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53 minutes ago, Atomic Taco said:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090303053304/http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/schedules/s170_0_.html

"Boeing Industrial" refers to the Boeing buildings on and west of the King County International Airport (Boeing Field)

They used to have quite a bit of service out of there on Marginal way, They had the 175 at one point in time heading South to federal way as well. I think that was my first 1400 ride after coming home from the Museum of Flight and taking at 175 instead of a 174. I don't think nearly as many routes go through or from there. Boeing used to have a lot of covered walkways for their employees of all the plants as well.

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10 minutes ago, Atomic Taco said:

The Book has them all.

The Book (Feb 2011)

The Book (Sept 2010)

I have a few more if you need them.

The earliest "The Book" to which you linked still refers to post-Link and RapidRide A Line changes. e.g. the 48 ends at Mount Baker TC. What I'm really looking for is the headsign info from before the 2009 Link changes came into effect on September 19th. In fact, if you have versions of "The Book" from the late 90s-early 2000s (I'm talking about the time back when the 317 went up Meridian Avenue North and the 318 served Northwest Hospital), that would be fantastic.

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3 hours ago, V3112 said:

Hi,

Where can I find a resource documenting the KCM headsigns from the pre-Link era? e.g. "48 Rainier Bch via 23rd Ave", "8 MLK Walden/Capitol Hill". This resource

is from 2011, which was after the RapidRide C/D restructure but before the Link restructure (e.g. 8, 38, 34X/39, 42).

Thank you.

Speaking of the tunnel, which tunnel routes served McMicken Heights, if any? I saw a photo of a MAN SG220 on the Route 170 to McMicken Heights via Boeing Industrial, wherever the heck "Boeing Industrial" is. On Wikipedia, it says that the McMicken Heights bus is the 124, which I know goes down 3rd Avenue in Downtown, then 4th Avenue South. This is unlike its predecessor, the 174, which used the tunnel. (I assume that light rail + RapidRide A Line have covered the Seattle-SeaTac-Federal Way commuting corridor aka the old route 194, which also used the tunnel.) I guess my real question is, from route 170 to the present day, how has bus service from Downtown to McMicken Heights and "Boeing Industrial" evolved?

 

 

When did bus information in Seattle begin being posted on the internet? What was KCM's first ever website?

Regarding the destination sign dump - read that listing carefully, you'll note that the second column is offset for many of the readings. Metro doesn't release a full list like that ... some acquired a sign controller from a used coach and was able to dump the programming. 

There's some interesting stuff in there like long gone routes like the 46 as well as some *hidden* programming not listed in the book (7 Seattle Ctr E, anyone?). The sign "5 To Greenwood Via Woodland Pk" hasn't been used since 1998, when PM peak route 5 local short turns @ 85th Street were eliminated.

 

The 170 was a long time, peak commuter route to downtown Seattle dating from at least the start of Metro service (though I believe it was the 140, first). 

McMicken Hts is an area along Military Road up above Pacific Highway. This is one of many peak only transit services that made sense when Downtown Seattle was the office hub for the region, but with many other employment centers, two generations of workers have come and gone, and they don't all work downtown any more. It was replaced with the route 129 shuttle to Tukwila Int'l Blvd Stn, which was phased out due to low ridership. 

McMicken Hts is not properly served by the 124, nor was it served by the 174.

"Boeing Industrial" on the roll sign refers to Boeing Plant 2 and the assorted facilities on the West side of Boeing Field alongside East Marginal Way. There was substantially more employment in this area 15 years ago before Boeing moved their headquarters, necessitating quite a bit of peak hour service, including short turns on the 174. 

Routes 154 & 173 are the last two peak routes serving these Boeing sites, and are still signed "Boe Indus" or some such abbreviation. 

Finally, note that the 174 was only a tunnel route for a brief period - the time after the tunnel reopened in 2007 until RapidRide A started up in 2009. Before that, it was always a surface route, using 2nd + 4th Avenues.

