Gillig Phantom 2831 is now a shower bus; it actually looks pretty awesome.

I am not looking foward to these XT60's. :(

Wait -- are we sure this has anything to do with E60s? My reading of the article was that an existing order for 40-footers was changed to 60-footers, but it's not clear that they're electric trolleys (in fact, one article calls them "motor coaches": http://sfbay.ca/2014/10/01/sfmta-lands-grant-funds-for-new-muni-buses/). Also, there are more than 12 E60s to replace, right?

Of course, replacements for the E60s are coming, but maybe a little later (http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fleet-order/2013/08/seattle-and-san-francisco-trolley-buses/).

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Wait -- are we sure this has anything to do with E60s? My reading of the article was that an existing order for 40-footers was changed to 60-footers, but it's not clear that they're electric trolleys (in fact, one article calls them "motor coaches": http://sfbay.ca/2014/10/01/sfmta-lands-grant-funds-for-new-muni-buses/). Also, there are more than 12 E60s to replace, right?

Of course, replacements for the E60s are coming, but maybe a little later (http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fleet-order/2013/08/seattle-and-san-francisco-trolley-buses/).

Hmm, you might be right, but I hear talk about upcoming XT60's. There are only 28 out of 60 E60's left. If it going to be an XD60 order, then they may not replace anything (at least I hope not).

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Wait -- are we sure this has anything to do with E60s? My reading of the article was that an existing order for 40-footers was changed to 60-footers, but it's not clear that they're electric trolleys (in fact, one article calls them "motor coaches": http://sfbay.ca/2014/10/01/sfmta-lands-grant-funds-for-new-muni-buses/). Also, there are more than 12 E60s to replace, right?

Of course, replacements for the E60s are coming, but maybe a little later (http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fleet-order/2013/08/seattle-and-san-francisco-trolley-buses/).

Good catch, sdlinguist.

But the trolleys purchased together with King County should be coming before this new order of 12 arctics, correct? They were certainly ordered first.

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The 12 new arctics funded this week will . . .

replace 40-foot buses on the 38-Geary, 14L-Mission Limited, 9-San Bruno and 8X-Bayshore Express lines, according to Kristen Holland, public relations officer with the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency.

http://sfappeal.com/2014/09/city-to-upgrade-twelve-buses-thanks-to-federal-grant/

Replace 40 foot buses? These lines all use 60-foot buses except for the 9. The 9 used to use 60 footers as well.

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I was just in San Francisco from Tuesday - today and I have a few MUNI questions.

1.) Does MUNI plan to rehab the ETI / Skoda trolleybuses? They're approximately the same age as the Neoplans yet their interiors, exteriors, and destination signs are all showing significant wear and age. It almost appears that MUNI plans to retire the 60' ETI / Skodas with the New Flyer order (as 60 60' trolleybuses would replace the E60 and 15TrSF fleets).

2.) When does MUNI intend to replace the Neoplans (both the non-rehabbed and rehabbed ones)?

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I was just in San Francisco from Tuesday - today and I have a few MUNI questions.

1.) Does MUNI plan to rehab the ETI / Skoda trolleybuses? They're approximately the same age as the Neoplans yet their interiors, exteriors, and destination signs are all showing significant wear and age. It almost appears that MUNI plans to retire the 60' ETI / Skodas with the New Flyer order (as 60 60' trolleybuses would replace the E60 and 15TrSF fleets).

2.) When does MUNI intend to replace the Neoplans (both the non-rehabbed and rehabbed ones)?

Well you came to the right place. I happen to live here in SF.

1. Some of the ETI Skodas have already been considered to be rehabbed. *Almost* every silver bus that isn't an Orion VII or NFI XDE40 has been rehabbed at one point. They may rehab a few more ETI Skodas unless they are planning on replacing them in a much shorter time than they replaced the previous Flyer E800's. Now I did notice a good amount of ETI Skodas parked at the Islais Park bus yard (same yard I got pictures of our D60's in right before they disappeared). The 1993 NFI E60's are most likely going to be done by next year unfortunately, but I do not think the ETI Skoda 15TrSF's are going anywhere at the moment. Muni claims trolley buses last longer than diesel buses (for example: some 1993 E60's still being kept to this day vs. the majority of the 1991 D60's being trashed in 2007). There are only 28 E60's left and an order of 60 XT60 would most likely be due to the fact that there used to be 60 E60's between 1994-2007.

2. Muni claims that every bus (besides the 2013 XDE40's) will be replaced by 2019. The non-rehabbed ones may head out earlier unfortunately, but the last rehabbed bus may be kept until 2019 (despite being from 2000 or 2002). The 1999 NABI's have already been put in the "half retired" phase. They typically run on very specific routes, usually when the eletric trolley lines need work and they typically run on training coaches. I believe a couple were rehabbed at one point, but not many at all. I actually prefer the NABI's.

