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Hamilton Street Railway

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1 hour ago, Byfold said:

I had a source visually verify that 0520, 0601, 0602, 0603, 0611, 0612, 0614, 0701, 0702 and 0703 are all up on the hill.   More are being decommissioned in the shop right now.   Calm your tits kids the info in this thread regarding retirements is very accurate.

Goodbye DE41LFs

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On 5/21/2019 at 4:38 PM, smallspy said:

They are, but they aren't. If we were talking about the US, than yes, I would agree with your statement. But the fact of the matter is that the per-capita ridership of any given town or city in Canada is way, way higher than it is in an equivalent town or city in the US, and it isn't because there are more people on welfare here than there - because that's not the case.

 

That is absolutely, positively not the case. The vast, vast majority of riders on GO are people who use the system over a vehicle, to a far greater percentage than the TTC. (It was as high as 95% at one point in the 1990s.)

 

Congratulations, I guess? I don't see what the point of this is other than to shit on HSR. Those problems that you've listed are certainly not specific to any particular model of bus, or a particular manufacturer, or even a particular transit system for that matter.

 

Also, this goes to proving my point - if you know the difference between a New Flyer and a Nova, you already know more than John Q Public. He doesn't care who makes it. He just wants it to be comfortable, and reliable,  and get there on time.

 

That's the choice that you make, just like a lot of people justify the choices that they make. No different in Hamilton than anywhere else.

 

It's "empirical", but that's okay, this isn't a spelling lesson.

 

As for being a qualitative issue.....that's not true. There are all sorts of ways for the public to qualitatively make the decision to support your hypothesis. I've even laid out a number of ways for them to do so. The fact that they haven't proves that your hypothesis is wrong.

 

Incorrect. See my points above.

 

How many of my points in the past however-many posts have involved comfort and convenience? Of course it matters. Again, this is why amenities such as A/C and more comfortable seating, which used to be seen as "premium" items are now commonplace.

 

But the actual vehicle type has nothing to do with this. The bus is simply a box - you put into it what you want.

 

There is a whole host of reasons why something light-duty such as a school bus won't work. As a transit driver, you'll understand that very quickly if you haven't already.

 

Nice straw man, though.

 

But it's not a fact. I've pointed it out to you time and time again.

 

Emotion - what you are using - is simply not enough of a factor on which to base a multi-million decision which will have ramifications for many years. If you could find some empirical evidence to support your claims, you would have a lot more people agreeing with you, including potentially myself. But the numbers simply don't back up what you are saying.

 

Funny story about that - improved ride quality is in fact frequently touted as a way to get people on-side for LRT construction. The funny part about it, however, is that when they poll the people after the fact - 3 months, 6 months, a year, the time period is almost irrelevant - they find out that people have nothing to say about the ride quality. As it, when prompted about it, the response is almost always "meh". There are far more important things that people are concerned about. Ride quality simply doesn't enter into the equation of why people do or don't want to use it.

 

Dan

Oh my goodness, you're literally A. going in circles, B. changing your argument ever other post and, C. only verifying everything I said.

We're not talking about "boxes", otherwise we'd be talking about U-haul. We're talking about a finished product on a bus route.... Which only occurs when a builder, builds a final product and it gets bought by a transit agency.... Not a box on the curb.

This is getting redundant. I'm not replying anymore. Drive school bus, work in transit, take transit planning in school, meet with transit advocacy groups and managers, see what the minister of transportation has to say.... and most importantly, reach out to riders. Then, come back and make your point, a little more informed.

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11 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Oh my goodness, you're literally A. going in circles, B. changing your argument ever other post and, C. only verifying everything I said.

We're not talking about "boxes", otherwise we'd be talking about U-haul. We're talking about a finished product on a bus route.... Which only occurs when a builder, builds a final product and it gets bought by a transit agency.... Not a box on the curb.

This is getting redundant. I'm not replying anymore. Drive school bus, work in transit, take transit planning in school, meet with transit advocacy groups and managers, see what the minister of transportation has to say.... and most importantly, reach out to riders. Then, come back and make your point, a little more informed.

Cute. And just had to get the last word in, eh?

 

But you're right about one thing - this topic has long since run its course.

 

Dan

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12 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

and most importantly, reach out to riders. Then, come back and make your point, a little more informed.

Personally, I have. The response is almost always "I don't care" or "I never noticed". The only thing I've heard people complain about is excessive engine noise and uncomfortable seats

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14 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Oh my goodness, you're literally A. going in circles, B. changing your argument ever other post and, C. only verifying everything I said.