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Its interesting that the destination sign dump reads "Sound Transit" When it's actually a King County program. Its also interesting to note that KCM has Sounder stations programmed into the head signs for bus bridges, although they seem to seldom work ones down south. I can only think of a couple of times I know of where KCM came south on unscheduled ST service. I heard once, that they ran a missed 594 trip to Tacoma, with a 2300 even I think, and for the opening of the Tacoma Dome Sounder station in 2003, ST/KCM Gillig 9000 plus a couple of other Gillis who escaped before my camera could catch them went down to TDS with a return of dignitaries from the Sounder Special trip.
 

1999 Gillig C21D102N4 Phantom #9000

1999 Gillig C21D102N4 Phantom #90001999 Gillig C21D102N4 Phantom #9000

 

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2 hours ago, V3112 said:

The earliest "The Book" to which you linked still refers to post-Link and RapidRide A Line changes. e.g. the 48 ends at Mount Baker TC. What I'm really looking for is the headsign info from before the 2009 Link changes came into effect on September 19th. In fact, if you have versions of "The Book" from the late 90s-early 2000s (I'm talking about the time back when the 317 went up Meridian Avenue North and the 318 served Northwest Hospital), that would be fantastic.

June 2007 is the oldest one I have.  Make sure to thank Oran for sharing them with me.

1 hour ago, mike from edmonton said:

First off the shot from the Space Needle, bet I can't recognize anything from that view today

The AGC building and (now) MOHAI are about the only two things that look the same

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1 hour ago, mike from edmonton said:

Found a few of my old antique shots from Seattle in 1976, a pocket Argus 116, scans are from the actual photo, so quality is well...

First off the shot from the Space Needle, bet I can't recognize anything from that view today

My first ACF trolley coach, excuse the angle

An Old Look, the old downtown with another trolley coach

seattle1976bca.JPG

metro646a.1976.r.jpg

seattle1976acJPG.JPG

seattle1976cca.JPG

Thank you so much for sharing those photos, Mike!!  

Yes, that shot from the Space Needle is the old North Seattle Station (later renamed Mercer Base).  I was working out of that barn in 1976.  As I mentioned in a previous post, it is now the location of the Gates Foundation.  I can see a few AMGs in the photo.  Those were brand new at the time and North Seattle was the first barn where they were put in service.  I have to assume it was at the time when enough of the AMGs had been put in service to completely get rid of the 100s as I fail to see any 100s in the photo.

My first time driving one of the new AMGs was on a short tripper on the route 30 --then called Ballard-U which was essentially the 44 that went into and wound around Laurelhust and was a very busy route with very frequent headway ...in the old Seattle Transit days, routes were named and weren't necessarily known by numbered routes internally so to the employees, they were referred to as "Ballard-U" instead of route 30, or "Latona" instead of 26, or "Greenlake" instead of 6/16, or "Roosevelt" instead of 22, or "Sunset Hill" instead of 17, or "Eastlake" instead of route 7 (the 7 route not only serviced Rainier Avenue but also was through-routed and traveled along Eastlake to the U-District and then on to three separate legs as it left University Way), etc., etc.   Metro kept that tradition for the first several years and then in 1976/1977, started to break away from many of the old Seattle Transit nomenclature and traditions.  

For some reason that day sticks in my mind as I remember that there was such a hodge-podge of equipment on the Ballard-U that particular day ...100s, 200s, 800s, and a few AMGs.  100s were usually the mainstay during the day base.  To see a 100 along with an AMG operating the same route was an interesting sight to me.   

And jeez, that photo of 5th and Pine brings back so many memories in a lot of ways.  The first road relief I ever made as a driver (my first week on the job) was at that corner.  The 26 route used to come south on 5th and make a right turn on Pine and then a left on 2nd.  Road reliefs on "Latona" were made at the nearside bus zone at 5th and Pine (the lower left corner of your photo but can't be seen) and would then be through-routed as a 42 Empire Way (now known as MLK) so immediately after making a road relief, we'd turn right on Pine (change the roller signs at the zone farside 4th and Pine (Bon Marche zone) --from my recollection that was the official sign-changing location, and then turn left on second.

The other reason is that I worked at the old Frederick and Nelson department store in high school.  It was my first real job.  And a job I had to actually wear a suit to work.  Those were the days.  I long for the old Fredericks  ...and there in that photo is the Frederick and Nelson as I remember it. 