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Muni claims that every bus (besides the 2013 XDE40's) will be replaced by 2019. The non-rehabbed ones may head out earlier unfortunately, but the last rehabbed bus may be kept until 2019 (despite being from 2000 or 2002). The 1999 NABI's have already been put in the "half retired" phase. They typically run on very specific routes, usually when the eletric trolley lines need work and they typically run on training coaches. I believe a couple were rehabbed at one point, but not many at all. I actually prefer the NABI's.

Until I checked the Wiki, I didn't realize that MUNI's Orions were built in 2007.

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Well you came to the right place. I happen to live here in SF.

1. Some of the ETI Skodas have already been considered to be rehabbed. *Almost* every silver bus that isn't an Orion VII or NFI XDE40 has been rehabbed at one point. They may rehab a few more ETI Skodas unless they are planning on replacing them in a much shorter time than they replaced the previous Flyer E800's. Now I did notice a good amount of ETI Skodas parked at the Islais Park bus yard (same yard I got pictures of our D60's in right before they disappeared). The 1993 NFI E60's are most likely going to be done by next year unfortunately, but I do not think the ETI Skoda 15TrSF's are going anywhere at the moment. Muni claims trolley buses last longer than diesel buses (for example: some 1993 E60's still being kept to this day vs. the majority of the 1991 D60's being trashed in 2007). There are only 28 E60's left and an order of 60 XT60 would most likely be due to the fact that there used to be 60 E60's between 1994-2007.

2. Muni claims that every bus (besides the 2013 XDE40's) will be replaced by 2019. The non-rehabbed ones may head out earlier unfortunately, but the last rehabbed bus may be kept until 2019 (despite being from 2000 or 2002). The 1999 NABI's have already been put in the "half retired" phase. They typically run on very specific routes, usually when the eletric trolley lines need work and they typically run on training coaches. I believe a couple were rehabbed at one point, but not many at all. I actually prefer the NABI's.

I prefer the NABIs as well. When I last rode them in 2012 they seemed to be in better shape than the Neoplans.

It's a shame that they are planning on retiring the Orion VIIs at 12 years. I'd have thought that, if maintained well enough, they could have lasted 15-16 years at least.

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Until I checked the Wiki, I didn't realize that MUNI's Orions were built in 2007.

Yep, only the first one was built in 2006. They replaced the 1990 Orion I's. How old did you think they were? (just curious) I tend to update certain sections of the SF Muni wiki section almost everyday with more info and pictures.

I prefer the NABIs as well. When I last rode them in 2012 they seemed to be in better shape than the Neoplans.

It's a shame that they are planning on retiring the Orion VIIs at 12 years. I'd have thought that, if maintained well enough, they could have lasted 15-16 years at least.

Yeah the NABI's seem to shift smoother, ride smoother, and even have smooth sounding Cummins ISM's compared to the Neoplans. I last rode them in Feb. 2014 on the 28L until they desserted the route at that time. They still are used, (mostly for training coaches) but I don't see them as often as I used to. Some are in bad shape too, which is unfortunate because MUNI could have easily kept most of them up like they've always done.

I think the 12 year old retirement thing has to do with the whole idea of the U.S. government nearly forcing manufacturers to stop supplying parts after only 12 years, therefore causing unnecessary early retirements. Also, most newer buses don't last as long as older ones built in previous decades, but 15-16 years should have been expected from these.

Here is where 95% of the NABI's are parked. In fact, when I went to this place, I noticed that 1 or a couple more NABI's were actually Ex-MUNI already. Those ex-units are no longer there either. These particular units are typically scrambled all over the place in the parking lots, yet they were nice and neat when I went there.

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MUNI will be seeking board approval to purchase 61 60' hybrid buses from New Flyer, with options for up to 200 40' buses and 163 60' buses. When complete, the order will replace the remaining Neoplans (both 40 foot and 60 foot) as well as the 40 foot Orion VII hybrids. The 30' Orion VII hybrids are planned to be replaced in 2019 with a separate RFP issued for 30 foot buses.

Of note, New Flyer was the only manufacturer to submit a proposal for the RFP.

http://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/agendaitems/2014/12-2-14%20Item%2012%20New%20Flier%20Contract%20for%20vehicle%20procurement.pdf

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MUNI will be seeking board approval to purchase 61 60 foot hybrid buses from New Flyer, with options for up to 200 40 foot hybrid buses and 163 60 foot hybrid buses. When complete, the order will replace the remaining Neoplans (both 40 foot and 60 foot) as well as the 40 foot Orion VII hybrids. The 30' Orion VII hybrids are planned to be replaced in 2019 with a separate RFP issued for 30 foot buses.

Of note, New Flyer was the only manufacturer to submit a proposal for the RFP.

http://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/agendaitems/2014/12-2-14%20Item%2012%20New%20Flier%20Contract%20for%20vehicle%20procurement.pdf

That sounds like a 3-4 year period!

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