King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

[Guest]

Why was the XDE40 New Flyer 7250 was in Bellevue Base? It's already belonged to the South Base. check on one bus away app on route 240.

[aznichiro115]

7250 doesn't belong to south base they don't own that bus, KCM owns that bus, and they will put it at what ever base they want.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, aznichiro115 said:

7250 doesn't belong to south base they don't own that bus, KCM owns that bus, and they will put it at what ever base they want.

do they put it as temporary. and they sometimes switch bases around. is that what it is?

[busdude.com]

8 hours ago, clarkwang96 said:

do they put it as temporary. and they sometimes switch bases around. is that what it is?

Maybe, or perhaps an EB bus broke down and SB was able to get replacement vehicle there quickly so it got put on the EB run and returned to EB and just hasn't found its way back yet. Maybe someone at EB decided they liked that bus better and traded for it with another base, or maybe that bus is a piece of junk and SB was able to dump it off on EB. Maybe it has some modification on it that SB installed and its making the rounds to gather input. Could be lots of reasons.

[northwesterner]

Considering a shake-up occurred on Saturday, it seems likely that the vehicle requirements were adjusted slightly and South kicked one 7200 back to Bellevue Base.

But yeah, as busdude.com notes above, there can be lots and lots of reasons for a vehicle shift.

Example: Except for one or two Gilligs from the 1999 order that ended up being shuffled to Ryerson Base for a couple weeks immediately before they were retired, the only 1999 Gillig to be assigned to Ryerson Base was 3558 (I think that was the number). Why? Because circa 2001, it was one of a handful of coaches equipped with security cameras. It was sent to Ryerson for testing and feedback on Ryerson Base routes, and operated out of that base for probably close to three months. 

Then it went back to Central with the rest of that batch of Gilligs, and Ryerson didn't get another one from the 1999 order until, as I noted above, they were shuffling vehicles through as retirements occurred.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, busdude.com said:

Maybe, or perhaps an EB bus broke down and SB was able to get replacement vehicle there quickly so it got put on the EB run and returned to EB and just hasn't found its way back yet. Maybe someone at EB decided they liked that bus better and traded for it with another base, or maybe that bus is a piece of junk and SB was able to dump it off on EB. Maybe it has some modification on it that SB installed and its making the rounds to gather input. Could be lots of reasons.

After it's been fixed, will they put the 7250 back to the South Base?

Can't they move 3558 to Bellevue Base? Or is it retired?

But eventually they will order more buses around next year or so and might have to move some XDE40s 7200s to different bases. Maybe North, Central, Ryerson or South, but don't know yet?

[Atomic Taco]

13 minutes ago, clarkwang96 said:

After it's been fixed, will they put the 7250 back to the South Base?

What broke?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Atomic Taco said:

What broke?

One of the buses at East Base I think but quote someone else who said that.

19 minutes ago, Atomic Taco said:

What broke?

Quote bus dude. And ask him.

12 hours ago, busdude.com said:

Maybe, or perhaps an EB bus broke down and SB was able to get replacement vehicle there quickly so it got put on the EB run and returned to EB and just hasn't found its way back yet. Maybe someone at EB decided they liked that bus better and traded for it with another base, or maybe that bus is a piece of junk and SB was able to dump it off on EB. Maybe it has some modification on it that SB installed and its making the rounds to gather input. Could be lots of reasons.

Which bus at the East Base broke down, was it one of the Gillig Phantoms?

[caseyrs77]

21 hours ago, clarkwang96 said:

do they put it as temporary. and they sometimes switch bases around. is that what it is?

Clarkwang.... Why does all this matter anyway? Metro moves equipment around all the time. It just happens, for a lot of reasons.

When I got to Bellevue Base this morning, I checked and 7250 and 7251 are back at Bellevue Base this shakeup. Not sure why, not sure if they traded SB any 3700's or if Bellevue Base just needed two more buses to keep up with  maintenance work, who knows. But that's the facts, BB has 52, SB has 8 7200's. I'm just happy that two came to BB, because my one day a week driving a 3200 on 271 on Wednesdays that I picked, got switched to a 7200, so it benefited me.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, caseyrs77 said:

Clarkwang.... Why does all this matter anyway? Metro moves equipment around all the time. It just happens, for a lot of reasons.

When I got to Bellevue Base this morning, I checked and 7250 and 7251 are back at Bellevue Base this shakeup. Not sure why, not sure if they traded SB any 3700's or if Bellevue Base just needed two more buses to keep up with  maintenance work, who knows. But that's the facts, BB has 52, SB has 8 7200's. I'm just happy that two came to BB, because my one day a week driving a 3200 on 271 on Wednesdays that I picked, got switched to a 7200, so it benefited me.