You can't imagine how much I appreciate those photos!!   This sounds corny but I will cherish them.  Thanks so much.

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That is an awesome shot of the old mercer base. I have seen shots of the different levels, but I don't think I have seen one that shows how they were arranged like that, or atleast not in a long time. #646 is a 1944 Pullman 44CX, original to Seattle Transit as 996. It was renumbered to #646 in 1971, and It was later scrapped. The 173 is now gone as well. It's just the 124 and 154 that serve Boeing Industrial.

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As my LAST video of the year, here's a video of MEHVA's 1976 AM General on the Christmas Lights tour on the night of December 10th!

to everybody on here, have a WONDERFUL and HAPPY New Year, please be safe, and looking forward to 2017, see you all then :)

My Youtube Channel:

www.youtube.com/pnwelevator

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19 hours ago, busdude.com said:

They used to have quite a bit of service out of there on Marginal way, They had the 175 at one point in time heading South to federal way as well. I think that was my first 1400 ride after coming home from the Museum of Flight and taking at 175 instead of a 174. 

That would have been the 173... 175 was a tunnel route unti about 1997, then came out and had some 1400s until they were retired on the surface but always operated via I-5.

20 hours ago, Atomic Taco said:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090303053304/http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/schedules/s170_0_.html

"Boeing Industrial" refers to the Boeing buildings on and west of the King County International Airport (Boeing Field)

Route 170 was rerouted to operate via Airport Way on the East side of Boeing Field in 1998. King County, recently having taken over Metro, wanted more transit service to their airport facility on the east side. The 170, plus a reverse peak route 129 from Tukwila, provided that service. 

It was, as you'd expect, lightly used. 

When the 170 shifted, the signage was changed to Via King Co. Airport on electronic signs, and either Blank or Via Airport Way if a 1400 (roller sign coach) was assigned.

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On 12/28/2016 at 1:47 AM, aznichiro115 said:

The dates are the first day of shake up not the end. This is based off old schedules i have kept.

June 1996: 107 in

Sept 1996: 107 out.

May 1997:190 in, 253 in

Sept 1997: 253 out, 226 was in

Feb 1998: 195/227/258 was still in

May 1998: 227 no longer exists on 212,225,229 schedule.

Sept 1998: 190/195 in

June 2001: 258 in

I have also heard of a route 90 which ran as a tunnel circular.

 

The Renton restructure in Sept 1996 was the first major restructure of the "six year plan." This saw both routes 106 and 107 lose their Renton Highlands tails, and route 107 terminate at Rainier Beach. Route 101, which was new at the time, replaced route 107 in the tunnel. 

The Sept 1997 restructure was the eastside restructure of the "six year plan." In addition to truncating the 253 at Bellevue Transit Center - previously, Bellevue bound passengers could chose between the 253 in the tunnel Via SR-520, or a combined 226/226 Express/235 (Via Beaux Arts) service on 2nd Avenue, there were many other changes. The longest lasting change was the combination of the 273/274, into a trunk 271 route, which is now a heavy hauler across the 520 bridge. So yes, at this time, the 226 and 226 Express (which was eliminated about a year later) moved into the tunnel. 

I believe when the 190 and 195 went into the tunnel in Sept 1998 (?), they replaced the 175 W. Federal Way, which was already suffering from declining ridership. The 175 was in the tunnel from the early 1990s until 1998.

The 227 was replaced in May 1998 by additional Eastgate-Overlake local service on the 222. The 225/227/229 were legacy routes from when Metro first started (similar to the 175), when Metro felt they needed to just "throw some bus routes" out to serve the county. Interestingly enough, the 227 had the most potential, but also overlapped with the 222, and was replaced with increased 212 + 222 trips. The 225/229 should have gotten whacked at that time, but they continued to be dogs for another decade. 

Regarding the 258, I believe it lasted in the tunnel until tunnel closure in 2005. 

