Jump to content
Orion VIII

King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

Recommended Posts

Just spotted 8162 on the 216 and 8163 on the 219 this evening. More of these are seeming to pop into East Base now, and for some reason 8103 somehow appeared on a 271 on a PM run recently, but then went back to South. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Metro6774 said:

Just spotted 8162 on the 216 and 8163 on the 219 this evening. More of these are seeming to pop into East Base now, and for some reason 8103 somehow appeared on a 271 on a PM run recently, but then went back to South. 

Oh yeah a couple of Saturdays ago a friend of mine I knew from school said he spotted a South DE60LFR (6954) doing the last Saturday Night Eastbound 271, I will ask him if I can use the photo he sent me if you want more proof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spotted the former KC Metro MAN Americana and Gillig Phantom coaches doing street barricade duty for the Seattle PD during the Holiday Westlake festivities.

Haven't seen the former Community Transit RTS  coach as a street barricade in some time. Did the SPD scrap that coach after purchasing the Gillig from Metro?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just spotted something unusual--RapidRide 6032 on the 219 and 6030 on the 212.

This could be a clear indication that East is in need of more 8100's, especially since the 255 only uses the 6800's and 6900's.

Now East currently has 4 XDE60's from what I've seen: 8153, 8160, 8162 and 8163. From what I remember, East is getting 55 of these.

Edited by Metro6774

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, anonymous guy said:

Spotted the former KC Metro MAN Americana and Gillig Phantom coaches doing street barricade duty for the Seattle PD during the Holiday Westlake festivities.

Haven't seen the former Community Transit RTS  coach as a street barricade in some time. Did the SPD scrap that coach after purchasing the Gillig from Metro?

It appears they got rid of the RTS but I'm not sure exactly when it was.

I did a search of the city's "Active Fleet Complement" (HERE) and it no longer seems to show the RTS.  I did a manual page-by-page perusal and also a search using "bus" and that shows the 2 Gillig Phantoms and 2 MANN [sic] coaches.  I took a screen shot and it's attached.  

Active Fleet Complement   Fleet Management   seattle.gov.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Flyer 8100s start arriving at East in November
East Base will start seeing 8100s arrive. The new 8100s at East will push 6800s from East over to North Base, so that North can begin retiring their fleet of 2300s, and eventually some 2600s.
New 4600 Proterra fleet to Bellevue base in March/June 2018
8 new Proterra coaches should arrive during the first half of 2018. Needed charging infrastructure at Bellevue Base and Eastgate P&R that should be in place in the June 2018 timeframe, which will allow Metro to fully launch these additional vehicles. In the interim, new 4600s could be used to swap out and retrofit the older 4600s with improved Operator compartments. Bringing the 8 new coaches fully online in June 2018 will allow Metro to “fully electrify” the two routes (226 and 241) that have been partially operated by 40’ battery coaches for the past year.
New 7300 Gillig fleet to Bellevue Base in mid-2018
Expect to see 130 new Gilligs arrive and operate out of Bellevue Base replacing the remaining 1100s and 3200s.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the 48 segment on Columbian Way/16th Ave SW spun off as the 50? When did 50 service on 16th SW get replaced by the 135?

Why were bus routes between downtown and Boeing Industrial (170, 173) kept around until the light rail bus restructure, almost a decade after Boeing's headquarters left the state? It seemed so unnecessary.

Why didn't some urban routes get interlines? 6/16, 20/120, 66, 70, 125/135, they all terminated downtown instead of continuing as another route (5->54/55, 17 -> 130/132, 24 -> 136/137, 26 -> 42, 28 -> 39, 33 -> 37, etc). None of these routes crossed a drawbridge to my knowledge except the 66 and 70 (University Bridge), in those cases, terminating the routes downtown is perfectly understandable. I knew that the heavy boat traffic across the Ship Canal leads to frequent raising and lowering of the surface street crossings besides Aurora (Ballard, Fremont, University, Montlake), that led to heavy delays on the 15/18, 17, 26/28, 49 and so on; the delays would invariably cascade down to the 21/22/56 or the 130/132 (later the 23), 42, 39, 7, etc.