We're not talking about "boxes", otherwise we'd be talking about U-haul. We're talking about a finished product on a bus route.... Which only occurs when a builder, builds a final product and it gets bought by a transit agency.... Not a box on the curb.

This is getting redundant. I'm not replying anymore. Drive school bus, work in transit, take transit planning in school, meet with transit advocacy groups and managers, see what the minister of transportation has to say.... and most importantly, reach out to riders. Then, come back and make your point, a little more informed.

Professional opinion: You’re not firing on all cylinders.

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2 hours ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

Personally, I have. The response is almost always "I don't care" or "I never noticed". The only thing I've heard people complain about is excessive engine noise and uncomfortable seats

It's one of those things that people don't notice and don't care about - until it gets noticeably uncomfortable.  Right now, ride quality is in the background behind the engine noise and uncomfortable seats.  If either of those improve or ride quality goes south in a big way the subject of the complaints will shift.

Remember, those nasty Birney Safety Cars that street railways loved because they were dirt cheap didn't attract complaints until buses and private automobiles got better and started siphoning off business.  People didn't just complain, they voted with their feet.  So, the electric railway presidents' conference committee got formed to come up with something compelling and competitive that was better in order to win business back or at least stop the hemorrhaging and the PCC was born.  None of that would've been necessary if the theory that it doesn't matter how crappy the public transportation shitbox is, passengers will be happy it shows up and ride it when it comes was true.  It wasn't and it isn't.  You can only let things slide so far before the customers who can leave do leave.

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I was looking at things on Transit55 and DE60LFR #610 caught my eye. It reentered service on 8 June, prior to that it had last been in service on 28 February.

It's surprising to see it back after a 100 day absence given how close it is to the end of its service life. 

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13 hours ago, MT0603 said:

I was looking at things on Transit55 and DE60LFR #610 caught my eye. It reentered service on 8 June, prior to that it had last been in service on 28 February.

It's surprising to see it back after a 100 day absence given how close it is to the end of its service life. 

More than likely needed a part or was pressed back into service. It and 615 are the only remaining DE60LFR’s.

I’ll see if I can get more info. 

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701-709 are all parked according to a source at the HSR.   Not sure if they'll bring any back like 0610.

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I had the thought that only the XN60s were the replacement buses (11) and not the 5 additional Vicinities (5).

Presumably, unless otherwise noted, if 701-709 are all finished as well as 601-603 and 0611-0614, 0616, that totals 17 buses.

Was the total number of replacements supposed to be 17 or higher?

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The 11 XN60 buses and the 6 additional CNG buses were all replacement buses. The HSR fleet will remain at 267 (265 plus 2 replica trolleys). The expansion buses were buses 1701-1719 which were received last year. HSR has had an above average spare ratio the past year or so and it will be interesting to see if all of the September expansion will be able to be handled by the current fleet.

The Vicinities now have numbers and they are 1845-1850.

As for the 0700s, I have not been able to confirm their retirements at this time. They have been moved off property to 330 Wentworth Street while repaving and regrading work is done on the north side of the garage. A new "bus port" is being constructed on that side of the garage to at least provide some shelter to buses stored outside during the winter time.

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4 minutes ago, Seashore_518203 said:

The 11 XN60 buses and the 6 additional CNG buses were all replacement buses. The HSR fleet will remain at 257 (255 plus 2 replica trolleys). The expansion buses were buses 1701-1719 which were received last year. HSR has had an above average spare ratio the past year or so and it will be interesting to see if all of the September expansion will be able to be handled by the current fleet.

The Vicinities now have numbers and they are 1845-1850.

As for the 0700s, I have not been able to confirm their retirements at this time. They have been moved off property to 330 Wentworth Street while repaving and regrading work is done on the north side of the garage. A new "bus port" is being constructed on that side of the garage to at least provide some shelter to buses stored outside during the winter time.

What's taking the XN60s so long to enter service?

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23 minutes ago, STO_1601 said:

What's taking the XN60s so long to enter service?

It takes time to commission a bus and prepare it for service. Multiply that by 17 and that's why it is taking so long.

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Bean curious about this for awhile.
A part from the (Re)envisioning of the HSR that would essentially come into effect in about a year from now, any plans to address the 5 and their confusion branch directional services, including a route number that's identified as a branch direction route and a branch of that branch that is a local service (In Dundas), whether it be frequency, re-vamping that route entirely or something different altogether? I"m curious to see what the HSR has planned for it.
 