 

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23 minutes ago, northwesterner said:

The Sept 1997 restructure was the eastside restructure of the "six year plan." In addition to truncating the 253 at Bellevue Transit Center previously, Bellevue bound passengers could chose between the 253 in the tunnel Via SR-520, or a combined 226/226 Express/235 (Via Beaux Arts) service on 2nd Avenue, there were many other changes. The longest lasting change was the combination of the 273/274, into a trunk 271 route, which is now a heavy hauler across the 520 bridge. So yes, at this time, the 226 and 226 Express (which was eliminated about a year later) moved into the tunnel. 

I believe when the 190 and 195 went into the tunnel in Sept 1998 (?), they replaced the 175 W. Federal Way, which was already suffering from declining ridership. The 175 was in the tunnel from the early 1990s until 1998.

The 226/226 Express became ST 550 in 1999 correct? I cant remember if It rolled out with the first ST shakeup in Sept 99 though, but I seem to think it did along with the 570, 574, and absorbed 59x series. Didn't some of the 510/511/512s start at this time as well?

175 was the one that was the 903 tail tacked onto a service to seattle? Was 187 the other one that went down towards Twin lakes? my old copies of the book are packed up right now otherwise i'd go look.

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1 hour ago, busdude.com said:

The 226/226 Express became ST 550 in 1999 correct? I cant remember if It rolled out with the first ST shakeup in Sept 99 though, but I seem to think it did along with the 570, 574, and absorbed 59x series. Didn't some of the 510/511/512s start at this time as well?

175 was the one that was the 903 tail tacked onto a service to seattle? Was 187 the other one that went down towards Twin lakes? my old copies of the book are packed up right now otherwise i'd go look.

According to this Sound Transit press release from 1999, the 510/511/512/513, 530/531/532, 535, 565, 570, 574, 591/592/594, 590/595 and 550 all began around the same time.

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1 hour ago, busdude.com said:

The 226/226 Express became ST 550 in 1999 correct? I cant remember if It rolled out with the first ST shakeup in Sept 99 though, but I seem to think it did along with the 570, 574, and absorbed 59x series. Didn't some of the 510/511/512s start at this time as well?

175 was the one that was the 903 tail tacked onto a service to seattle? Was 187 the other one that went down towards Twin lakes? my old copies of the book are packed up right now otherwise i'd go look.

Yes, 226 became the 550 the same shakeup when ST started. They did, however, fund some additional trips on the 226 the previous year, and most East Base Bredas received a small ST logo by the door as a result of this funding. 

The 226 Express was killed in between when the route moved into the tunnel, and before the 550 started.

One of the old Metro employee newsletters from the mid 90s has a piece about an old East Base driver who picked 226 runs that did PM Peak Express trips for years. His passengers, on hearing of his impending retirement, had a T-shirt printed for him that said "226 Express, No Stops On Mercer Island" which was apparently his announcement leaving downtown. 

Well, the 175 existed long before the 903, but yes - it was the "West Federal Way" route that served Dash Point road, etc. A long time part time operator that is a mutual friend of ours drove the 175 its last shakeup, he was carrying about 5 people on his trip into the Dash Point loop. Service hours would have been much better spent beefing the 903 up to 15 minute peak service and forcing a transfer at Federal Way Transit Center.

IIRC, the 187 was the Twin Lakes coach - after a 1998ish reorganization. Something else went down there before that (the 181 maybe?)...

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Thank you Atomic Taco, Zack/Busdude and northwesterner for your detailed information about McMicken Heights, the plants near Boeing Field, and letting me know that the 174 was a 2nd/4th route and not a tunnel route like I thought. And double kudos to you, Atomic Taco, for pointing me to a 2007 employee guidebook! I've already thanked Oran via Twitter.

I find the history of King County Metro routes to be extremely interesting. I've found myself trawling back numbers of CPTDB threads, STB, Busdude's photos, etc. to find nuggets of Seattle transit history. e.g. the old 26 (42 -> Dearborn -> 3rd -> Dexter -> Fremont Bridge -> N 35th -> Wallingford/40th -> Latona/Thackeray) has its history in the old "26 Latona-42 Empire" interline from the 1970s (and used 40 foot coaches; the 26 being an artic route is a relatively recent development. I've seen photos of Americanas signed up for the 26); and the 1/2/3/4/13 are derived from the original streetcar network in Queen Anne; and back in the 80s, the Forty-Late turned off MLK (back when it was known as Empire Way South) onto Rainier Avenue South at Franklin HS, then turned onto Alaska for the WSB (old 39), then went all the way to South Seatle CC (125). It's amazing how much of an intertwined history Seattle's bus routes have.