On 11/11/2017 at 1:48 PM, Atomic Taco said:

For anyone who is doing research on routes in the late 90s until now, The Wayback Machine may help.  You can view archived webpages by knowing the URL.  There's no search, and sometimes URLs aren't saved or don't work, but if you're patient (or super curious) it works well.  For the older stuff, try starting with Metro's old domain: metrokc.gov

 

http://web.archive.org/web/19980101000000*/transit.metrokc.gov

That's been one of my favourite resources to learn more about the bus system in the times before Metro's various restructures (Aurora 1999, ST Express 1999-, Northgate/Federal Way 2003, Delridge 2004, etc). Northwesterner said that the 47 was discontinued in the Sept 1996 service change, which would have been before Metro's website went online. What are some other major service changes that occurred before Metro had an internet presence? I know a couple:

  • The 44 was split from the 43 in the February 1993 service change.
  • At some point in the 80s or 90s, the 25 Lake City became the 7_X, with the route number "25" being put on the old 30 route to Laurelhurst and Seattle Children's.
  • The 8 was launched in 1995 between 1st N/N Roy and GroupHealth Capitol Hill campus. It was partially funded by GroupHealth Cooperative, like how Northwest Hospital partially funded the old 317 route. I'm not sure if service on MLK came later.

I only know about the 43/44 split because I stumbled across an archived Seattle Times about it. By the way, did the 44 exist back in the 70s or 80s, or had the Ballard-Downtown route always been one long continuous route like a cast-iron solid?

One more note about the old 50: When the 135 launched (whenever that was), the 50 was scaled back to a bidirectional peak-only White Center-VA Hospital-36th/Oregon route, I'm guessing to augment the infrequent 60 for service to the VA Hospital, as well as to provide bus access to the Pigeon Hill neighborhood just south of the Spokane St Bridge. It got discontinued I think in February 2000, there were huge cuts to bus service in the Columbia City/VA/Mid-Beacon Hill area that year I believe.

Pigeon Hill completely lost its bus service, but only because it was well inside the walkshed of the 20. Like how bus service on 4th Ave SW was completely cut in 2004 because it was in the walkshed of the improved 120, and there was no real need for the 137.

But unlike the old 50, Metro wants to, baffingly, return service to 4th SW in Burien,  despite having zero density or even zoning that might induce future density. The exception is the low-income housing developments in Park Lake (between Roxbury and 107th), and to that end, I thought the 128 worked just fine. (The route is codenamed "3040" in the Metro Connects plan if you want to see for yourself.)

Don't think I am ungrateful to northwesterner, roamer or AT for their helpful information about the old 30/47/62, just because I haven't been around the forums for a bit. I've liked and thanked all the appropriate posts, but I'd like to take the opportunity to personally thank you for sharing your rich knowledge of Metro history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, V3112 said:

When was the 48 segment on Columbian Way/16th Ave SW spun off as the 50? When did 50 service on 16th SW get replaced by the 135?

I don't know when the 48 stopped heading up the hill to Beacon Hill. Late 80s, I'd guess?

5 hours ago, V3112 said:

Why were bus routes between downtown and Boeing Industrial (170, 173) kept around until the light rail bus restructure, almost a decade after Boeing's headquarters left the state? It seemed so unnecessary.

There are employment centers in that area, including a continued presence by Boeing. Federal Center S, supposedly, also drives some ridership.

Keep in mind that while the 170 went by there (actually, after about 1998 it was shifted over to Airport Way and no longer served Boeing Industrial), it was really a route to service McMicken Hts and Military Road.

5 hours ago, V3112 said:

Why didn't some urban routes get interlines? 6/16, 20/120, 66, 70, 125/135, they all terminated downtown instead of continuing as another route (5->54/55, 17 -> 130/132, 24 -> 136/137, 26 -> 42, 28 -> 39, 33 -> 37, etc). None of these routes crossed a drawbridge to my knowledge except the 66 and 70 (University Bridge), in those cases, terminating the routes downtown is perfectly understandable..

Some of these routes once had interlines:

16 was through-routed with the 21 until Sept 1998, when the 21 was combined into the 15/18/21/22/56/57 1st Ave corridor. 16 was rerouted to the Ferry Terminal and thus had to terminate downtown.

In the 80s, the 6 had through routes, including, the 21 mentioned above. Route was very long already so it was hard to make it longer...

The 20 was through-routed with the 11 for many years, until the end of the 20.

66 is a truncated version of the old 302/305, which used to run all the way to Rainier Beach. Like the 16, it terminated at the Ferry Terminal, so no through route opportunities. 