Oh they just move around for reasons huh. What do u mean shake up?

[northwesterner]

1 hour ago, clarkwang96 said:

After it's been fixed, will they put the 7250 back to the South Base?

Can't they move 3558 to Bellevue Base? Or is it retired?

 

It would be really helpful if you actually read and understood the replies to your earlier comments. 

These endless questions that don't reflect an understanding of the context of the previous answers are pointless.

[RapidRideTy]

3 hours ago, caseyrs77 said:

Clarkwang.... Why does all this matter anyway? Metro moves equipment around all the time. It just happens, for a lot of reasons.

When I got to Bellevue Base this morning, I checked and 7250 and 7251 are back at Bellevue Base this shakeup. Not sure why, not sure if they traded SB any 3700's or if Bellevue Base just needed two more buses to keep up with  maintenance work, who knows. But that's the facts, BB has 52, SB has 8 7200's. I'm just happy that two came to BB, because my one day a week driving a 3200 on 271 on Wednesdays that I picked, got switched to a 7200, so it benefited me.

Kinda nice getting a new coach. 

3 hours ago, clarkwang96 said:

Oh they just move around for reasons huh. What do u mean shake up?

Yes. 

And shake up means when we change up our work, i.e. drivers pick new routes. Sometimes routes go to different bases like the 214 going from East to Central.

2 hours ago, northwesterner said:

It would be really helpful if you actually read and understood the replies to your earlier comments. 

These endless questions that don't reflect an understanding of the context of the previous answers are pointless.

Life of a bus driver... answering the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... I lost track...

[anonymous guy]

1 hour ago, RapidRideTy said:

Life of a bus driver... answering the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... I lost track...

Reminds me of this:

 

[aznichiro115]

On a somewhat related note, were the ZERO changes in this June shake up, or was it purely internal for picking new routes for drivers? because schedules says they are good until September 9th and Metro hasn't posted anything.  

[northwesterner]

12 minutes ago, aznichiro115 said:

On a somewhat related note, were the ZERO changes in this June shake up, or was it purely internal for picking new routes for drivers? because schedules says they are good until September 9th and Metro hasn't posted anything.  

Driver's only. Conceivably they could change the way the runs are cut and did, I believe make a few minor changes. However, no schedule changes for customers.

[rickycourtney]

For quite a while there's been three annual shake-ups in February, June and September.

This year most of the agencies in the Puget Sound area transitioned to doing two annual shake-ups in March and September. But I find it interesting that Metro still did this quiet shake-up.

One interesting thing I've noticed, coach 6035, which is one of the 2011 RapidRide coaches that had been assigned to East base for the B Line is now at Atlantic/Central and was out on the C Line tonight.

[northwesterner]

2 hours ago, rickycourtney said:

For quite a while there's been three annual shake-ups in February, June and September.

This year most of the agencies in the Puget Sound area transitioned to doing two annual shake-ups in March and September. But I find it interesting that Metro still did this quiet shake-up.

 

Short story is the operators still wanted three shake-ups a year.

[roamer]

Since I haven't given much attention to any contract negotiations for years (over a decade now), was this pick issue addressed at all in the contract language and/or negotiated at all?  

The reason I ask is that several decades ago, I don't remember the exact time frame but I'm guessing perhaps in the 80s, Metro pushed the idea of a "division pick" which made sense to me but the Union was adamantly against it and it never was instituted during my time of being employed there.  From what I was told at the time, many/most of the larger transit agencies use it (i.e. New York, L.A., Chicago, etc.).  As an example, it's where a driver picks a "division" --or in the case of Metro, a base-- for a one year period and then the division/base has INTRA-base shake-ups, for example, twice during that year for a period lasting four months.  Once a year, a driver can then change divisions/bases.  

The two reason it made sense to me and also from a management standpoint is that:

1.  less costs going toward driver qualifications --both on routes and equipment
2.  manpower planning efficiency would be greatly enhanced which would a) reduce mandatory overtime (but a negative for those wanting overtime), and b ) reduce if not eliminate the need for forced inter-base assignments on the extra-board (something most board operators vehemently despised ...but around the time I left, they did have designated board and report operators who volunteered for inter-base assignments).

The main reason the Union was opposed to this "division pick" (and also the majority of members except for the very high seniority) was because of vacation seniority.    An operator picks their vacation by seniority once each year.  However, since operators can change bases during the year, it makes it difficult if not impossible for management to precisely plan for manpower needs from shake-up to shake-up thus resulting in possible manpower shortages at certain bases and at certain times of the year.  