By the way, some more questions that popped in my head today (Thursday):

  • Why did the 36 go from being operated by AMG trolleys, to being operated by AMG trolleys + D60s, then by Gillig trolleys + D60s/DE60LFs, then by Breda trolleys + DE60LFs, then back to XT40s? Why no SGT310s or XT60s?
  • Why isn't the trolley fleet utilized on weekends? The last time I was in Seattle, it was a Saturday, and I saw Orion VIIs on the 3/4 (First Hill shared section) and DE60LFs on the 44.
  • Is/was it common for diesel artics like D60s or XDE60s to be used on less-frequent trolley routes (1, 2, 3, 4, pre-U Link 10, 12, pre-U Link 14)?
  • Did urban routes ever get served with pre-D60 artics like the SG220/SG310? e.g. I've seen old photos of Americanas on the 26; up until the U Link extension, it was a route known for its utilization of what pnwelevator calls "big bad beasts". Or were the SG220s and SG310s restricted to suburban use only?
  • Is there any rhyme or reason to which bases serve which areas? Some like East Base, South Base and Bellevue Base are more obvious, and Atlantic Base is a trolley-only base, but what about Central, Ryerson and North? Is there a demarcation between which bases serve urban routes and which serve suburban/commuter routes that aren't necessarily in far-flung areas (e.g. 120, 316)?
  • Why is bus service in Northgate north of NSCC (this includes Haller Lake) a colossal bowl of suckage? Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, my family and I would visit a relative who lived near 115th and Corliss. This is back when the 307/308/317/318 existed. All those routes have long been discontinued. Today, to get this area (115th/Corliss) to downtown Seattle without a car, your options are:
    • The 316 (peak-only), the only bus to go down Meridian
    • Walk across the overpass over I-5 and catch a 41 on 5th Avenue Northeast
    • Walk all the way to Aurora and catch a RapidRide E Line bus

And one more question, that's not related to buses, but is related to urban development: how long do you think it will be before areas like Northgate, LFP/North City, White Center, Highline/Des Moines, and Skyway undergo explosive development and see average rents soar, just like what happened to SLU, and like what's happening in Fremont, Wallingford, and Ballard?

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On 1/3/2017 at 8:00 PM, V3112 said:

By the way, some more questions that popped in my head today (Thursday):

  • Why did the 36 go from being operated by AMG trolleys, to being operated by AMG trolleys + D60s, then by Gillig trolleys + D60s/DE60LFs, then by Breda trolleys + DE60LFs, then back to XT40s? Why no SGT310s or XT60s?

36 used to be connected to route 1, half of the trips, the artic ones, would end in downtown. the trolley ones would continue to the 1. the MAN trolleys rarely if ever went up Queen Anne. I didn't see Bredas on 36 until it was split from rt 1. not sure why the XT60s do not run on it.  

  • Why isn't the trolley fleet utilized on weekends? The last time I was in Seattle, it was a Saturday, and I saw Orion VIIs on the 3/4 (First Hill shared section) and DE60LFs on the 44.

Construction mainly

  • Is/was it common for diesel artics like D60s or XDE60s to be used on less-frequent trolley routes (1, 2, 3, 4, pre-U Link 10, 12, pre-U Link 14)?

No, I have never seen it.

  • Did urban routes ever get served with pre-D60 artics like the SG220/SG310? e.g. I've seen old photos of Americanas on the 26; up until the U Link extension, it was a route known for its utilization of what pnwelevator calls "big bad beasts". Or were the SG220s and SG310s restricted to suburban use only?

Yes, the diesel MANs ran urban routes. 7,36 on weekends. But i do think they were mainly suburban. but the percentage of artics in the fleet is up now compared to when the MANs ran. Pre D60HF the only artics were 1400s, 2000s and the Bredas combined at their max only makes 589. currently D60HF, D60LF, DE60LF, DE60LFR, XDE60, including the RapidRides makes 752, there are a lot more artics now. 

