Hamilton Street Railway

[newflyerinvero]

I'd be more more curious how this would impact the major system review as, it was brought together under the premise of being ready for light rail.

[Shaun]

I feel that they just cancelled it and swept it under the rug. Not giving a care in the world to be accountable.

I dont think they did their due diligence to come up with a solution.  Why not build it in stages? Why not outsource it to the private sector and lease it back for 30 years? Come to the table with all parties and have a discussion rather than just cancel it. Good luck getting Hamilton votes in the next election.

[lip]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:24 AM, Shaun said:

I feel that they just cancelled it and swept it under the rug. Not giving a care in the world to be accountable.

I dont think they did their due diligence to come up with a solution.  Why not build it in stages? Why not outsource it to the private sector and lease it back for 30 years? Come to the table with all parties and have a discussion rather than just cancel it. Good luck getting Hamilton votes in the next election.

Because Ford is a clown and doesnt have common sense? Do you think that thought even came to his mind?

He couldn't care less about Hamilton's votes, clearly evidence by cancelling the LRT for not one solid reason. In fact, the reason he probably cancelled it is because Hamilton didnt vote for him, that's how petty the clown is.

[Wayside Observer]

On December 18, 2019 at 11:24 AM, Shaun said:

I feel that they just cancelled it and swept it under the rug. Not giving a care in the world to be accountable.

I dont think they did their due diligence to come up with a solution.  Why not build it in stages? Why not outsource it to the private sector and lease it back for 30 years? Come to the table with all parties and have a discussion rather than just cancel it. Good luck getting Hamilton votes in the next election.

 

On December 19, 2019 at 9:42 PM, lip said:

Because Ford is a clown and doesnt have common sense? Do you think that thought even came to his mind?

He couldn't care less about Hamilton's votes, clearly evidence by cancelling the LRT for not one solid reason. In fact, the reason he probably cancelled it is because Hamilton didnt vote for him, that's how petty the clown is.

Pretty much.  Politicians love to campaign on these accountability platforms but they sure don't practice it when they get into office.

Anyways, the Hamilton LRT like the other Metrolinx LRTs is outsourced to the private sector, or would have been.  That was the whole crux of the Design, Build, Operate, Finance and Maintain (DBFOM) contracts they were tendering for each of the LRT projects including Hamilton.  That's also where the 30 year timescale comes from for all the maintenance and operation costs they packed in to the build price to justify cancellation.  30 years worth over the 30 year life of the DBFOM contract that they would've been paying the LRT off over.

I agree, I've been saying ever since the news dropped that sitting down with the three consortiums preparing bids once the bid packages are ready in March along with the city and federal government and figure out how to do it.  That's what would take place if there was a genuine desire to get it done.  Except there isn't a genuine desire to get it done.  There's a genuine desire to cancel it.  There's a genuine desire to punish Hamilton for traditionally voting NDP.  There's a genuine desire to send a message to the rest of Ontario that this is what happens when you don't vote correctly.

Plus, there's the whole general Ontario mediocre, puritan tightwad don't spend any money because we don't want to spend any money to have nice things make do with what you have, don't get any ideas above your station and don't question the government or you're getting a lump of coal on Wednesday aspect to things.  I poked some serious fun at that whole mindset over on the General Lounge when I posted an Archives of Ontario video showing how the government of Ontario says you should barbecue a chicken vs. how I do it.  That video really captures how bland, boring, crappy, mediocre, backwards etc. this province is.  It's Ontario in a nutshell: the worlds blandest barbecue chicken.  Stuck in 1961 in perpetuity.

Bottom line, if you want your LRT to be built.  If you want it to open.  If you want it to be up and running carrying passengers, you need to look at places like Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo.  Both are forward thinking tech hubs.  Both did it with no Metrolinx and minimal government of Ontario involvement beyond chipping in some money and allowing a car purchase to be tacked on in the case of K-W.  But you do not entrust it to the government of Ontario and its agency Metrolinx both of which are having trouble grappling with the idea that the 1950s ended sixty years ago ten days from now.