The 125 was through routed with the 11 for many years. The 135 and its shorted lived pair 138 terminated downtown; not sure why they never had a through route pair.

5 hours ago, V3112 said:

 

  • At some point in the 80s or 90s, the 25 Lake City became the 7_X, with the route number "25" being put on the old 30 route to Laurelhurst and Seattle Children's.
  • The 8 was launched in 1995 between 1st N/N Roy and GroupHealth Capitol Hill campus. It was partially funded by GroupHealth Cooperative, like how Northwest Hospital partially funded the old 317 route. I'm not sure if service on MLK came later.

The 71/72/73 are long time Metro routes dating, probably, from the renumbering of the route structure and new destination signs in January 1978. They are the replacements for the multiple terminals of the Seattle Transit 7-15th Ave NE. Express service started in the 80s, and there were apparently a few different route patterns over the years. 

The 25 service to Lake City, via 35th Ave NE was eliminated in Sept 1998. The following changes also happened:

  • 25 new terminal in Laurelhurst, replacing the old 30, which was cancelled at the same time.
  • 25 Shuttle operated nights and weekends and terminated at Campus Parkway, similar to old route 30 Shuttle covering same hours. This was eliminated in the 695 cuts a few years later.
  • Service in Montlake was streamlined with all trips "Via Fuhrman Ave." Every other trip alternating service on Boyer Ave was eliminated.
  • Route 25 Express was renumbered as route 64.
  • Route 71 Night/Sunday Route, which covered part of the View Ridge loop on the 71 and then continued along the 25 route on 35th NE to Lake City was eliminated and all trips at all times operated via the View Ridge loop.

Route 8 service launched between Group Health and Seattle Center only; some headway reductions also occurred on route 10 to fund the route. Hard to imagine, but as late as the early 90s, Metro planning staff was very opposed to this route on Denny Way the community wanted badly. Metro finally compromised but said "we'll only do it if we can take some funds from the 10 to put this route out there we don't think will do very well." The early years saw 35ft Flyers assigned to the route. MLK extension came later, maybe Feb 99?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, V3112 said:

One more note about the old 50: When the 135 launched (whenever that was), the 50 was scaled back to a bidirectional peak-only White Center-VA Hospital-36th/Oregon route, I'm guessing to augment the infrequent 60 for service to the VA Hospital, as well as to provide bus access to the Pigeon Hill neighborhood just south of the Spokane St Bridge. It got discontinued I think in February 2000, there were huge cuts to bus service in the Columbia City/VA/Mid-Beacon Hill area that year I believe.

Incorrect; the 135 and 50 operated simultaneously for many years. I don't remember the sequence, but the 50 was cut back in 98 or 99 to the bidirectional peak only route you mention. I believe it actually operated out of South Base with vans at that time. It was cancelled as part of the I-695 cuts. 

I don't remember the justification for eliminating the all day 50, but I believe the section with the best ridership was the bit between W Sea Jct and Delridge, which was replaced by the 128. Whatever shakeup the 128 rolled out is when the 50 was cutback.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

New Flyer 8100s start arriving at East in November

East Base will start seeing 8100s arrive. The new 8100s at East will push 6800s from East over to North Base, so that North can begin retiring their fleet of 2300s, and eventually some 2600s.

New 4600 Proterra fleet to Bellevue base in March/June 2018

8 new Proterra coaches should arrive during the first half of 2018. Needed charging infrastructure at Bellevue Base and Eastgate P&R that should be in place in the June 2018 timeframe, which will allow Metro to fully launch these additional vehicles. In the interim, new 4600s could be used to swap out and retrofit the older 4600s with improved Operator compartments. Bringing the 8 new coaches fully online in June 2018 will allow Metro to “fully electrify” the two routes (226 and 241) that have been partially operated by 40’ battery coaches for the past year.

New 7300 Gillig fleet to Bellevue Base in mid-2018

Expect to see 130 new Gilligs arrive and operate out of Bellevue Base replacing the remaining 1100s and 3200s.

 

I spotted an 8138(?) getting washed in Lakewood at the truck wash this morning on the way home from work. It had a green upper body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, busdude.com said:

I spotted an 8138(?) getting washed in Lakewood at the truck wash this morning on the way home from work. It had a green upper body.