  • Is there any rhyme or reason to which bases serve which areas? Some like East Base, South Base and Bellevue Base are more obvious, and Atlantic Base is a trolley-only base, but what about Central, Ryerson and North? Is there a demarcation between which bases serve urban routes and which serve suburban/commuter routes that aren't necessarily in far-flung areas (e.g. 120, 316)?

No not really

 

 

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Construction used to be an issue with the trolleys on the weekend, but shouldn't the emergency power units resolve that issue?

On that note, I always heard that Metro stressed not using the EPU batteries unless absolutely necessary - however you can frequently see out of service XT trolleys cruising down 3rd avenue off wire. 

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On 1/3/2017 at 8:00 PM, V3112 said:

Thank you Atomic Taco, Zack/Busdude and northwesterner for your detailed information about McMicken Heights, the plants near Boeing Field, and letting me know that the 174 was a 2nd/4th route and not a tunnel route like I thought. And double kudos to you, Atomic Taco, for pointing me to a 2007 employee guidebook! I've already thanked Oran via Twitter.

I find the history of King County Metro routes to be extremely interesting. I've found myself trawling back numbers of CPTDB threads, STB, Busdude's photos, etc. to find nuggets of Seattle transit history. e.g. the old 26 (42 -> Dearborn -> 3rd -> Dexter -> Fremont Bridge -> N 35th -> Wallingford/40th -> Latona/Thackeray) has its history in the old "26 Latona-42 Empire" interline from the 1970s (and used 40 foot coaches; the 26 being an artic route is a relatively recent development. I've seen photos of Americanas signed up for the 26); and the 1/2/3/4/13 are derived from the original streetcar network in Queen Anne; and back in the 80s, the Forty-Late turned off MLK (back when it was known as Empire Way South) onto Rainier Avenue South at Franklin HS, then turned onto Alaska for the WSB (old 39), then went all the way to South Seatle CC (125). It's amazing how much of an intertwined history Seattle's bus routes have.

By the way, some more questions that popped in my head today (Thursday):

  • Why did the 36 go from being operated by AMG trolleys, to being operated by AMG trolleys + D60s, then by Gillig trolleys + D60s/DE60LFs, then by Breda trolleys + DE60LFs, then back to XT40s? Why no SGT310s or XT60s?

As noted above, route 36 has was never "only" operated by AMG trolleys. Going back through the 80s, the 36 short turn (first at Dawson Street, then, from 2000-on, Othello St) was operated with trolley coaches. For many years the pattern was every 20 minutes with a trolley short turn, and every 20 minutes with a diesel, continuing to Rainier Beach for a combined 10 minutes base headway. The diesels were a mix of artic and standard for many years. 

In your timeline above, there was no point where all service on the 36 was with articulated vehicles ("Breda trolleys + DE60LFs). The assignment of artic trolleys to the 36 started after the Rainier Beach trips went away in a reorganization and all runs terminated at Othello Station. It was specific trips only, to handle specific busy loads. However, on a route that runs a 5 minute peak headway, these were only somewhat useful, as bunching becomes a problem with tight headways. It appears the artic trolleys went away in order to provide enough vehicles to make the 70 100% artic, all the time. 

The MAN artic trolleys did make appearances on the 36 on rare occasions. I rode one, once, circa 1999. They were not regularly assigned equipment.

  • Why isn't the trolley fleet utilized on weekends? The last time I was in Seattle, it was a Saturday, and I saw Orion VIIs on the 3/4 (First Hill shared section) and DE60LFs on the 44

As noted, construction. I'm hearing rumblings that there are concerns about operators going out in the street repeatedly to put the poles back up if they have to use ESS to go around construction sites. I'd like to see the city take a harder approach to when they permit construction projects to turn off the trolley overhead (for instance, we're going on 18 months now for a project at 2nd and Virginia that regularly has the overhead turned off. Are they actually working on the exterior of that building every single weekend?). 

  • Is/was it common for diesel artics like D60s or XDE60s to be used on less-frequent trolley routes (1, 2, 3, 4, pre-U Link 10, 12, pre-U Link 14)

No. Extremely rare.