So I met up with a friend of mine who teaches at Niagara College in East Hamilton a few days ago and I took a look at the new Go station going in on Centennial Parkway and then drove up to Eastgate Square, made a right on Queenston and drove part of the kiboshed LRT line.  You can see the CHCH transmission tower from that part of Hamilton since it's up the road on Centennial on top of the escarpment and I thought to myself, this place is so backwards, there's probably still angry guys yelling at their kids to this day to move the rabbit ears around to get the snow out of the picture when they're tuning it in.

As for voting intentions, I'm sure Doug Ford picked up some votes among the loudest anti-LRT contingent but I'm also equally sure he's cemented a lot of people's decisions not to vote conservative after seeing this go up in smoke.  I'm also sure he's lost the endorsement of the construction workers' union whose members won't be getting work building this thing and whose pension fund saw the value of their investments in downtown Hamilton real estate development along the line get a nice haircut overnight.

[Shaun]

39 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

 

Pretty much.  Politicians love to campaign on these accountability platforms but they sure don't practice it when they get into office.

Anyways, the Hamilton LRT like the other Metrolinx LRTs is outsourced to the private sector, or would have been.  That was the whole crux of the Design, Build, Operate, Finance and Maintain (DBFOM) contracts they were tendering for each of the LRT projects including Hamilton.  That's also where the 30 year timescale comes from for all the maintenance and operation costs they packed in to the build price to justify cancellation.  30 years worth over the 30 year life of the DBFOM contract that they would've been paying the LRT off over.

I agree, I've been saying ever since the news dropped that sitting down with the three consortiums preparing bids once the bid packages are ready in March along with the city and federal government and figure out how to do it.  That's what would take place if there was a genuine desire to get it done.  Except there isn't a genuine desire to get it done.  There's a genuine desire to cancel it.  There's a genuine desire to punish Hamilton for traditionally voting NDP.  There's a genuine desire to send a message to the rest of Ontario that this is what happens when you don't vote correctly.

Plus, there's the whole general Ontario mediocre, puritan tightwad don't spend any money because we don't want to spend any money to have nice things make do with what you have, don't get any ideas above your station and don't question the government or you're getting a lump of coal on Wednesday aspect to things.  I poked some serious fun at that whole mindset over on the General Lounge when I posted an Archives of Ontario video showing how the government of Ontario says you should barbecue a chicken vs. how I do it.  That video really captures how bland, boring, crappy, mediocre, backwards etc. this province is.  It's Ontario in a nutshell: the worlds blandest barbecue chicken.  Stuck in 1961 in perpetuity.

Bottom line, if you want your LRT to be built.  If you want it to open.  If you want it to be up and running carrying passengers, you need to look at places like Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo.  Both are forward thinking tech hubs.  Both did it with no Metrolinx and minimal government of Ontario involvement beyond chipping in some money and allowing a car purchase to be tacked on in the case of K-W.  But you do not entrust it to the government of Ontario and its agency Metrolinx both of which are having trouble grappling with the idea that the 1950s ended sixty years ago ten days from now.

So I met up with a friend of mine who teaches at Niagara College in East Hamilton a few days ago and I took a look at the new Go station going in on Centennial Parkway and then drove up to Eastgate Square, made a right on Queenston and drove part of the kiboshed LRT line.  You can see the CHCH transmission tower from that part of Hamilton since it's up the road on Centennial on top of the escarpment and I thought to myself, this place is so backwards, there's probably still angry guys yelling at their kids to this day to move the rabbit ears around to get the snow out of the picture when they're tuning it in.

As for voting intentions, I'm sure Doug Ford picked up some votes among the loudest anti-LRT contingent but I'm also equally sure he's cemented a lot of people's decisions not to vote conservative after seeing this go up in smoke.  I'm also sure he's lost the endorsement of the construction workers' union whose members won't be getting work building this thing and whose pension fund saw the value of their investments in downtown Hamilton real estate development along the line get a nice haircut overnight.

The city could still partner with the feds and figure out a way to make it work by working with the private sector.  

The sad part is the Douggie Ford might win another mandate considering the liberals still don't have a candidate to replace Wynne. 