8188 maybe?  Aznichiro115 spotted 8138 as blue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spotted 6819 and 6814 on the 41 yesterday and today, so now some of East's 6800's are moving to North. My guess is that East will receive more XDE60 this coming week and within the next month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which 75/330 trips started at Lake City/130th? When did the short-turn trips on the 75 (to 125th/28th) get discontinued? Furthermore, did the additional Lake City-UW 75 trips (symbol "D" in the old timetables), plus the school shuttles to Nathan Hale (timetable symbol "C") start/end at Lake City/125th, Lake City/130th, 125th/28th, or somewhere else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2017 at 9:32 PM, northwesterner said:

I don't know when the 48 stopped heading up the hill to Beacon Hill. Late 80s, I'd guess?

The June 07 Book that Atomic (by way of Oran Viriyincy) gave me says the 48's major change was 7/88, so I'm assuming the 48/50 split occured in June 1988 (were service changes being scheduled for February/(June)/September a relatively recent occurrence?)

On 11/29/2017 at 9:32 PM, northwesterner said:

There are employment centers in that area, including a continued presence by Boeing. Federal Center S, supposedly, also drives some ridership.

Keep in mind that while the 170 went by there (actually, after about 1998 it was shifted over to Airport Way and no longer served Boeing Industrial), it was really a route to service McMicken Hts and Military Road.

I guess the current 156 (Southcenter-McMicken Heights-Highline College) and 154 shuttle (Tukwila Station-Boeing Industrial-Federal Center South) are more efficient than the old 170 (which went all the way to/from downtown Seattle) and 173 (between the S 320th St P&R and Boeing Industrial). Kind of like how service to Highland Park, Park Lake and Seahurst were split up into three disparate routes instead of the convoluted 136/137 plus the 139 loop: alternating local (4th Ave S/Highland Park/White Center, as far as Burien TC only) and express (4th to the 1st Ave S Bridge and SR 509, continuing to Seahurst) services, each with 1 hour headways, combined for effectively a 30 minute headway through the Industrial District and Highland Park, hourly service down either Ambaum (augmented in the peak direction by the 135) or through Park Lake and to Highline Hospital.

The 23 (Downtown-White Center) covered Highland Park, the 128 (Admiral District-Tukwila) covered Park Lake, the 123E covered the commuter "Flyer" passengers that live in Seahurst and work downtown. The only downside is, overall bus service in Seahurst/to Highline Hospital has been greately reduced (the 139 ran much earlier/later than the current DART 631 bus).

While I understand why it's important to keep direct bus routes to Federal Center South (it's a large military installation (Pacific Northwest HQ for the Army Corps of Engineers), plus it's the main office installation for U.S. government employees in the region), I thought there's no longer anything at Plant 2 besides MoF. In fact, I was under the impression that when Boeing moved its HQ from Georgetown to Chicago in 2001, it immediately closed and tore down Plant 2 and replaced it with wetlands (restored due to an agreement between Boeing and the Duwamish people). Actually, I'm shocked that bus service on E Marginal north of 1st Ave S is so bad considering how important of an employment center it is. Only the 113 "Flyer" route to Shorewood, limited service from the North Highline "Flyer" buses (operating in the peak direction only), and the 154.

On 11/29/2017 at 9:32 PM, northwesterner said:

Some of these routes once had interlines:

16 was through-routed with the 21 until Sept 1998, when the 21 was combined into the 15/18/21/22/56/57 1st Ave corridor. 16 was rerouted to the Ferry Terminal and thus had to terminate downtown.

In the 80s, the 6 had through routes, including, the 21 mentioned above. Route was very long already so it was hard to make it longer...

The 20 was through-routed with the 11 for many years, until the end of the 20.

66 is a truncated version of the old 302/305, which used to run all the way to Rainier Beach. Like the 16, it terminated at the Ferry Terminal, so no through route opportunities. 

The 125 was through routed with the 11 for many years. The 135 and its shorted lived pair 138 terminated downtown; not sure why they never had a through route pair.