  • Did urban routes ever get served with pre-D60 artics like the SG220/SG310? e.g. I've seen old photos of Americanas on the 26; up until the U Link extension, it was a route known for its utilization of what pnwelevator calls "big bad beasts". Or were the SG220s and SG310s restricted to suburban use only?

Yes, the MAN artics were regulars on the city routes. IIRC the majority of the 2000s were assigned to Central/Ryerson/North Bases operated on urban City of Seattle routes. The 1400s, which were geared for the freeway and not W/C accessible were primarily used on suburban routes. Ryerson Base last operated a batch of about 10 in 1996 on select trippers. After that, they were not to be seen on urban routes again.

  • Is there any rhyme or reason to which bases serve which areas? Some like East Base, South Base and Bellevue Base are more obvious, and Atlantic Base is a trolley-only base, but what about Central, Ryerson and North? Is there a demarcation between which bases serve urban routes and which serve suburban/commuter routes that aren't necessarily in far-flung areas (e.g. 120, 316)?

Geography, mostly. Until about 10 years ago, most of the routes at Central and Ryerson had operated at those bases for decades. There was the occasional swap over, but that was rare. The major restructures we've seen in the city have changed the calculus, and its much harder to track the history of which route is at which base. North Base serves routes that are primarily north of the ship canal. Again, Geography.

  • Why is bus service in Northgate north of NSCC (this includes Haller Lake) a colossal bowl of suckage? Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, my family and I would visit a relative who lived near 115th and Corliss. This is back when the 307/308/317/318 existed. All those routes have long been discontinued. Today, to get this area (115th/Corliss) to downtown Seattle without a car, your options are:
    • The 316 (peak-only), the only bus to go down Meridian
    • Walk across the overpass over I-5 and catch a 41 on 5th Avenue Northeast
    • Walk all the way to Aurora and catch a RapidRide E Line bu

The 345/346 serve the stops at 115th and Meridian with a combined 15 minute headway on weekdays. Its a quick trip to Northgate, where one can transfer to a myriad of destinations on other, frequent routes. Seems pretty decent to me given its a relatively low density area.

 

 

10 hours ago, aznichiro115 said:

Yes, the diesel MANs ran urban routes. 7,36 on weekends. But i do think they were mainly suburban. but the percentage of artics in the fleet is up now compared to when the MANs ran. Pre D60HF the only artics were 1400s, 2000s and the Bredas combined at their max only makes 589. currently D60HF, D60LF, DE60LF, DE60LFR, XDE60, including the RapidRides makes 752, there are a lot more artics now. 

Diesel MANs ran all over the city on day base runs, not just on the 7 dieselized weekends (note the 2000s on the diesel 36 were the assigned equipment on weekends). They provided 100% of the day base service on the 5/54/55 for many years, as well as a lot of the service of other routes (15/18/21/22/56, 16/21, 19/24/136/137, 48, etc).

A roster I have from Nov 98 shows 555 artics out of 1304 vehicles on property, 42.5% of the fleet. 

Metro currently has about 1420 coaches that are "Metro only" on property. (For apples, to apples, though, you should add in the ST equipment... 80-100 more coaches? Someone help me out here...).

Of the Metro only coaches, 745ish are artics. That gives a 56% of fleet ratio. Add the ST ones into the whole, its even higher. 

So yes, the ratio of artics has gone up. But the increase of them in the city comes because we are seeing alot more day base routes running all day with artics, where as 10-20 years ago, there were lots of peak suburban trippers running with artics. Many of these have disappeared due to commute pattern changes, South Sounder, and kicking loser routes that never should have been in the tunnel out of the tunnel. 

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Updated List of Remaining 40' Diesel Gillig Phantoms as of Friday 1/6/17 According to OneBusAway.

* Indicates East Base Phantom

3220, 3237*, 3259, 3260, 3275, 3302, 3316, 3321, 3333, 3337, 3340, 3357*, 3383, 3392, 3397, 3421, 3426, 3430, 3449, 3459, 3485, 3486, 3500, 3508, 3514, 3516, 3519, 3530, 3531, 3534*, 3541*, 3560, 3581*, 3586

3341 has been sold to Pullman Transit, got confromation from a PT Driver via youtube.

