shambala Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 'Got a good price', TTC commissioner says of Bombardier bid Wed, August 23, 2006 By ROB GRANATSTEIN, Toronto Sun The price Bombardier wants for subway cars is in, and one TTC commissioner says it should be enough to quiet the critics. Bombardier’s bid price of $499.3 million is lower than any other rumoured price by train-maker Siemens, and much lower than the TTC had budgeted for the 234 subway cars. “We got a good price,”said TTC commissioner Joe Mihevc. “Independent third parties are telling us we’re not going to get a better price by going to an open market bid.” Critics of the deal have said for months the city wouldn’t get the best deal by not going to the open market and inviting all bidders to compete for the contract. The TTC had decided to sole source the deal to Bombardier, who would make the cars in Thunder Bay. “I think the price shuts the critics up,” Mihevc said. “This was a debate about money,” he said. “This was not a secret process." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 What was the rumoured price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rocket 191 Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 The maximum price the city was willing to pay was, IIRC, $780 million. The news stories yesterday all said that Bombardier's exclusive bid was $499.3 million. However, this morning I heard the $780 million, so I'm not sure anymore. My guess is that the "outside consultants" would have only supported the idea if it was $499, because Siemens' quote was around $560. Transit Toronto can clarify. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 I know that securing new rolling stock is important for the TTC, however more importantly....has there a final decision being made about the Scarborough SRT? I think that is a higher priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0603 Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 I know that securing new rolling stock is important for the TTC, however more importantly....has there a final decision being made about the Scarborough SRT? I think that is a higher priority. Yesterday behind closed doors, they decided they were going to build a series of LRT Networks. Here's the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T15111 Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Yesterday behind closed doors, they decided they were going to build a series of LRT Networks. Here's the link! It would have been so nice if they built BD line to mccowan the first time what a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. DeLarge Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Yesterday behind closed doors, they decided they were going to build a series of LRT Networks. Here's the link! This could end up like the SRT in a few years...overcrowding, not enough equipment, no forethough. Where a subway could of been there would be a system of zoo monorails. Ah well, luckily I don't live in Scarborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leylandvictory2 Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 It would have been so nice if they built BD line to mccowan the first time what a waste. where comes the money to build the subway line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0603 Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 where comes the money to build the subway line? Exactly, we haven't even secured founding for the Spadina line extension yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Exactly, we haven't even secured founding for the Spadina line extension yet! If the TTC really wants to fund subway construction they will find a way. One possibility is to privatize it, or do something similar to the PPP that occured to London Underground. Personnally I hate the thought of privatization, but it may be the only way these projects proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leylandvictory2 Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 If the TTC really wants to fund subway construction they will find a way. One possibility is to privatize it, or do something similar to the PPP that occured to London Underground. Personnally I hate the thought of privatization, but it may be the only way these projects proceed. i doubt it. In the past a politican sugguested developers help to pay for a portion of the subway expansion. In return they will be allowed to develop the land above the subway station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 i doubt it. In the past a politican sugguested developers help to pay for a portion of the subway expansion. In return they will be allowed to develop the land above the subway station. Thats what a PPP is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Thats what a PPP is. You know what the funny thing is, is that the Ontario Government has quoted several times that the Private Sector usually has the ability to build things as just a good a quality, and often at a cheaper price (all that Government Pork-Barreling I suppose). But are we being realistic to say that an LRT line will adequately service Scarborough? Maybe as feeder lines to a subway, but I can't see it being good enough to meet future demand. Where will the money for a subway come from? Maybe private is the way to go, maybe not. But in the end if they REALLY wanted a subway they could make it happen, one way or another. LOL, where's all these new powers the City is getting in the new City of Toronto Act? Where's the Federal Government and its surpluses? The money is there, just make some noise! A thought just occured, but I guess the TTC, by caving in to say "oh well, there's never going to be money for it, build an LRT instead", one could say the TTC has just said that beyond the Spadina Extension, there will be no more subways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D40LF Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 I guess the money isn't there as I recently read about the money woes the Ontario government had with the construction of Hwy 407. Thats why they sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leylandvictory2 Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 now the federal government has surplus may as well invest in public infrastructures. Gridlock is hurting our economy. Building more roads is not the solution and rather expensive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 It would be smart to Piggyback the order of street cars and run them on dedicated track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 I guess the money isn't there as I recently read about the money woes the Ontario government had with the construction of Hwy 407. Thats why they sold it. Heard on the radio today that the Ontario Government has a $300M SURPLUS, and is no longer in defecit!!! News article I found... http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...id=968332188492 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Heard on the radio today that the Ontario Government has a $300M SURPLUS, and is no longer in defecit!!! News article I found... http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...id=968332188492 Forget about March already? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Forget about March already? Dan In march they took their projected surplus and put it in that funding announcement for the Subway Extension (pending the Federal Government matching the funds) to... 1) Stay in defecit to show that the government could eliminate it by the next election, showing that the government can be fiscally responsible 2) To avoid having to put the surplus on the Provincail Debt (by law iirc). That's obviously the condensed version, but if I'm reading/hearing the headlines correctly, this $300M is ON TOP of what they projected earlier in the year, because essentially, the $1.4B that was announced as a surplus in march, and set aside for the subway, is technically "spent" already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 So there we go.....the Province didn't really have a deficit in March. Just like they don't actually have a surplus now, since they can't acutally use the money until the next budget document is passed next March (or is it May?). And that law states that the Government has a set amount of time to decide what to do with the surplus. 30 days past the end of the fiscal year, I believe. BTW, this $300mil "surplus" was acutally expected. If the Government is smart politically they will underestimate their revenues, and act "surprised" when they end up being higher than normal. It's been happening at least since the Tories took power Federally in 1984. And the $1.4bil is spent. It's all been put aside in various accounts, never to be touched until the project it's been dedicated to is ready for it. Unless, of course, some savy future Government decides to ransack the accounts and the interest they've been collecting, and call it revenue. Not that any of the parties that we know of would do that. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. Wright Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yes this is a pretty old topic but it's the most resent one conserning the new subway cars that I could find. Well I just relized that the articulated policy will likely apply to these "T-2s" as they are going to be articulated. If I remember correctly the policy applys to ALL articulated vehicles. So will there be a exception for this or will the subway start becoming ultra infrequent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0603 Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yes this is a pretty old topic but it's the most resent one conserning the new subway cars that I could find. Well I just relized that the articulated policy will likely apply to these "T-2s" as they are going to be articulated. If I remember correctly the policy applys to ALL articulated vehicles. So will there be a exception for this or will the subway start becoming ultra infrequent? I doubt it, it's completely different, an Articulated streetcar/bus is longer, and the T2s will not be any longer and if this policy did come into effect, Articulated trains would probably run between normal coupled trainsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. Wright Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I doubt it, it's completely different, an Articulated streetcar/bus is longer, and the T2s will not be any longer and if this policy did come into effect, Articulated trains would probably run between normal coupled trainsets. And what makes you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0603 Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 And what makes you think that? I can't see the TTC cutting service, for the YUS line, especially during rush hour with the current crush loads and what I mean by in between coupled trains, I mean like a T1 then a T2 then a T1 then a T2 so on so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. Wright Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I can't see the TTC cutting service, for the YUS line, especially during rush hour with the current crush loads and what I mean by in between coupled trains, I mean like a T1 then a T2 then a T1 then a T2 so on so on. Didn't they cut service to Queen Street because of the Articulated Policy and the ridership has decreased over the years according to TransitToronto.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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