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Orion VIII

King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

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On 8/30/2018 at 11:04 PM, Atomic Taco said:

Not all the new Gilligs will be green.  Can't make out the number but 74xx is blue/purple (I can't tell the difference).

Also, 6240-6241 exist, though I don't see what order these are part of on the wiki.  They look pretty much the same as any of the other RapidRide coaches.

On 9/13/2018 at 5:39 PM, coordinator47 said:

6220 - 6241 exist.  There is an order shown on the New Flyer Production List published last March by the Motor Bus Society for XDE60s 8300 - 8321.  I assume that this order for standard coaches was converted to RapidRide specifications.  The vehicle manuals haven't been posted to the Vehicle Maintenance website yet.

The wiki was based off this.

6219+16 gets us to 6235.

Unless Metro changed the numbering of 6300s and just continued where 6235 left off. 6235+34 get us to 6269. Which would account for 6240 and 6241.

However the chart does not account for 1252 either. Does anyone have any info on 1252 or the other electric demos from that are supposed to run from South Base? 

metro fleet.png

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9 hours ago, roamer said:

...and don't forget that taper at the rear.  I always thought our SG-310s appeared narrower because of that and surprisingly, even felt narrower when driving; a psychological anomaly I suppose and I also consistently sensed that the 2000s had much more nimble handling compared to the1400s that just were more cumbersome to drive --or so it seemed to me.

If I recall correctly, weren't the SG-310s tuned to city speeds compared to the fully capable SG-220 coaches?

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10 hours ago, anonymous guy said:

If I recall correctly, weren't the SG-310s tuned to city speeds compared to the fully capable SG-220 coaches?

Hah yeah, I remember when the 1400s were new, many of us were being called into the office and reprimanded as tachographs were being used for the first time where they could pull the circular chart to see the speed the coach was traveling and at what time.  I got called in and was shown the tachograph reading where it indicated I was going 82 MPH at one point while deadheading up to Everett early one morning.  The chart showed it was just one short spike so I didn't dispute it as I could have very well been going that fast for a short distance as they were a very smooth riding coach and like an expensive passenger vehicle, one sometimes doesn't realize going that fast unless paying close attention to the speedometer.  

The chief was an old school STS assistant stationmaster so I thought I'd be given the full sentence as the tachograph still indicated I was exceeding the speed limit much of the time but I remember him just laughing and telling me to "hey, just watch your speed with these things" and let me off with a warning.

And yes, the 2000s' top speed was between 55-60 MPH and were geared differently than the 1400s.  

Anecdotally, there was not much resistance among operators driving the 2000s on the freeway as many of us remembered the frustration of having to drive 200s (TDH-5105) on the freeway when they didn't do much over 45 MPH.  Seattle Transit didn't use 200s on freeway routes but when Metro took over, they didn't hesitate using 200s on routes that used the freeway because of the shortage of equipment during those early days. 

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2 hours ago, doglover44 said:

Aren't they getting new Gilligs ?

7300/7400 -series Gillig hybrids that look something like THIS should be going into service shortly.

(Low Floor HEV 40' (G27D102N4) - Cummins L9 - BAE Systems HybriDrive Series-E)

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3 hours ago, roamer said:

7300/7400 -series Gillig hybrids that look something like THIS should be going into service shortly.

(Low Floor HEV 40' (G27D102N4) - Cummins L9 - BAE Systems HybriDrive Series-E)

Those are nice ! Sorry to ask I'm a Gillig geek

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On 9/16/2018 at 11:09 AM, roamer said:

Hah yeah, I remember when the 1400s were new, many of us were being called into the office and reprimanded as tachographs were being used for the first time where they could pull the circular chart to see the speed the coach was traveling and at what time.  I got called in and was shown the tachograph reading where it indicated I was going 82 MPH at one point while deadheading up to Everett early one morning.  The chart showed it was just one short spike so I didn't dispute it as I could have very well been going that fast for a short distance as they were a very smooth riding coach and like an expensive passenger vehicle, one sometimes doesn't realize going that fast unless paying close attention to the speedometer.  