Some notes/musings:

  • The 21 being moved onto the 1st Ave corridor happened before King County Metro had an internet presence, so you'll have to excuse me for not knowing about that!
  • I read a Seattle Transit Blog post about the 1999 Aurora restructure, and from what I read, the 6 was a long and route. (2-3 stop spacing?!) Imagine having to go from Aurora Village all the way to Arbor Heights and back again. It would be like the 22 Knight (TransLink), starting at Dunbar Loop, going through downtown and down Knight, crossing the Knight Street Bridge into Richmond (some trips do do this, they're signed as "22 Knight via Industrial"), then continuing on Bridgeport/No. 3 Road to Richmond Centre. This is all pre-Canada Line of course, Richmond Centre is now Richmond-Brighouse Station, plus the 22 currently (as of 6/27/16) runs as far as downtown only due to construction on Burrard.
  • The 20 might have interlined, but its replacement, the 120, does not. Maybe it's too frequent to be paired up with a suitable Central Base route? It doesn't help that the 120 is going to become RapidRide H Line in 2020; I don't think any RapidRide routes interline.
  • The June 07 Book says "New 6/97", so I'm assuming that the 66 replaced the 302/305 as part of the June 1997 service change. I'm also assuming that the 302 of which you speak is not related to the later incernation of the 302, which replaced the 318 up Meridian/to the Four Freedoms Retirement Home when the Bush Administration pulled funding for the route in 2002 (and in turn got replaced by the 345 in the 2003 Haller Lake restructure).
  • Why wasn't a second attempt made to interline the 16 and 66 to save on resources? Were they, like the 120, too frequent to get paired up with another Central Base route?

 

On 11/29/2017 at 9:32 PM, northwesterner said:

Route 8 service launched between Group Health and Seattle Center only; some headway reductions also occurred on route 10 to fund the route. Hard to imagine, but as late as the early 90s, Metro planning staff was very opposed to this route on Denny Way the community wanted badly. Metro finally compromised but said "we'll only do it if we can take some funds from the 10 to put this route out there we don't think will do very well." The early years saw 35ft Flyers assigned to the route. MLK extension came later, maybe Feb 99?

When I first saw this part of your post, I did some extra research on the 8 since the only thing I knew was that it started in 1995. GuyOnBeaconHill made a Page 2 post on STB about the origins of the 8, how MoMS/KCM was absolutely unwilling to develop a crosstown Denny route due to a perpetual shortage of buses in the 80s, how Capitol Hill BIA and GroupHealth Cooperative had to plead with Metro for decades for the route--eventually,  Metro only agreed because they were able to cut service on several trolley routes (e.g. 43 was reduced to 30 minute headways on Sundays), and stuck 35' Flyers on the route. This transitioned into 35' Phantoms, then 40' Phantoms/D40LFs, then D60s/DE60LFs, now XDE60s are on the route and SDOT is shelling out money for a Denny bus lane. Which tells you how important the 8 has become.

 

On 11/29/2017 at 9:48 PM, northwesterner said:

Incorrect; the 135 and 50 operated simultaneously for many years. I don't remember the sequence, but the 50 was cut back in 98 or 99 to the bidirectional peak only route you mention. I believe it actually operated out of South Base with vans at that time. It was cancelled as part of the I-695 cuts. 

I don't remember the justification for eliminating the all day 50, but I believe the section with the best ridership was the bit between W Sea Jct and Delridge, which was replaced by the 128. Whatever shakeup the 128 rolled out is when the 50 was cutback.

In the 1988 map to which Roamer linked, it said that the 50 had 60 minute service on weekdays between 35th Ave SW/Avalon, and 36th/Oregon. There was also no 135 route listed. When was the 50 extended down Ambaum, and when did was the 135 introduced?

(Disclaimer: Political comments below; I'll keep them brief)

Thanks for jogging my memory about I-695. It's hard to believe that Seattle's economy was in its death throes only 20 years ago (and again in the 1970s). Though, I wish the region had planned for its future by supporting a state income tax and investing in transit, despite the political climate at the time. Maybe with that "Blue Midterm 2018" movement that's been gaining steam, the state Dems can flip seats in the leg (hopefully Tim Sheldon loses his primary race) and try to Trump-proof the state's economy with a state income tax (now that SCOTUS has declared the city's income tax unconstitutional). On the other hand, who would have expected 10-15 years ago that salaries and rents would skyrocket in Seattle of all places, along with gas being $3.10/gallon? Hindsight is 20/20

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, V3112 said:

The June 07 Book that Atomic (by way of Oran Viriyincy) gave me says the 48's major change was 7/88, so I'm assuming the 48/50 split occured in June 1988 (were service changes being scheduled for February/(June)/September a relatively recent occurrence?)