2 years after they lost the election, I'm not sure what their plan is.  

[Wayside Observer]

8 minutes ago, Shaun said:

The city could still partner with the feds and figure out a way to make it work by working with the private sector.  

The sad part is the Douggie Ford might win another mandate considering the liberals still don't have a candidate to replace Wynne. 

2 years after they lost the election, I'm not sure what their plan is.  

Bob Bratina’s already on record as saying the cancellation was inevitable so what federal support the Hamilton LRT has won’t be coming from him.  The eastern part of the line would run through his riding too so this is disappointing to hear from him.

I don’t know what the three bidders plan to do.  Infrastructure Ontario is going to pay them out for the work they’ve done.  Here’s where it gets tricky, the bids have to be almost finished since they were to be delivered in March.  That’s not far away and from a doing work on it perspective, even closer when you factor in the dead time over the holidays when people are on vacation and nothing’s getting done. The bidders might want to consider eating cost of completing their bid packages in case the LRT is reinstated so they’re ready to go to submission immediately.  However, and I don’t put it past the government to be this spiteful, if there are conditions on getting paid out by Infrastructure Ontario that require the already completed work to be destroyed or not be used in any subsequent LRT bid packages, that ideas out the window and it’s totally back to square one.

I totally agree about the possibility of Doug Ford getting re-elected.  I figure, unless the liberals shape up mighty fast, we’re looking at a second Ford mandate or maybe an NDP government depending how good or bad things go for the province as a whole over the next two years.

[Shaun]

4 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Bob Bratina’s already on record as saying the cancellation was inevitable so what federal support the Hamilton LRT has won’t be coming from him.  The eastern part of the line would run through his riding too so this is disappointing to hear from him.

I don’t know what the three bidders plan to do.  Infrastructure Ontario is going to pay them out for the work they’ve done.  Here’s where it gets tricky, the bids have to be almost finished since they were to be delivered in March.  That’s not far away and from a doing work on it perspective, even closer when you factor in the dead time over the holidays when people are on vacation and nothing’s getting done. The bidders might want to consider eating cost of completing their bid packages in case the LRT is reinstated so they’re ready to go to submission immediately.  However, and I don’t put it past the government to be this spiteful, if there are conditions on getting paid out by Infrastructure Ontario that require the already completed work to be destroyed or not be used in any subsequent LRT bid packages, that ideas out the window and it’s totally back to square one.

I totally agree about the possibility of Doug Ford getting re-elected.  I figure, unless the liberals shape up mighty fast, we’re looking at a second Ford mandate or maybe an NDP government depending how good or bad things go for the province as a whole over the next two years.

Fat chance with the NDP getting a mandate in Ontario, only happened once. 

[Wayside Observer]

On 12/22/2019 at 3:19 PM, Shaun said:

Fat chance with the NDP getting a mandate in Ontario, only happened once. 

Normally I would agree but with the Liberals seemingly out of action for the foreseeable future, a lot of people are going to have to confront the question about which of the NDP or more Ford is worse than the other.

[TransferCutter]

Contract deal accepted by drivers

http://www.hamilton-today.com/transit/atu-members-approve-new-deal-between-union-and-city-of-hamilton-hamont/

[Orion6025]

1827 is at some vendor along the QEW (I imagine it has something to do with the engine, since a benz logo was one of numerous on the building)

[Hamilton]

In this years (2020) HSR budget.

Renaming the MacNab Terminal $37,000

Replace the existing signage at the MacNab Terminal with signage that reads the "Frank Cooke Transit Terminal".

[Wonka]

Damn near all of my yearly salary to replace some damn signs. How ridiculous.

[TransferCutter]

Who was Frank Cooke?

 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/5662450-former-hsr-general-manager-frank-cooke-dies-at-100/

[43 Kennedy]

2 minutes ago, TransferCutter said:

Excuse my ignorance, but who was Frank Cooke?

Former head of HSR, and transit advocate.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/headlines/hamilton-will-likely-rename-main-transit-terminal-after-frank-cooke-1.3212769

[Chris W]

1 minute ago, TransferCutter said:

Excuse my ignorance, but who was Frank Cooke?