The chief was an old school STS assistant stationmaster so I thought I'd be given the full sentence as the tachograph still indicated I was exceeding the speed limit much of the time but I remember him just laughing and telling me to "hey, just watch your speed with these things" and let me off with a warning.

And yes, the 2000s' top speed was between 55-60 MPH and were geared differently than the 1400s.  

Anecdotally, there was not much resistance among operators driving the 2000s on the freeway as many of us remembered the frustration of having to drive 200s (TDH-5105) on the freeway when they didn't do much over 45 MPH.  Seattle Transit didn't use 200s on freeway routes but when Metro took over, they didn't hesitate using 200s on routes that used the freeway because of the shortage of equipment during those early days. 

It's interesting that the widely ignored 55mph speed limit was in place starting in 1974 - long before the 1400s were spec'd out. 

The 2000s and 3000s were geared to top out at 57mph. I've heard the thinking was that you'd get the extra 2 mph to get around someone going exactly the speed limit. I don't recall the 57mph 2000s being horribly slow with everyone passing them when they were on the freeway, even after the 55mph speed limit was repealed in the mid 1990s. 

As I've mentioned here before, the last shakeup of the 1400s (Feb 99), all the 1400s were supposed to be retired by the start of the shakeup. It took a lot longer to get the 2300s in service than planned (none were in service at the start of the shakeup) and so a rider alert went out noting that while all trips were indicated as accessible on the timetable, specific trips on a list of routes would be non-accessible and either call the info line or look at the timetables on the *internet.* 

As a result of this, the runs had been re-cut assuming that all these routes would be accessible (typically the 1400s were contained to a set of routes they'd been on forever) and the runs were more efficient assuming that all the artics would be the same. Thus, when they designated those trips non-accessible, a lot of trippers ended up with 1400s on routes that hadn't seen them in a while. I regularly rode them their last shakeup on routes like 242, 268, 272, 276 and 340 that hadn't seen 1400s in forever.

There was one trip on the 340 that ran all the way from Aurora Village to Burien (I suspect it was the second trip on a Boeing Everett tripper) that I rode a few times in the AM. I can recall the operator, with a coach that do 75mph, on a schedule written for a 57mph bus, stopping and holding for a couple of minutes at every 405 freeway stop (time-point). 

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On 7/21/2018 at 5:08 PM, northwesterner said:

More 3000 memories ... 

  • Zack W used to comment that these coaches really were hamstrung by their three speed Renk transmission.

The Renk D874 transmission was a 4-speed; the first two gears were fluid-coupled.  On a 3000 first shift was at 11 MPH and second shift at 24MPH.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 7:13 PM, northwesterner said:

Bigger engine and a lower differential gearing on the SG-310s, as well as an updated drivers area (even before they were retrofitted in 1992) and different doors.

All Metro's MANs had an MAN D2566 engine.  The 2000s engine had an intercooler on it, boosting horsepower from 275 on a 1400 to 310.

Not all 1400s had high-speed gearing.  1420 - 22 were geared for only 51 MPH.  1423 - 24 were geared for 57 MPH, like the 2000s.

On 9/15/2018 at 2:21 PM, roamer said:

... and I also consistently sensed that the 2000s had much more nimble handling compared to the1400s that just were more cumbersome to drive --or so it seemed to me.

The 1400s had power-assisted steering and the 2000s had full power steering.

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The Proterras have been out of service since 9/10 and for another 3 - 4 weeks while new charging stations are constructed at Eastgate P&R.

I'm told that the 7300s won't go into service until issues with the operator stations are resolved.

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4 hours ago, coordinator47 said:

The Proterras have been out of service since 9/10 and for another 3 - 4 weeks while new charging stations are constructed at Eastgate P&R.

I'm told that the 7300s won't go into service until issues with the operator stations are resolved.

Is it known what the issues are? Seems like a lot of those buses are with Metro already.