That's as good a guess as any. I'd presume the Rainier Beach turnbacks began at that time, because a truncation is usually a minor change, whereas a major change requires requalification.

45 minutes ago, V3112 said:

While I understand why it's important to keep direct bus routes to Federal Center South (it's a large military installation (Pacific Northwest HQ for the Army Corps of Engineers), plus it's the main office installation for U.S. government employees in the region), I thought there's no longer anything at Plant 2 besides MoF. In fact, I was under the impression that when Boeing moved its HQ from Georgetown to Chicago in 2001, it immediately closed and tore down Plant 2 and replaced it with wetlands (restored due to an agreement between Boeing and the Duwamish people). Actually, I'm shocked that bus service on E Marginal north of 1st Ave S is so bad considering how important of an employment center it is. Only the 113 "Flyer" route to Shorewood, limited service from the North Highline "Flyer" buses (operating in the peak direction only), and the 154.

The headquarters were in a building on the west side of the street. That build is still used by Boeing, with some office workers and a whole bunch of meeting rooms. While I don't believe there is any manufacturing activity still occurring at Boeing Field, you should note that "Plant 2" refers to a complex of buildings both on Boeing Field as well as across the street and Boeing maintains a pretty sizable workforce at these locations. It's not what it once was, but its bigger than you'd think.

48 minutes ago, V3112 said:

I read a Seattle Transit Blog post about the 1999 Aurora restructure, and from what I read, the 6 was a long and route. (2-3 stop spacing?!) Imagine having to go from Aurora Village all the way to Arbor Heights and back again. 

The 6 was a horrifically long and slow route. It is painful to imagine, in a RapidRide world, actually riding that thing the length of Aurora. The stops were every other block, and the overlay was the 359 (with every 3 or 4 block spacing) and a rush hour only 360 (which really made limited stops). I can remember riding the 6. Whether you were going a long ways or just a short distance, it was very, very slow. 

Additionally, it served the west side of Green Lake, Stone Way in Wallingford, and got off Aurora to serve Seattle Center. Awful.

51 minutes ago, V3112 said:
  • also assuming that the 302 of which you speak is not related to the later incernation of the 302, which replaced the 318 up Meridian/to the Four Freedoms Retirement Home when the Bush Administration pulled funding for the route in 2002 (and in turn got replaced by the 345 in the 2003 Haller Lake restructure).
  • Why wasn't a second attempt made to interline the 16 and 66 to save on resources? Were they, like the 120, too frequent to get paired up with another Central Base route?

The later incarnation of the 302 was the section of the old 302 north of Northgate Transit Center. The old 302 (along with the 305, which had a different routing through Shoreline which escapes my memory tonight) operated "via Eastlake Express" between Northgate and Downtown. This segment became the 66.

 

IMHO, the 66 and 16 should have operated out of the same base (there was a year or so in the late 00s they both were at Ryerson, but other than that the 66 was always a North Base route). They had different headways, so even though they shared terminals on both ends, it would have been a bit difficult to interline them. However, there could have been some efficiencies found and perhaps so eliminated deadheads if a run could do both routes, which ever the next departure was that allowed a reasonable layover.

54 minutes ago, V3112 said:

When I first saw this part of your post, I did some extra research on the 8 since the only thing I knew was that it started in 1995. GuyOnBeaconHill made a Page 2 post on STB about the origins of the 8, how MoMS/KCM was absolutely unwilling to develop a crosstown Denny route due to a perpetual shortage of buses in the 80s, how Capitol Hill BIA and GroupHealth Cooperative had to plead with Metro for decades for the route--eventually,  Metro only agreed because they were able to cut service on several trolley routes (e.g. 43 was reduced to 30 minute headways on Sundays), and stuck 35' Flyers on the route. This transitioned into 35' Phantoms, then 40' Phantoms/D40LFs, then D60s/DE60LFs, now XDE60s are on the route and SDOT is shelling out money for a Denny bus lane. Which tells you how important the 8 has become.

A "shortage of buses" is a false excuse for Metro not doing the 8 in the late 80s. They had equipment they were slowly phasing out in that time period, including the 1100 series AMGs. 

