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Orion VIII

King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

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2 hours ago, Transit man2015 said:

Shared off of Facebook but the Gillig is in route to KCM 

F882FE1F-4D12-4CEF-AAEA-954C1FDFD6EF.jpeg

Thanks for this.  I was waiting to see what front cap they will have.   I'm a little disappointed that they won't be the BRT style as they look so much better aesthetically but the visibility for the driver using the classic Advantage style is better so I have mixed feelings.  The classic Advantage style looks outdated but I would personally feel more comfortable driving it compared to the better-looking more modern Advantage with BRT front cap. 

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Someone in the facebook group also pointed out that the longer front end on the BRTs would pose a problem on some of the steeper hills on the system. I personally hate the way 7300 looks and I'd take an XDE40 over it any day in terms of looks, but the Gilligs tend to run a little nicer. I also heard that they have parallelogram plug doors on the back, which in addition to looking awful thanks to the huge crossbar in the middle have been terribly slow on CT's Swift buses.

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22 minutes ago, _jrst said:

Someone in the facebook group also pointed out that the longer front end on the BRTs would pose a problem on some of the steeper hills on the system. I personally hate the way 7300 looks and I'd take an XDE40 over it any day in terms of looks, but the Gilligs tend to run a little nicer. I also heard that they have parallelogram plug doors on the back, which in addition to looking awful thanks to the huge crossbar in the middle have been terribly slow on CT's Swift buses.

Oh, okay, thanks.  I'm not connected to this facebook group ya'll's keep referring to.  Yeah, I suppose the longer front overhang would scrape in some places.  Too bad as I too prefer the look of the Xcelsior or Gillig BRT to the 7300s. 

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40 minutes ago, _jrst said:

Someone in the facebook group also pointed out that the longer front end on the BRTs would pose a problem on some of the steeper hills on the system. I personally hate the way 7300 looks and I'd take an XDE40 over it any day in terms of looks, but the Gilligs tend to run a little nicer. I also heard that they have parallelogram plug doors on the back, which in addition to looking awful thanks to the huge crossbar in the middle have been terribly slow on CT's Swift buses.

I don’t think the BRT would pose any scraping problems. Xcelsiors hang too low and as far as I’ve heard haven’t scraped YET.

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Just now, OR Transit Fan said:

I don’t think the BRT would pose any scraping problems. Xcelsiors hang too low and as far as I’ve heard haven’t scraped YET.

Xcelsiors are low but they only project the width of the door over the front wheels. BRTs have the extra two feet for the sloping windshield which I think is the concern.

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2 hours ago, Transit man2015 said:

Shared off of Facebook but the Gillig is in route to KCM 

F882FE1F-4D12-4CEF-AAEA-954C1FDFD6EF.jpeg

Ohhh! Looks NICE!! So glad they’re getting these instead of XDE40’s. I like how they got the standard front and framed windows. I also like how they upgraded to plug doors

Just now, _jrst said:

Xcelsiors are low but they only project the width of the door over the front wheels. BRTs have the extra two feet for the sloping windshield which I think is the concern.

TriMet has 29’ Gillig BRT’s that are used on the hilliest and most challenging routes and have no issues

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11 hours ago, OR Transit Fan said:

Ohhh! Looks NICE!! So glad they’re getting these instead of XDE40’s. I like how they got the standard front and framed windows. I also like how they upgraded to plug doors

TriMet has 29’ Gillig BRT’s that are used on the hilliest and most challenging routes and have no issues

I don't know if I would call plug doors an upgrade... 

Also a 29ft bus has a short wheelbase so it's not comparable to a 40ft bus. 

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1 hour ago, northwesterner said:

Also a 29ft bus has a short wheelbase so it's not comparable to a 40ft bus. 

29 footer Gilligs have more up and down motion outside the wheelbase

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18 hours ago, Transit man2015 said:

Shared off of Facebook but the Gillig is in route to KCM 

F882FE1F-4D12-4CEF-AAEA-954C1FDFD6EF.jpeg

Given the choice between the Advantage or the BRT, the Advantage is a nicer look, imo.

The BRT tried with its modern design, but its not aesthetically pleasing compared to other BRT-styled designs from other manufacturers. The front of the BRT looks like an exaggerated rail car, while the "hump" on the rear cap looks hideous.

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31 minutes ago, anonymous guy said:

Given the choice between the Advantage or the BRT, the Advantage is a nicer look, imo.

The BRT tried with its modern design, but its not aesthetically pleasing compared to other BRT-styled designs from other manufacturers. The front of the BRT looks like an exaggerated rail car, while the "hump" on the rear cap looks hideous.

I agree, although in my opinion it really depends on the paint scheme, like Sound Transit paint looks good on a BRT.

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I'm assuming the new Advantage 40's are going to be in a "pattern". The XDE60s were in what I call a "green-blue-teal" pattern because of their order arrangement, so I might as well expect that the Advantages might follow that "pattern" or possibly "green-teal blue" because 7300 is green.