Frank Cooke was the former manager of the Hamilton Street Railway. He lived to be 100 years of age. A good man.

[lip]

They should put that money into constructing an actual proper Downtown Bus Terminal, not some glorified long bus platforms with shelters. The MacNab Bus Terminal is by far and away the most embarrassing "terminal" in the GTAH.

[G.A]

1 minute ago, lip said:

They should put that money into constructing an actual proper Downtown Bus Terminal, not some glorified long bus platforms with shelters. The MacNab Bus Terminal is by far and away the most embarrassing "terminal" in the GTAH.

University of Guelph has a pretty bad terminal as well. A 5 minute walk from one platform to the other end.

[AmanKh]

Apologies for the crappy pictures in advance. Don't know if this is news or not, but 0520 was spotted on the 25/26 today, and Transit55 shows it was in service yesterday as well on the 27/35. I thought that this series of buses was retired for good, unless I'm missing something here.

[lip]

9 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

I raise Pickering Parkway Terminal.

Very true that "terminal" is another pathetic example of a terminus as well. Luckily for Pickering, its population isnt 500K+.

[TTC Guy]

10 hours ago, AmanKh said:

Apologies for the crappy pictures in advance. Don't know if this is news or not, but 0520 was spotted on the 25/26 today, and Transit55 shows it was in service yesterday as well on the 27/35. I thought that this series of buses was retired for good, unless I'm missing something here.

Check the Wiki, If a vehicle is retired then it will date it, 0520 is the last one of its series in service for this particular bus. PS. This is all information that I got from the Wiki. Plus, if you rode on it then chances are it’s not retired. 

[Seashore_518203]

12 hours ago, AmanKh said:

Apologies for the crappy pictures in advance. Don't know if this is news or not, but 0520 was spotted on the 25/26 today, and Transit55 shows it was in service yesterday as well on the 27/35. I thought that this series of buses was retired for good, unless I'm missing something here.

Bus 0520 has been put back into service to replace 0913 which had a "thermal incident" at the end of November. It has actually been in service for about 2 weeks and was tracking as 0913. This was corrected as of yesterday and it is tracking as 0520.

This is actually the third time that this bus has been brought back from retirement.

[smallspy]

18 hours ago, lip said:

They should put that money into constructing an actual proper Downtown Bus Terminal, not some glorified long bus platforms with shelters.

Because $37K is really going to go a long way towards accomplishing that....

Dan

[lip]

5 hours ago, smallspy said:

Because $37K is really going to go a long way towards accomplishing that....

Dan

Put it in the bank and let it grow some interest

But in al seriousness the City of Hamilton has wasted enough money with the glorified bus shelters downtown. They need to come up with plan to build a proper bus terminal for the downtown core. The current half-baked solution they've come up with isnt helping anything.

[Bravo Actual]

Something i've been thinking about since news about the LRT cancellation, is what comes next? Has anyone thought about a potential Trollybus BRT following the planned route of the former LRT project? Certainly would be less money than an LRT job. Still has overhead wires. Done right, it could work well enough along the B line express. 

 

Just a thought. I'm not an expert so tell me what cons this has. I know the city will never go for it, but still.

 

[Seashore_518203]

13 hours ago, lip said:

But in al seriousness the City of Hamilton has wasted enough money with the glorified bus shelters downtown. They need to come up with plan to build a proper bus terminal for the downtown core. The current half-baked solution they've come up with isnt helping anything.

The current situation is not all that bad. Granted it is not perfect, but it does allow access for all customers to the main commercial centres of downtown Hamilton. I can think of numerous examples in the US of brand new downtown transit terminals that are on the outskirts of downtown and are not convenient at all for customers. Prime real estate downtown is costly and you are unlikely to get a large enough area at a reasonable price to build a transit terminal for all routes.

For example, say that the only good parcel of land is the Good Shepherd Centre at Cannon/Mary (former car dealership). You could build a great terminal there but it would be too far from the main downtown area.