Please note that 35ft Phantoms were not used on the 8 on a regular basis. They only spent about a year at Ryerson Base (after they were replaced at south by the 1100 series Gilligs) and before they were sent to North Base for use on the 74. I believe there was a single AM tripper on the 8 that used a 35ft Phantom in 2001, but other than that, they were not regular equipment on the route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2017 at 11:05 AM, Atomic Taco said:

New 7300 Gillig fleet to Bellevue Base in mid-2018

Expect to see 130 new Gilligs arrive and operate out of Bellevue Base replacing the remaining 1100s and 3200s.

Wasn't it 100 buses, or did they opt for 30 more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it was a fleet wide change with the remaining coaches, but 3337 has LED headlamps like the DE60LFs eventually got. Not sure if the New Flyer/Gillig old-style headlamps are interchangeable but they look similar. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, anonymous guy said:

Not sure if it was a fleet wide change with the remaining coaches, but 3337 has LED headlamps like the DE60LFs eventually got. Not sure if the New Flyer/Gillig old-style headlamps are interchangeable but they look similar. 

All Phantoms now have those LED Headlights, they converted them around October of 2016, that particular style is very common among buses & trucks actually, so ordering that particular headlight is actually pretty inexpensive unlike trying to order an Xcelsior headlight. Here's 3333 with the LED conversion if you look closely, all the 1100 series 30' Phantoms got the LEDs as well.

3333.JPG

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kid you not, the madness just never seems to end with the 271, this morning I was checking OneBusAway, saw yes... a NORTH D40LF doing this route this time which I caught on video as well, it was eventually swapped out for 7246 at around 10-10:30ish from what I was told.

3615 Rt. 271.JPG

IMG_2632.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, pnwelevator said:

Kid you not, the madness just never seems to end with the 271, this morning I was checking OneBusAway, saw yes... a NORTH D40LF doing this route this time which I caught on video as well, it was eventually swapped out for 7246 at around 10-10:30ish from what I was told.

3615 Rt. 271.JPG

IMG_2632.jpg

I'm not sure if it's as unusual as you think.  Perhaps not common but there are certain scenarios where a trip might be filled either out of another base or with different equipment out of the same base.  

Why a trip might need to be "filled" could be for a myriad of reasons including, 1) opertator sick on the road, 2) breakdown, 3) accident, 4) unit in question getting extremely late for a variety of reasons, just to name a few.

Many times during the peak times, the coordinator will find any unit that might be going out of service and back to the base to fill a trip.  They will, of course, try to use a unit out of the same base.  But let's say they can't.  They will then use anybody that might be willing to fill the trip no matter what base they are out of.  

I've also witnessed this happening.  Let's say Bellevue Base is out of report operators as they are all out on the road.  A 271 opens up at the window because a driver has called in sick.  The window-person (base dispatcher) will then call the coordinator reporting that they do not have an operator to sign in for that piece of work.  The coordinator will the start working on how they can at least get that first trip filled so that service isn't missed.  He/she somewhere during the sequence will call the other bases to see if they have a qualified report operator to at least fill the first trip if not more.  Let's say that North base does have an available report operator who is qualified on the 271.  The North base dispatcher will then have that report operator go to the hostler and get a coach in order to start a trip on the 271 that, let's say, starts in the U'district. The North Base report operator then takes, let's say, a 3600 coach out to start that first 271 trip (perhaps makes an entire round trip or could just make one trip to Eastgate) and by the time he/she finishes that trip, the peak time is winding down and Bellevue Base report operators are now arriving back at the base off of the trippers they are working.   A Bellevue Base report operator can now go out with the Bellevue Base 7200 that was originally assigned to that piece of work and plug themselves in where the North Base report operator left off.  The North Base opertor then takes the 3600 back to North Base. 

Who knows what happened this morning.  It may have been a situation similar to the one I described or something entirely different.  But working report for as long as I did, I know that there could be a dozen or more reasons why you saw that 3600 on the 271.  