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23 hours ago, Express691 said:

Quick Question:

DE60LF 2792 runs out of which base?
-Atlantic
-Central
-North

I had a hunch it wasn't atlantic, unless im wrong

Its on the 120 tonight, so there's a 95% chance it's Atlantic Base. There is a small chance it is a Central Base coach ... but that's a small chance.

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I found another bonanza: more county ordinances detailing historical service changes (the Metro website only lists changes as far back as 1999)

Sept 1998: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 13166.pdf

Sept 1996: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/Council/Clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 12269.pdf

On 12/31/2016 at 4:17 PM, northwesterner said:

Route 101, which was new at the time, replaced route 107 in the tunnel. 

101 replaced the 147 right? I haven't studied the evolution of the SE Seattle/Renton bus network in much depth but it looks like the 42 has gone through a lot of changes since 1973. Am I correct in saying that the areas of Lake MacDonald/Kennydale/East Renton Highlands formerly served by 106/107 (until 1998) and 147 (until 1996) are now transit deserts when the 111/114 aren't running? (Which is most of the day.)

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On 9/15/2018 at 10:16 PM, aznichiro115 said:

Unless Metro changed the numbering of 6300s and just continued where 6235 left off. 6235+34 get us to 6269. Which would account for 6240 and 6241.

However the chart does not account for 1252 either. Does anyone have any info on 1252 or the other electric demos from that are supposed to run from South Base? 

metro fleet.png

6225 is operating on the A line right now.  6222 is in Atlantic Yard.

1250 & 1251 are New Flyer XE60s.  1252 & 1253 are XE40s.  They are known to have tested on the Queen Anne counterbalance.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:37 PM, coordinator47 said:

I'm told that the 7300s won't go into service until issues with the operator stations are resolved.

 

The problem with the 7300s involves a mirror mounting.  I assume it is the center aisle mirror and supposedly operators are hitting their heads on it when getting in and out of the driver seat.  3 were at Bellevue Base on Wednesday and 3 more were supposed to be sent there this weekend, but Operations hasn't qualified anyone to drive them yet.

Edited by coordinator47

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16 hours ago, coordinator47 said:

6225 is operating on the A line right now.  6222 is in Atlantic Yard.

1250 & 1251 are New Flyer XE60s.  1252 & 1253 are XE40s.  They are known to have tested on the Queen Anne counterbalance.

The problem with the 7300s involves a mirror mounting.  I assume it is the center aisle mirror and supposedly operators are hitting their heads on it when getting in and out of the driver seat.  3 were at Bellevue Base on Wednesday and 3 more were supposed to be sent there this weekend, but Operations hasn't qualified anyone to drive them yet.

"but Operations hasn't qualified anyone to drive them yet."

Actually they have.  4 people were qualified on Wednesday, and there was a sign up for 12 more for Friday.

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:19 AM, northwesterner said:

I'm not the retired operator here; that's Roamer (and probably a few lurkers). 

The routes that were busy in the 1980s and 1990s are pretty much the same ones that are busy today (or same corridors).

As I mentioned, there were few routes that had 100% artics assigned all day, but many many routes saw a number of runs with artics interspersed with 40ft equipment. 

Some routes were 100% artic, including the 6/359 (later 358), the 5/54/55 (at least the day base runs), the 174 (which was out of south base), etc. But for the most part, equipment was mixed on most routes.

Trolley weekend dieselization was much less frequent, but yes, the 2000s were used on the 7 and 43/44 when that occurred. 

Bredas were used as trolley replacements also on 7 and 43 / 44 which allowed some of us former bus operators to use electric mode outside of downtown (ssshhhh! don't tell anyone! Why operate in diesel when you have trolley equipment?)

Bredas were also used at South Base for M.A.N. 2000 replacements when there were not enough of them on Sundays when the DSTT was closed - but Bredas had a smaller fuel tank and a low fuel warning light that started very early in my shift. I had to be towed home after running out of fuel climbing SR 18 up Peasley Canyon on the base route home from SE Auburn on RT150s. (three times as I recall). Too many miles in a day!

