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Hamilton Street Railway

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how much are the new busses worth?

If I remember correctly, most 40ft hybrids go for about $$700 000 each. That is compared to $$500 000 each for diesels.

NFI have just added an extra 7" to accomendate the powerpack since last year. Not just HSR, other systems ordered Hybrid have 7" as well.

No, cause it's not in service yet.

It will most likely written "Powered by Electric Hybrid" on the battery pack cover much like the CNG buses, nothing fancy.

Edmonton has the extra 7" too. What is the 'power pack' for, if the batteries are on the roof??

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If I remember correctly, most 40ft hybrids go for about $$700 000 each. That is compared to $$500 000 each for diesels.

Edmonton's Orion VII's came in at $700 000. The New Flyer's were $750 000 (Allison drive), and $800 000 (ISE drive, which I suspect/hope might have the capacitor bank to store power, rather than batteries).

The various reports for ETS's recent bus purchases (2007 D40LFR's) have prices of around $400 000 per bus.

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Edmonton's Orion VII's came in at $700 000. The New Flyer's were $750 000 (Allison drive), and $800 000 (ISE drive, which I suspect/hope might have the capacitor bank to store power, rather than batteries).

The various reports for ETS's recent bus purchases (2007 D40LFR's) have prices of around $400 000 per bus.

The NFIs were more expensive? Probably because it was a small order.

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The NFIs were more expensive? Probably because it was a small order.

ETS bought 2 Orion's and 4 New Flyers. Orion was the smaller order.

Although, the reality is they are essentially 3 orders of 2 buses each.

Likely the Orion's were cheaper because they were added onto the TTC order, apparently. They also use lead acid batteries that are cheaper.

The NFI's with the Allison drive may or may not be more expensive overall. It seems to me the Allison system would be move expensive as you have a larger engine, transmission like device, electric motor and battery system, where as the Orion VII only has a smaller engine, electric motor, and battery system. ETS's also have the low profile battery enclosure on the roof that we apparently paid extra for. The Orion VII had no hight issues for use in Edmonton so didn't need anything redesigned. The Allison system also uses the more expensive NIMH batteries.

The NFI's with the ISE drive... Again, not entirely sure why they are the most expensive, but I do wonder if it's because of the engery storage device that could be used in them... if ETS is try the capacitors. Also, I can't think of any NFI/ ISE buses in Canada off hand.

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ETS bought 2 Orion's and 4 New Flyers. Orion was the smaller order.

Although, the reality is they are essentially 3 orders of 2 buses each.

Likely the Orion's were cheaper because they were added onto the TTC order, apparently. They also use lead acid batteries that are cheaper.

The NFI's with the Allison drive may or may not be more expensive overall. It seems to me the Allison system would be move expensive as you have a larger engine, transmission like device, electric motor and battery system, where as the Orion VII only has a smaller engine, electric motor, and battery system. ETS's also have the low profile battery enclosure on the roof that we apparently paid extra for. The Orion VII had no hight issues for use in Edmonton so didn't need anything redesigned. The Allison system also uses the more expensive NIMH batteries.

The NFI's with the ISE drive... Again, not entirely sure why they are the most expensive, but I do wonder if it's because of the engery storage device that could be used in them... if ETS is try the capacitors. Also, I can't think of any NFI/ ISE buses in Canada off hand.

Thanks for the info. It makes sense that ETS had to pay for the low profile roof box, and I assume that the systems on board the NFIs are alittle more expensive. I brought up the point because NFI has historically been mostly cheaper than other companies, but I could be wrong.

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Thanks for the info. It makes sense that ETS had to pay for the low profile roof box

No, it doesn't. I think the hybrids with the shortened CNG tanks as a housing look stupid. New Flyer should have spent a few extra dollars to begin with and designed something nicer looking and shorter in height.

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It makes sense that ETS had to pay for the low profile roof box, and I assume that the systems on board the NFIs are alittle more expensive.

It might make sense if the lower profile roof box is exclusive to ETS, but if NFI is going to start offering that elsewhere on other hybrids, NFI should pay for it. Why should ETS have to pay for NFI's bus design costs just because they were the first to get that design?

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It might make sense if the lower profile roof box is exclusive to ETS, but if NFI is going to start offering that elsewhere on other hybrids, NFI should pay for it. Why should ETS have to pay for NFI's bus design costs just because they were the first to get that design?

I wouldn't know.

Would this be the same issue with the HSR? Did they (after all, it's HSR's new buses here that the topic's about, not Edmonton's)...Did they pay for the cost of the new design or was it covered by NFI?

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I wouldn't know.

Would this be the same issue with the HSR? Did they (after all, it's HSR's new buses here that the topic's about, not Edmonton's)...Did they pay for the cost of the new design or was it covered by NFI?

HSR's Hybrids have the CNG tank housing, not the low-profile design...

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No, it doesn't. I think the hybrids with the shortened CNG tanks as a housing look stupid. New Flyer should have spent a few extra dollars to begin with and designed something nicer looking and shorter in height.

Actually, I think the NFI with the shortened CNG tank looks pretty good, although the low profile tank looks better. Plus, you also have to take from a corperate stand point. Its probably cheaper for NFI to use the CNG style tank, so they use it.

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Actually, I think the NFI with the shortened CNG tank looks pretty good, although the low profile tank looks better. Plus, you also have to take from a corperate stand point. Its probably cheaper for NFI to use the CNG style tank, so they use it.

How would it be chepaer for NFI to use the shortened CNG style tank? Assuming both styles (low profile/CNG style) are avaliable for use, it would cost the same to use either, I don't see how one would be more expensive then the other to use.

Yes it probably cost money to design the low profile battery case, but that cost is for development and doesn't have anything to do with actually using it.