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2 hours ago, Jaykob Walson said:

I'm assuming the new Advantage 40's are going to be in a "pattern". The XDE60s were in what I call a "green-blue-teal" pattern because of their order arrangement, so I might as well expect that the Advantages might follow that "pattern" or possibly "green-teal blue" because 7300 is green.

What are you talking about?

As I recall, metro is down to 3 colors, RED for rapid Ride, Green and Purple for the fixed route buses. Teal was an original color, but when Rapid Ride started, there was an agreement made with the body shop to keep the number of colors to paint and stock down and Teal was dropped. Or so I heard anyway.

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22 minutes ago, busdude.com said:

What are you talking about?

As I recall, metro is down to 3 colors, RED for rapid Ride, Green and Purple for the fixed route buses. Teal was an original color, but when Rapid Ride started, there was an agreement made with the body shop to keep the number of colors to paint and stock down and Teal was dropped. Or so I heard anyway.

There are teal XDE40’s and XDE35’s, along with the Orion’s.

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please delete - inaccurate or bogus assumptions

 

I've also heard that rumor that teal would be discontinued.  I guess we won't know for sure until the 7300 and 8100 fleets get filled in.  The 8000s are the last order that has completely arrived and they have teal, correct?  

Not sure about "being down to 3 colors" as BLUE is still in the mix.  So that makes 4 colors, correct?  ...red, purple, blue, and green.

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Yeah... Teal is still very much a color we use. Not sure where that info came from... Only the RapidRides and Trolleys are color specific. 

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1 hour ago, RapidRideTy said:

Yeah... Teal is still very much a color we use. Not sure where that info came from... Only the RapidRides and Trolleys are color specific. 

And oh, battery-electric Proterra buses have a blue livery.

King_County_Metro_Proterra_Catalyst_elec

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Sudden topic change, I know, but here's some shots during this weekend's MEHVA's Fall Foliage Excursion, didn't get a chance to get a shot of Breda 5034 tho. Also, the 1959 Metropolitan GM Old Look 2962 made its first appearance of the year before departure from Seattle for some exercise, however didn't go on this excursion, it's fresh off of a repair, however, it SHOULD go on the Santa's Lights Tour in December, enjoy these shots and hopefully some more memories are remembered for some:)

1657.JPG

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3152 BD.JPG

2962 Side.jpg

2962 Driver's Area.JPG

2962 Interior.JPG

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I found a cache today that included 8199.  It was green.  So going off the list of 8100 ~ 8116 and 8150 ~ 8199 being green and 8117 ~ 8138 being blue, I'd say there's little chance of there being much else.

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16 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

I found a cache today that included 8199.  It was green.  So going off the list of 8100 ~ 8116 and 8150 ~ 8199 being green and 8117 ~ 8138 being blue, I'd say there's little chance of there being much else.

8100s and 8200s are probably the same order, so the 8200s there might not be any green but only blue and teal. The numbers do work out, 200/3=66.6. As we assume there are 67 green 8100s. 22 blue 8100s. There should be either 45 blue and 66 teal 8200s or 44 blue and 67 teal 8200s. Then we would still end with a some what even distribution. 67-67-66.

 

Just my theory. 

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On 9/15/2017 at 12:00 AM, Atomic Taco said:

For many dozens of years before the tunnel closed, Metro operated on a UHF (450 MHz) conventional analog system.  Since ST didn't exist, there was no need for interoperability.  The system had expansive coverage throughout King County and beyond, and even had dedicated repeaters in the tunnel.

Since its inception, Link has used an 800 MHz trunked system (PSERN).  It's the same system used by every police officer, firefighter, and loads of others in King County.

When joint operations started in the DSTT, Metro had to install a second radio in every bus that went in to the tunnel.  Apparently having train operators and bus operators able to talk to each other prevents crashes (or something like that; probably some sort of rule set out by the FRA).

In 2011, Metro replaced their old UHF system with a 700 MHz trunked system.  Despite only being 300 MHz apart, the two were nothing like each other and wouldn't be able to use any of the same equipment.

The 700 and 800 systems aren't terribly different from each other.  From a technical perspective, there is no reason why Metro couldn't have been put on PSERN.  However, voice transmissions on transit systems tend to be frequent, long, and drawn out.  PSERN didn't have the capacity for that, so Metro had to build their own.

Both systems use Motorola radios.  Motorola sells radios that will do 700 and 800 in the same radio.  I'm 99% positive KCSO Transit PD carries these so they can talk to the PD dispatchers and the Metro coordinators without having to have two radios on their belt.  The same could have been done in every tunnel bus.  But for reasons of timing (and maybe some systems integration issues) it wasn't.  So now every bus that goes in the tunnel bus has to get an extra radio installed, and at the end of joint ops there's going to be a ton of surplus 800 radios.

Much more technical information on page 242 of this document.

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36 minutes ago, dancingfatpotato said:

Are the coaches scratched by the bus wash? It seems as if many of the xcelsiors are not very shiny anymore, rather they have scratch marks all over the paint 

All buses will lose their shine eventually... they don't always stay brand new forever, it's called aging.

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