3314, 3386, 3391, 3416, 3422, 3453, 3490, and 3542 have shown up as "Vehicle Not Found" for at least a few months.

I will have an updated list of the remaining active 30' Phantoms soon, as well as the D60s.

www.youtube.com/pnwelevator

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52 minutes ago, pnwelevator said:

Updated List of Remaining 40' Diesel Gillig Phantoms as of Friday 1/6/17 According to OneBusAway.

* Indicates East Base Phantom

3220, 3237*, 3259, 3260, 3275, 3302, 3316, 3321, 3333, 3337, 3340, 3357*, 3383, 3392, 3397, 3421, 3426, 3430, 3449, 3459, 3485, 3486, 3500, 3508, 3514, 3516, 3519, 3530, 3531, 3534*, 3541*, 3560, 3581*, 3586

3341 has been sold to Pullman Transit, got confromation from a PT Driver via youtube.

3314, 3386, 3391, 3416, 3422, 3453, 3490, and 3542 have shown up as "Vehicle Not Found" for at least a few months.

I will have an updated list of the remaining active 30' Phantoms soon, as well as the D60s.

www.youtube.com/pnwelevator

Updated List of Remaining 30' Phantoms as of 1/61/17 According to OneBusAway.

1100, 1103, 1104, 1113, 1114, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1120, 1122, 1125, 1129, 1131, 1133, 1135, 1138, 1139, 1142, 1143, 1154, 1156, 1160, 1168, 1169, 1187, and 1192.

All at Bellevue Base

1101, 1105, 1108, 1127, 1174, and 1180 are listed as "Vehicle Not Found"

 

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Updated List of Remaining New Flyer D60's as of 1/6/17 According to OneBusAway.

* Ryerson  ^South  +North

2301*, 2302*, 2309*, 2312^, 2313+, 2314*, 2317*, 2319*, 2320*, 2323*, 2324*, 2325*, 2327*, 2333+, 2337+, 2339*, 2344+, 2346+, 2350+, 2352+, 2353+, 2356+, 2361^, 2362^, 2364^, 2367^, 2368^, 2369^, 2370^, 2374+, 2375^, 2376^, 2377^, 2378^, 2379^, 2382+, 2383+, 2384+, 2385+, 2389*, 2393^, 2394^, 2395^, 2396^, 2397^, 2399^, 2402+, 2408^, 2410^, 2412^, 2414^, 2424*, 2425*, 2438+, 2448*, 2458*, 2461*, 2462*, 2464*, 2465*, 2468^, 2469^, 2470^, 2471^, 2475*, 2480*, 2482*, 2488*, 2491*, 2497*, 2500^, 2503+, 2505+, 2506+, 2510^, 2511^, 2512*, 2513*, 2516^, 2520*, 2523*, 2524^, 2525*, 2526*, 2529^, 2530*, 2532*, 2533^, 2534*, 2535*, 2541*, 2545*, 2546*, 2552*, 2554*, 2555*, 2561*, 2562^, 2564*, 2569^, 2571^, and 2573*

2304, 2308, 2316, and 2572 are listed as "Vehicle Not Found"

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I have been seeing at least one or two phantom 40's per weekday on route 236/238, which is a route that usually uses all phantom 30's and xde35's. Why are phantom 40's starting to show up more on that route?

It seems like Bellevue does not have enough xde35's to eventually replace all of the remaining 1100's, since 3708, 3709, 3724, 3726, 3729 and 3731 have been moved to south base. Also, I've noticed that there are no green xde35's at Bellevue. What will eventually replace all of the 30 or so remaining Bellevue Base 1100's if there are only 14 xde35's currently at Bellevue? Also, why does East only have the '08/09 DE60LF's and DE60LFR's? I sure do miss, but remember having and riding the '04 DE60LF's and D60's back at East, back from 2011 or so.

And I've also noticed that DE60LF's 6856, 6859-6864, and DE60LFR's 6900-6903, 6936 and 6959 have been moved from east to south within the last few months. East now only has a total of about 84 artics, which is why there might occasionally be Sound Transit artics on the Metro East Base routes. I was surprised to see Sound Transit BRT diesel 9126 on the 212 once last month.

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