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How would it be chepaer for NFI to use the shortened CNG style tank? Assuming both styles (low profile/CNG style) are avaliable for use, it would cost the same to use either, I don't see how one would be more expensive then the other to use.

Yes it probably cost money to design the low profile battery case, but that cost is for development and doesn't have anything to do with actually using it.

Actually, because the dimension of the current hybrid pod, and the CNG pod are close (all except for length), then the tooling of the assembly lines at the company that produces the pods can be the same. The new pod uses no similar dimensions (except for width), therefore new tooling is required. New tooling means additional costs for the new pod, which is probably why it hasnt become standard, as HSR's hybrids came with the old pod.

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Actually, because the dimension of the current hybrid pod, and the CNG pod are close (all except for length), then the tooling of the assembly lines at the company that produces the pods can be the same. The new pod uses no similar dimensions (except for width), therefore new tooling is required. New tooling means additional costs for the new pod, which is probably why it hasnt become standard, as HSR's hybrids came with the old pod.

As we have already established, I think, that any tooling for the new battery housing has been presumably been produced. I find it hard to imagine New Flyer went out and built 4 battery housings completely from scratch just for 4 Edmonton buses. New Flyer I'm sure if the one who produces both the CNG tank/ battery enclousure, and the low profile battery housing. They build the rest of the bus body, after all.

As Kevin notes, designing the low profile housing would have cost money, but that should have little effect on the cost of the actual. The development was a one time cost. For all we know, it's actually cheaper to produce that low profile housing.

Why isn't anyone else getting it yet/ Edmonton's might well be more or less a test to make sure they can stand up to actual use or what not.

Hell, Edmonton's more or less a testing ground for hybrids right now. New Flyer and Orion should be paying Edmonton to test their buses in our climate, and with new features.

That hydrogen bus that ISE was involved in designing ran in Winnipeg for a few months during winter for testing. I believe Winnipeg Transit didn't pay anything for it's use.

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As we have already established, I think, that any tooling for the new battery housing has been presumably been produced. I find it hard to imagine New Flyer went out and built 4 battery housings completely from scratch just for 4 Edmonton buses. New Flyer I'm sure if the one who produces both the CNG tank/ battery enclousure, and the low profile battery housing. They build the rest of the bus body, after all.

As Kevin notes, designing the low profile housing would have cost money, but that should have little effect on the cost of the actual. The development was a one time cost. For all we know, it's actually cheaper to produce that low profile housing.

Why isn't anyone else getting it yet/ Edmonton's might well be more or less a test to make sure they can stand up to actual use or what not.

Hell, Edmonton's more or less a testing ground for hybrids right now. New Flyer and Orion should be paying Edmonton to test their buses in our climate, and with new features.

That hydrogen bus that ISE was involved in designing ran in Winnipeg for a few months during winter for testing. I believe Winnipeg Transit didn't pay anything for it's use.

Well, when you put it that way.... Anyways, you're probably right about why no one else is getting low profile. It'll probably become an option soon, or mabye even standard.

The only thing that would make the low profile pod cheaper to produce would be if it were only shorter in height. It is, but isnt it longer to accomodate the same amount of battery space? I cant really tell from the pics on various sights. I still say that the current standard design looks fine, and provides some continuity with NFI designs.

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Kevin, is there any update as far as the Press conference thing about the new buses, and is it going to be tomorrow or Tuesday?

I want to come down and see it, and the new buses, but need to be able to know what time I need to be in the city.

Thanks

Emily

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Kevin, is there any update as far as the Press conference thing about the new buses, and is it going to be tomorrow or Tuesday?

The press conference is on Tuesday, April 4th at 10:00 AM at Hamilton City Hall. There will be one 40' and one 60' hybrid bus present for the ceremonies.

As for entering revenue service, it might not happen until at least another week or two.

Kevin

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The press conference is on Tuesday, April 4th at 10:00 AM at Hamilton City Hall. There will be one 40' and one 60' hybrid bus present for the ceremonies.

As for entering revenue service, it might not happen until at least another week or two.

Kevin

Thanks VERY much Kevin.

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The press conference is on Tuesday, April 4th at 10:00 AM at Hamilton City Hall. There will be one 40' and one 60' hybrid bus present for the ceremonies.

As for entering revenue service, it might not happen until at least another week or two.

Kevin

there were 2 60 footers.. i got pics.. :)

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The press conference is on Tuesday, April 4th at 10:00 AM at Hamilton City Hall. There will be one 40' and one 60' hybrid bus present for the ceremonies.

As for entering revenue service, it might not happen until at least another week or two.

Kevin

You mean Wednesday April 4th or today Tuesday April 3rd?

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The press conference is on Tuesday, April 4th at 10:00 AM at Hamilton City Hall. There will be one 40' and one 60' hybrid bus present for the ceremonies.

As for entering revenue service, it might not happen until at least another week or two.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin for giving us the heads up!

You mean Wednesday April 4th or today Tuesday April 3rd?

April 4th is a Teusday.

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Thanks Kevin for giving us the heads up!

April 4th is a Teusday.

Today was Tuesday, April 3. Tomorrow will be Wednesday, April 4.

Based on nfl hybrid's claim of there being two 60 footers and he got photos, I would say the press conference was today.

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Today was Tuesday, April 3. Tomorrow will be Wednesday, April 4.

Based on nfl hybrid's claim of there being two 60 footers and he got photos, I would say the press conference was today.

My mistake, yep, is indeed Teusday, April 3, 2007. I guess my computer is ahead a day :) . Yeah the ress conference was today.

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I was planning on getting down there this morning but ended up getting caught up in other things. I was around City Hall during the noon-hour, whlle on my way to my computer course. They may have still be there at that time but they weren't. Did see CH camera crews so I thought that they were there. Might as well wait until tonight's news on CH at 6.

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