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On 6/14/2019 at 8:10 PM, STO_1601 said:

What's taking the XN60s so long to enter service?

There are some prepped and ready for service. You will probably not see them until the fall, as, during the summer the need for buses is not as high.

Also, none of the equipment, as far as I’m aware, is factory installed. I know the cameras are done by an outside vendor and I believe the AA system is as well. They need to install the fareboxes, PRESTO readers, Ranger units and anything else also. 

I’ve been told 701-709 are, in fact retired along with possibly 715, 718 and 721. 

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12 minutes ago, JRM1000 said:

I’ve been told 701-709 are, in fact retired along with possibly 715, 718 and 721. 

I have been told that the only confirmed retirements at this point are 0611-0614 and 0603 for a total of 5 buses.

With 17 new bus deliveries, all of which were replacement, 12 other buses have been placed in storage and are not officially retired at this point. While the equipment has been taken off the buses for installation in the new buses, the possibility remains that new equipment could be installed in the buses, if needed. HSR is concerned about the spare ratio for the fall, as there will be up to 10 peak buses added with the service expansion that will be occurring. The buses in storage, currently at the 330 Wentworth Street garage, will not be used for parts at this point, just in case any need to be brought back. The storage buses are 0520, 0601, 0602, 0701-0709.

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3 hours ago, Seashore_518203 said:

I have been told that the only confirmed retirements at this point are 0611-0614 and 0603 for a total of 5 buses.

With 17 new bus deliveries, all of which were replacement, 12 other buses have been placed in storage and are not officially retired at this point. While the equipment has been taken off the buses for installation in the new buses, the possibility remains that new equipment could be installed in the buses, if needed. HSR is concerned about the spare ratio for the fall, as there will be up to 10 peak buses added with the service expansion that will be occurring. The buses in storage, currently at the 330 Wentworth Street garage, will not be used for parts at this point, just in case any need to be brought back. The storage buses are 0520, 0601, 0602, 0701-0709.

Wow...ok. It seems we have conflicting information. I’ll see what I can get. It’s smart on their part to finally be keeping spare buses. 

Also, I shouldn’t have said retired. I should hand said withdrawn from service, as, like you stated, they’re not being used for parts at this time. 

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17 minutes ago, JRM1000 said:

Wow...ok. It seems we have conflicting information. I’ll see what I can get. It’s smart on their part to finally be keeping spare buses. 

Also, I shouldn’t have said retired. I should hand said withdrawn from service, as, like you stated, they’re not being used for parts at this time. 

You and your information are very unreliable. No one including myself should believe anything you say on this board going forward.

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Spotted artic 1434 on the Bline with a Telus ad on it. The artics were supposed to remain ad free, seems those days could be over unless this is just an anomaly. This is the first time I've seen an ad on an artic so im not sure if other are wrapped as well.

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1 minute ago, Vekoma said:

Spotted artic 1434 on the Bline with a Telus ad on it. The artics were supposed to remain ad free, seems those days could be over unless this is just an anomaly. This is the first time I've seen an ad on an artic so im not sure if other are wrapped as well.

They were suppose to be ad free? I'm pretty sure all their buses are available for advertising.

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2 hours ago, Vekoma said:

Spotted artic 1434 on the Bline with a Telus ad on it. The artics were supposed to remain ad free, seems those days could be over unless this is just an anomaly. This is the first time I've seen an ad on an artic so im not sure if other are wrapped as well.

There are a few artics that have advertising on it. 0615, one of the 900s and a couple of the 1400s have it on the driver side of the trailer section.

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6 hours ago, TTC 9701 said:

They were suppose to be ad free? I'm pretty sure all their buses are available for advertising.

When the new paint scheme was introduced on the artics back in early 2007, it was part of the express route rebranding. It was decided not to put any advertising on them at the time. This policy has remained in place since that time even though the fleet expanded and artics are used on all routes, not just express.

The advertising company has asked for many years to wrap an artic or put ads on it. HSR has declined but finally recently gave in. I just hope that they do not do all the buses as I still like seeing a few ad free vehicles.

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2 hours ago, Seashore_518203 said:

The advertising company has asked for many years to wrap an artic or put ads on it. HSR has declined but finally recently gave in. I just hope that they do not do all the buses as I still like seeing a few ad free vehicles.

Maybe they can do a neater job of it. 1426, for example, has an ad that partially covers the HSR logo. It just looks sloppy. Either leave the logo exposed or cover the whole thing. 

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