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On 9/21/2018 at 3:55 PM, V3112 said:

I found another bonanza: more county ordinances detailing historical service changes (the Metro website only lists changes as far back as 1999)

Sept 1998: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/council/clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 13166.pdf

Sept 1996: https://aqua.kingcounty.gov/Council/Clerk/OldOrdsMotions/Ordinance 12269.pdf

101 replaced the 147 right? I haven't studied the evolution of the SE Seattle/Renton bus network in much depth but it looks like the 42 has gone through a lot of changes since 1973. Am I correct in saying that the areas of Lake MacDonald/Kennydale/East Renton Highlands formerly served by 106/107 (until 1998) and 147 (until 1996) are now transit deserts when the 111/114 aren't running? (Which is most of the day.)

Don't forget the 110 weekday base serving Lake Kathleen which used I5 and Martin Luther King Way South (SR900) into Renton which made the 101 the "Renton Rocket" when it was introduced.

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On 9/23/2018 at 2:34 AM, Tinkerin said:

Don't forget the 110 weekday base serving Lake Kathleen which used I5 and Martin Luther King Way South (SR900) into Renton which made the 101 the "Renton Rocket" when it was introduced.

Yeah apparently there was quite a bit of bus service to Lake MacDonald/Highlands/Fairwood/Kennydale 20 years ago. Nowadays that part of the county is an affluent area of mostly detached single family homes, so I guess bus service was shifted to higher-demand areas.

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On 9/23/2018 at 1:58 AM, Tinkerin said:

Bredas were used as trolley replacements also on 7 and 43 / 44 which allowed some of us former bus operators to use electric mode outside of downtown (ssshhhh! don't tell anyone! Why operate in diesel when you have trolley equipment?)

Bredas were also used at South Base for M.A.N. 2000 replacements when there were not enough of them on Sundays when the DSTT was closed - but Bredas had a smaller fuel tank and a low fuel warning light that started very early in my shift. I had to be towed home after running out of fuel climbing SR 18 up Peasley Canyon on the base route home from SE Auburn on RT150s. (three times as I recall). Too many miles in a day!

So not only were they heavy, cantankerous, and sluggish in diesel mode - they would also run dry on the operators?

My deepest sympathies 

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59 minutes ago, aznichiro115 said:

Looks like some routes have switched bases for this shake up.

 

77 NB > CB

114 BB > CB

309 NB > CB

355 CB > NB

Attached is this shakeup's Route/Base cross-reference list and here is the one from last shakeup for all your comparison needs.

Only one you missed was 114 moving from Bellevue to Central

Fall 2018 Route-Base Cross Reference List.pdf

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10 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

Attached is this shakeup's Route/Base cross-reference list and here is the one from last shakeup for all your comparison needs.

Only one you missed was 114 moving from Bellevue to Central

Fall 2018 Route-Base Cross Reference List.pdf

Thanks for the info!

After browsing it, a few questions:

Is any base "100% artic"? Looks like East is pretty close -- and that would make sense, especially if Bellevue is "artic-free"...

I confess, I can't quite figure out the Atlantic vs Central distinction. Seeing 120 listed as an Atlantic route really threw me. Does Atlantic have its own set of diesel/hybrid buses? I thought (perhaps wrongly) that Atlantic drew its non-trolley fleet from Central -- particularly on weekends. If that's the case, why isn't 120 simply a Central route? Any clarification appreciated -- feel free to set me straight!

 

 

 

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H/T to @Express691 and @aznichiro115 for watching the tracker; 7302, 7303, and 7305 have hit the streets in the last two days.  I only noticed the latter two this afternoon, both on route 271.  Managed to snag a few exterior pics:

 

King County Metro Gillig Low Floor 40' HEV King County Metro Gillig Low Floor 40' HEV King County Metro Gillig Low Floor 40' HEV King County Metro Gillig Low Floor 40' HEV

 

King County Metro Gillig Low Floor 40' HEV

 

Edited by Atomic Taco
Fix numbers
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