 

 

 

 

eta:  I'll say this, I like you, am observant of and also enjoy seeing and analyzing anomalies in fleet assignments.  I guess I'm somewhat of a transit geek in that respect as I have a vivid recollection from back in the late 60s when once seeing a brand new 700 coach operating on the Latona line which ALWAYS had 200s assigned. I was like "wow --what's going on??"  I wondered to myself if the Latona line was going to be transitioning to these brand new modern buses.  Alas, the next day I checked that same trip and it had a 200 back on it and did for years to come.  In fact, even when I started driving for Metro in the 70s, they were just starting to mix in a few 500s with the 200s on the Latona line but never had 700s regularly assigned to that route.  I'm sure it was a scenario where that 700 was just filling in for one trip on that particular day.  

anecdote:   I knew at the time that the 700s were purchased specifically for Blue Streak service but still held out hope that we'd get them on the Latona line, lol.  My girlfriend back then lived on the Meridian line and that route (called "Green Lake" by Seattle Transit) actually had 700s assigned.   Was there a 16 Blue Streak?  That's foggy for some reason ...seems as if there was but I can't picture the route that it took when it was doing a Blue Streak.  Anybody have a list of the original and expanded Blue Streak lines?

Funny because as a kid, I rode the "Green Lake" bus and it was a trolley.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, roamer said:

I'm not sure if it's as unusual as you think.  Perhaps not common but there are certain scenarios where a trip might be filled either out of another base or with different equipment out of the same base.  

Why a trip might need to be "filled" could be for a myriad of reasons including, 1) opertator sick on the road, 2) breakdown, 3) accident, 4) unit in question getting extremely late for a variety of reasons, just to name a few.

Many times during the peak times, the coordinator will find any unit that might be going out of service and back to the base to fill a trip.  They will, of course, try to use a unit out of the same base.  But let's say they can't.  They will then use anybody that might be willing to fill the trip no matter what base they are out of.  

I've also witnessed this happening.  Let's say Bellevue Base is out of report operators as they are all out on the road.  A 271 opens up at the window because a driver has called in sick.  The window-person (base dispatcher) will then call the coordinator reporting that they do not have an operator to sign in for that piece of work.  The coordinator will the start working on how they can at least get that first trip filled so that service isn't missed.  He/she somewhere during the sequence will call the other bases to see if they have a qualified report operator to at least fill the first trip if not more.  Let's say that North base does have an available report operator who is qualified on the 271.  The North base dispatcher will then have that report operator go to the hostler and get a coach in order to start a trip on the 271 that, let's say, starts in the U'district. The North Base report operator then takes, let's say, a 3600 coach out to start that first 271 trip (perhaps makes an entire round trip or could just make one trip to Eastgate) and by the time he/she finishes that trip, the peak time is winding down and Bellevue Base report operators are now arriving back at the base off of the trippers they are working.   A Bellevue Base report operator can now go out with the Bellevue Base 7200 that was originally assigned to that piece of work and plug themselves in where the North Base report operator left off.  The North Base opertor then takes the 3600 back to North Base. 

Who knows what happened this morning.  It may have been a situation similar to the one I described or something entirely different.  But working report for as long as I did, I know that there could be a dozen or more reasons why you saw that 3600 on the 271.  

 

 

 

 

eta:  I'll say this, I like you, am observant of and also enjoy seeing and analyzing anomalies in fleet assignments.  I guess I'm somewhat of a transit geek in that respect as I have a vivid recollection from back in the late 60s when once seeing a brand new 700 coach operating on the Latona line which ALWAYS had 200s assigned. I was like "wow --what's going on??"  I wondered to myself if the Latona line was going to be transitioning to these brand new modern buses.  Alas, the next day I checked that same trip and it had a 200 back on it and did for years to come.  In fact, even when I started driving for Metro in the 70s, they were just starting to mix in a few 500s with the 200s on the Latona line but never had 700s regularly assigned to that route.  I'm sure it was a scenario where that 700 was just filling in for one trip on that particular day.  

anecdote:   I knew at the time that the 700s were purchased specifically for Blue Streak service but still held out hope that we'd get them on the Latona line, lol.  My girlfriend back then lived on the Meridian line and that route (called "Green Lake" by Seattle Transit) actually had 700s assigned.   Was there a 16 Blue Streak?  That's foggy for some reason ...seems as if there was but I can't picture the route that it took when it was doing a Blue Streak.  Anybody have a list of the original and expanded Blue Streak lines?

Funny because as a kid, I rode the "Green Lake" bus and it was a trolley.

Here's an article courtesy of the Seattle Times from 1970 that gives the list of all the Blue Streak Routes, yes indeed there was a 16 Meridian Blue Streak, and trust me, just from riding 724 a few times, it's a blast. :) 

9-1-70.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...