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Orion VIII

King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

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36 minutes ago, MetroFan6774 said:

I have been seeing at least one or two phantom 40's per weekday on route 236/238, which is a route that usually uses all phantom 30's and xde35's. Why are phantom 40's starting to show up more on that route?

It seems like Bellevue does not have enough xde35's to eventually replace all of the remaining 1100's, since 3708, 3709, 3724, 3726, 3729 and 3731 have been moved to south base. Also, I've noticed that there are no green xde35's at Bellevue. What will eventually replace all of the 30 or so remaining Bellevue Base 1100's if there are only 14 xde35's currently at Bellevue? Also, why does East only have the '08/09 DE60LF's and DE60LFR's? I sure do miss, but remember having and riding the '04 DE60LF's and D60's back at East, back from 2011 or so.

 

At the time the XDE35s were delivered, there were enough to replace all active 1100s in the fleet, at all bases. 

Metro made the decision to use the 3700s at Bellevue Base to retire more 3200s, given their older age and higher overall usage. Many routes are operating with 1100s/3700s that had 40ftrs on them in the past. 

I'd expect when the next fleet of 40ft coaches is delivered, the 3700s will return to the eastside routes that have historically used small coaches, and the 40ftrs will be back where they once were, as well.

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3 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

Metro is ordering "more than 100" battery electric buses for delivery in 2019.

Full announcement coming tomorrow... stay tuned!

Do we know yet how this fits in with the budget documents that have been discussed previously in this thread? Supposedly there wasn't much room for fleet expansion, especially in terms of 40' coaches - will these (Proterra I assume) stand in for the hypothetical 100 BAE-powered Gilligs that were going to arrive around the same time?

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3 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

Metro is ordering "more than 100" battery electric buses for delivery in 2019.

Full announcement coming tomorrow... stay tuned!

:o:o:o That will be an historic announcement! The biggest order yet in this country, by far!!

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On 1/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, northwesterner said:

As noted above, route 36 has was never "only" operated by AMG trolleys. Going back through the 80s, the 36 short turn (first at Dawson Street, then, from 2000-on, Othello St) was operated with trolley coaches. For many years the pattern was every 20 minutes with a trolley short turn, and every 20 minutes with a diesel, continuing to Rainier Beach for a combined 10 minutes base headway. The diesels were a mix of artic and standard for many years. 

In your timeline above, there was no point where all service on the 36 was with articulated vehicles ("Breda trolleys + DE60LFs). The assignment of artic trolleys to the 36 started after the Rainier Beach trips went away in a reorganization and all runs terminated at Othello Station. It was specific trips only, to handle specific busy loads.

Alright, I did not know this. So what you're telling me is:

  • Every 20 minutes, a diesel 36 would route from the RBHS/Seward Park Ave S loop (also used by the 7 and 48), up Beacon (via Carkeek and 39th), take 14th/12th S up to Jackson, go up 3rd, then turnback via Blanchard-7th-Lenora-3rd to go back to Beacon Hill. These runs were a mix of 60 foot (D60, DE/D60LF) and 40 foot (Gillig, D40LF) coaches.
  • In between departures by diesel trips, 40 foot trolleys (AMG, 4100s) would shuttle between Rainier Beach and Jefferson Park (Beacon/Othello) every 20 minutes, maintaining a 10 minute headway between Beacon/Othello and RBHS.
  • From 5th/Jackson, the 1 would only go as far as the Jefferson Park turnback (Beacon/Othello), since combined trolley/diesel 36 trips covered the Othello-Henderson corridor.
  • After the light rail bus restructure, Breda trippers were assigned to handle overloads. Those trippers were removed upon the U Link extension, to beef up capacity on the 70 and increase service in the Eastlake/Fairview corridor. But was 36 service increased to compensate? Beacon is still a pretty low-income area, and the 60 goes down 15th Ave S while light rail is a fair walk.

Do I have it right? I'm sorry if I messed anything up.

But that still doesn't explain why there were no artic 1/36 interlines. Is the area around Kinnear Park/10th Ave W too hilly for diesels?