An example, East Base back in the 1980s was considered the high-seniority base.  High seniority operators typically pick their vacations during "prime-time" blocks which mostly but not exclusively are in the summer months.  Therefore, East Base was often short of operators during the summer shake-up.  Conversely, the low seniority bases might be short of operators during other times of the year.  

In a "division pick," vacations are picked by base and would be spread out during the year evenly by base so in theory, no base should experience a manpower shortage from shake-up to shake-up.  However, at East Base for example, some operators who are able to pick prime-time vacation would under a "division system" be unable to do so.  This always seemed to be the reason the Union continued to fight against such a system.  Some operators also seemed to balk at being forced to stay at one base for a full year.

With that background, can somebody fill me in on exactly what is being done currently pertaining to how operators now pick assignments/vacations and also if it was a negotiated item?  If you'd like to PM me, that's fine as I understand this topic will not interest most of the participants here in this thread.  Thanks

[punkrawker4783]

On June 22, 2016 at 9:56 PM, rickycourtney said:

For quite a while there's been three annual shake-ups in February, June and September.

This year most of the agencies in the Puget Sound area transitioned to doing two annual shake-ups in March and September. But I find it interesting that Metro still did this quiet shake-up.

One interesting thing I've noticed, coach 6035, which is one of the 2011 RapidRide coaches that had been assigned to East base for the B Line is now at Atlantic/Central and was out on the C Line tonight.

Due to the successful Fallback system in place on the B line, VM was comfortable giving away 2 buses.  The fallbacks freed up equipment.

[rickycourtney]

5 hours ago, punkrawker4783 said:

Due to the successful Fallback system in place on the B line, VM was comfortable giving away 2 buses.  The fallbacks freed up equipment.

Enlighten me... what's the fallback system?

[caseyrs77]

1 hour ago, rickycourtney said:

Enlighten me... what's the fallback system?

 A fallback is when the bus or train, in this case the bus, is scheduled for a very short turnaround, and in order to give the operator more break time, the operator will "fall back" onto the next arriving bus. Once the operator has relieved the operator from the next bus, that operator will wait around at Bellevue transit center and relieve the operator on the next arriving bus. And so on and so on. 

When Link initially started in 2009, and was running to TIBS only, the majority of the day a fallback system was in place, allowing light rail operators the opportunity to have a break and access to restroom facilities, due to no facilities being close by to the platform.  Every operator would be relieved as they arrived TIBS, and would have time to run downstairs to the restroom and then back up by the time the next train arrived to take over.

A system like this, operating on the B Line, allows the scheduler to run the same service with one less bus, saving service hours and essentially miles and wear and tear on one last bus.

However, in this case I would not say that fallbacks are allowing East Base to give up two RR buses, because all fallbacks are taking place off-peak, between morning and afternoon rush hours only, when there are several available buses parked at the base between trippers. There is still a need for the same number of RR coaches during peak hour, whether there is off-peak fallbacks or not. I think Downtown just needed RR equipment more, and took a couple of what East would consider "spares" and that is why you're seeing at least one, sometimes two 6800/6900's out on the B Line much more often lately.

[jay8g]

Several trolley lines today were being run on routes without trolley wires. So much for Metro not wanting to use the batteries ? This does give me hope for the end of weekend dieselizations...

Also, SPD seems to have acquired a ex-Metro Phantom:

 

[Gordon Werner]

that's 

17 hours ago, jay8g said:

Several trolley lines today were being run on routes without trolley wires. So much for Metro not wanting to use the batteries ? This does give me hope for the end of weekend dieselizations...

Also, SPD seems to have acquired a ex-Metro Phantom:

 

That's only because Obama's visit cut off Pike St at the Convention Center ... it is not an alternative to dieselization on weekends

[anonymous guy]

17 hours ago, jay8g said:

Several trolley lines today were being run on routes without trolley wires. So much for Metro not wanting to use the batteries ? This does give me hope for the end of weekend dieselizations...

I have noticed a few XT coaches going down 3rd AVE off-wire at the end of their run signed as "TO TERMINAL" with a few passengers remaining on-board. Not sure what the protocol is for that, but it seems to happen every so often.

17 hours ago, jay8g said:

Also, SPD seems to have acquired a ex-Metro Phantom:

Anyone know what the original coach number is?

[northwesterner]

2 hours ago, Gordon Werner said:

That's only because Obama's visit cut off Pike St at the Convention Center ... it is not an alternative to dieselization on weekends

What is the distinction you're making here?