On 1/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, northwesterner said:

As noted, construction. I'm hearing rumblings that there are concerns about operators going out in the street repeatedly to put the poles back up if they have to use ESS to go around construction sites. I'd like to see the city take a harder approach to when they permit construction projects to turn off the trolley overhead (for instance, we're going on 18 months now for a project at 2nd and Virginia that regularly has the overhead turned off. Are they actually working on the exterior of that building every single weekend?). 

That's very bizarre, coming from Vancouver. I usually only see trolley routes being dieselized during major reroutes/detours, like the pride parade or the Canada Day Parade. Doesn't construction take place on weekdays?

 

On 1/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, northwesterner said:

Yes, the MAN artics were regulars on the city routes. IIRC the majority of the 2000s were assigned to Central/Ryerson/North Bases operated on urban City of Seattle routes. The 1400s, which were geared for the freeway and not W/C accessible were primarily used on suburban routes. Ryerson Base last operated a batch of about 10 in 1996 on select trippers. After that, they were not to be seen on urban routes again.

This is the most shocking thing in your post to me. From browsing Busdude.com wayback 15 years ago, I've always associated with 2000s with suburban routes (266, 307, 194, 159), and 3000s with urban routes that later switched to D60s (24, 26). I've never seen a photo of a 2000 on an urban route. I've seen plenty of 4000s on the 43/44/49, but they were retired relatively recently.

 

On 1/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, northwesterner said:

Geography, mostly. Until about 10 years ago, most of the routes at Central and Ryerson had operated at those bases for decades. There was the occasional swap over, but that was rare.

Could you give me a rundown of which bases traditionally served which routes? Like, I know Atlantic served the 1/2/3/4/7/10/12/etc., and North served the 301/307/358/etc., but how were routes split among Central, Ryerson, South and East?

 

On 1/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, northwesterner said:

The 345/346 serve the stops at 115th and Meridian with a combined 15 minute headway on weekdays. Its a quick trip to Northgate, where one can transfer to a myriad of destinations on other, frequent routes. Seems pretty decent to me given its a relatively low density area.

That's another thing I didn't know. I thought that the only route down Meridian was the 316. I had no idea about the 345/346. Yeah, in conjunction with the recent increase in Downtown-Northgate service, the 345/346 offers surprisingly good service for the area.

Thank you for the highly informative post.

 

Quote

Metro is ordering "more than 100" battery electric buses for delivery in 2019.

Full announcement coming tomorrow... stay tuned!

Do you think that the Trump Administration will end the federal program that has funded the purchase of these Proterra buses? That would be gut wrenching!

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2 minutes ago, V3112 said:

Could you give me a rundown of which bases traditionally served which routes? Like, I know Atlantic served the 1/2/3/4/7/10/12/etc., and North served the 301/307/358/etc., but how were routes split among Central, Ryerson, South and East?

Section 2 of The Book has the breakdown.

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23 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

Metro is ordering "more than 100" battery electric buses for delivery in 2019.

Full announcement coming tomorrow... stay tuned!

It's interesting that they'll also be experimenting with buses from other manufacturers to increase range .  And evidently, it sounds as if it's less than 73 Proterras initially  ..."more than 100" was definitely an exciting headline but this is still encouraging news.   Artics some time in the future too! 

King County Executive announces purchases of battery buses, challenges industry to build next-generation transit

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2 hours ago, roamer said:

It's interesting that they'll also be experimenting with buses from other manufacturers to increase range .  And evidently, it sounds as if it's less than 73 Proterras initially  ..."more than 100" was definitely an exciting headline but this is still encouraging news.   Artics some time in the future too! 

King County Executive announces purchases of battery buses, challenges industry to build next-generation transit

No orders for artics just yet.  Dow challenged the industry to build a 60 footer that could handle KCM's workload (apparently BYD's doesn't cut it).

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On 1/9/2017 at 0:49 PM, rickycourtney said:

Metro is ordering "more than 100" battery electric buses for delivery in 2019.

Full announcement coming tomorrow... stay tuned!

So did they get Gilligs?

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On 1/8/2017 at 1:29 PM, pnwelevator said:

Updated List of Remaining 30' Phantoms as of 1/61/17 According to OneBusAway.

1100, 1103, 1104, 1113, 1114, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1120, 1122, 1125, 1129, 1131, 1133, 1135, 1138, 1139, 1142, 1143, 1154, 1156, 1160, 1168, 1169, 1187, and 1192.

All at Bellevue Base

1101, 1105, 1108, 1127, 1174, and 1180 are listed as "Vehicle Not Found"

 

1108 and 1187 were on the lift today at Bellevue Base

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19 minutes ago, Atomic Taco said:

1108 and 1187 were on the lift today at Bellevue Base

I saw 1187 was out yesterday running the rural Rt. 208, something must've happened to it then if it's on the lift today...

3 minutes ago, pnwelevator said:

I saw 1187 was out yesterday running the rural Rt. 208, something must've happened to it then if it's on the lift today...

One More note I just forgot to mention when I did the 40' Phantom list, 3494 is also listed as "Vehicle Not Found" On OneBusAway, has been since the Spring of 2016.

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2 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

No orders for artics just yet.  Dow challenged the industry to build a 60 footer that could handle KCM's workload (apparently BYD's doesn't cut it).

New Flyer has, or will have, a battery artic available. LA Metro will get the first ones.

https://www.newflyer.com/rss/770-new-flyer-60-foot-electric-bus-will-be-the-industry-first-to-test-at-altoona

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Just now, dancingfatpotato said:

Lift?

It's a hydraulic lift that will lift a bus off the ground in the garage so the mechanics can work on a bus from underneath, much easier that way.

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1 hour ago, Atomic Taco said:

1108 and 1187 were on the lift today at Bellevue Base

1101 on the 246 just now

 

also it was strange to see an xcrlsior on this morning 6:30 246 run to east gate p&r normally they run a gillig

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3 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

See the link in the two posts above yours.  STB also has a good breakdown, actually better than what was heard at the press conference.

Maybe I'm missing something major, but I don't see anything in either of those sources that references nixing the proposed 180+ 40' buses that were planned for. If they're only ordering 120 battery-powered coaches by 2020, and want to dump the remaining Phantoms, they're going to have to run the 3600s a fair bit longer. 

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4 hours ago, dancingfatpotato said:

Lift?

numerous manufacturers make several different types in ground lifts for coaches, trucks, etc.

 

http://www.hoffmanservices.com/heavy-duty-lifts/inground-lifts/

These are good if you need to pull the tires off

http://www.hoffmanservices.com/heavy-duty-lifts/drive-on-lifts/

http://www.hoffmanservices.com/heavy-duty-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/

for both of these types you leave the tires on, and drive the vehicle on or off, or in the case of the mobile, you park the vehicle and place the lifts on the tires and up they go.

 

 

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At Bellevue Base they use Stertil Koni mobile lifts.  Since Bellevue Base has/had a mix of 30, 35, and 40 foot coaches you really need to have mobile jacks so that any free bay can be used to lift a bus.  On the end is a lever much like what is found on a

so they can be moved back and forth to accommodate different wheelbases.

I have a photo I'll post once I get everything sorted.

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17 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

At Bellevue Base they use Stertil Koni mobile lifts.  Since Bellevue Base has/had a mix of 30, 35, and 40 foot coaches you really need to have mobile jacks so that any free bay can be used to lift a bus.  On the end is a lever much like what is found on a

so they can be moved back and forth to accommodate different wheelbases.

I have a photo I'll post once I get everything sorted.

I wonder why the mobile lifts. You can get in-ground lifts that will adjust to lift anything from a 30-45' coach.

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10 hours ago, dancingfatpotato said:

Again today 246 ran an xcelsior on a normally gillig run what is happening to the gilligs?

What time of day was this?

There is a run on the 226/241 that does a round trip on 246 in the morning and uses a 3700

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