Greater Golden Horseshoe Transit

Waterloo Region Rapid Transit

153 posts in this topic

For the people that blindly support busses over ligh rail, you need to educate yourself a bit more. We see comments on these boards, letters to newspapers, and callers on radio stations that are for whatever reason against light rail. What do all these people have in common? They drive a car all day; don't care about public transit; have never taken light rail transit; don't understand the advantages of light rail; and have not participated in discussions when they were relevant years ago. Now that the project is 'close' to reality we see these people come out and complain for reasons I have yet to understand. Get out of your cars, look at other light rail systems, educate yourself, and then and only then may you talk.

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For the people that blindly support busses over ligh rail, you need to educate yourself a bit more. We see comments on these boards, letters to newspapers, and callers on radio stations that are for whatever reason against light rail. What do all these people have in common? They drive a car all day; don't care about public transit; have never taken light rail transit; don't understand the advantages of light rail; and have not participated in discussions when they were relevant years ago. Now that the project is 'close' to reality we see these people come out and complain for reasons I have yet to understand. Get out of your cars, look at other light rail systems, educate yourself, and then and only then may you talk.

+1

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We elect people to represent us, not to be our parents. People overwhelmingly are against LRT in the Region, and for that reason it should not be built.

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We elect people to represent us, not to be our parents. People overwhelmingly are against LRT in the Region, and for that reason it should not be built.

Which brings us back to the fact we need to inform the citizens of what LRT really is, how it's different from a streetcar (which I know some citizens addressed, saying it will be slow), and how that, along with the feeder routes being implemented, is gonna improve service throughout the region. Then see if people are still overwhelmingly against LRT, and we'll take it from there. The first approval of LRT was pushed too fast, even I have to admit. No one knew how the future of transit in the region would be, hence why people were overwhelmingly against it.

Though remember, Salt Lake City residents were against their LRT at first, and when it was eventually built, guess who jumped ship first? The residents against the LRT.

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We elect people to represent us, not to be our parents. People overwhelmingly are against LRT in the Region, and for that reason it should not be built.

People are also overwhelmingly against taxes. But if we get rid of those, they will complain about the lack of the things those taxes pay for. People are fickle, and they don't typically have the time or interest in looking to study the big picture. For that matter, they contradict themselves.

In the case of LRT, the Region is considering the costs it faces in terms of transportation and other infrastructure over the next twenty years. As I've written elsewhere: the same people who will complain loudest about why the government isn't doing enough about gridlock and the cost of taxes (picture $150 million/year for road maintenance) - are the people now calling on our government to be short-sighted and ignore what's coming.

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In the case of LRT, the Region is considering the costs it faces in terms of transportation and other infrastructure over the next twenty years. As I've written elsewhere: the same people who will complain loudest about why the government isn't doing enough about gridlock and the cost of taxes (picture $150 million/year for road maintenance) - are the people now calling on our government to be short-sighted and ignore what's coming.

This.

People complain taxes will be insane with LRT, well, guess what, they'll be higher if we build more roads to solve congestion. So let's have congestion? Then people will complain about congestion. It doesn't matter what you do, you'll get a significant number of people who take only a simplistic look at the issue (it costs me money therefore it's bad). People don't and never will understand the studies, the ridership forecasts, the environmental assessment process, the costs of road construction and maintenance, and how all these numbers work together to produce the answer of LRT. Projections aren't perfect, they aren't even close, but they're a heck of a lot more accurate than some guy in a coffee shop with his "common sense". If you're going to argue LRT won't work then tell me why, and use evidence to back up your claims.

Council bowing to public pressure over numbers and projections produces bad results. Don't believe me? Let's look at a piece by everyone's favourite anti-LRT campaigner, Jeff Outhit.

Council right to fend off noisy residents

This is a story about politicians wisely standing their ground, to save taxpayers almost $2 million.

Flash back to 2004. About 100 Waterloo residents pack into regional council chambers. They demand noise barriers when Fischer-Hallman Road is widened to four lanes, between Erb and Columbia streets.

Residents complain traffic is already noisy enough to drown out backyard conversations. Politicians respond that traffic is not loud enough for noise protection, under regional policy.

Politicians unveil a study that says the wider road will not grow noticeably louder. They are unwilling to spend nearly $2 million on unwarranted noise walls, partly to avoid setting a precedent.

Skeptical residents say the noise policy is flawed. They point to noise barriers elsewhere on Fischer-Hallman and demand the same. Politicians say the other barriers were installed at private expense or under different policies.

The standoff drags on, for meeting after meeting.

Upset residents spend $10,000 to secure their own noise study. It fails to advance their cause. Politicians offer to split the cost of noise protection with residents. Residents refuse and instead ask the province to intervene. This delays construction but ultimately fails to prevent it.

Today, Fischer-Hallman is four lanes wide, without the noise protection residents wanted. And guess what?

It’s quieter than when it had two lanes.

A new study reveals traffic noise has fallen by up to four decibels, roughly equal to the protection of a noise wall. This is because traffic volume is down five to 18 per cent. Trucks have fallen by more than half.

As planners anticipated, drivers have diverted to Ira Needles Boulevard, opened in 2007, and to Westmount Road, extended from Columbia to Northfield Drive in 2004.

Bill Spall helped lead the charge for noise walls. He’s glad politicians resisted. Today his home fronts on a wider road, behind trees planted by taxpayers. It’s quieter and the trees are more far pleasant than an unsightly noise wall.

“I would say it’s worked out OK,” he said, offering compliments on the landscaping.

Upon widening Fischer-Hallman, council promised to review traffic noise within a few years. Keeping that pledge, a public information centre was recently advertised in the neighbourhood, to present the happy results.

Not a single resident showed up.

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Well it just confirms we're getting rapid transit for sure. At least status quo won't be an option.

But question still remains; "What will it be? Buses, or Trains"?

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But question still remains; "What will it be? Buses, or Trains"?

Wait.... the monorail option is off the table? I think we should propose that it be brought back for consideration.

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Wait.... the monorail option is off the table? I think we should propose that it be brought back for consideration.

There was one candidate for Regional Council who talked a lot about Aerobus.

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Wait.... the monorail option is off the table? I think we should propose that it be brought back for consideration.

Where did this "Monorail" idea come from? (I guess since we already have a "Mickey Mouse Transit" here now, it might be worth considering)

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Where did this "Monorail" idea come from? (I guess since we already have a "Mickey Mouse Transit" here now, it might be worth considering)

Yeah, Bombardier is in the business of building Mickey Mouse Transit systems, they just won a huge monorail contract in Brazil. People gotta stop listening to the simpsons.

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Yeah, Bombardier is in the business of building Mickey Mouse Transit systems, they just won a huge monorail contract in Brazil. People gotta stop listening to the simpsons.

Maybe better they listen to the Simpsons than the melodrama of Cambridge mayor Doug Craig.

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Maybe better they listen to the Simpsons than the melodrama of Cambridge mayor Doug Craig.

^ This.

As well, public consultation meeting times are up. I'll possibly attend the one at McCormick, as it's the closest to where I live.

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Where did this "Monorail" idea come from? (I guess since we already have a "Mickey Mouse Transit" here now, it might be worth considering)

I was only joking. Monorails, subways, and systems as such are beyond this Region. Although a subway zipping under the Region going from Elmira to Cambridge, Kitchener to Waterloo, Kitchener to Guelph all in a few minutes would be exciting.

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im all for a system that reaches all areas of the buildup that means either buses or trains but trains all the way from ainslie to conestoga mall

or this idea not on the table

trains from cambridge centre terminal to the university of waterloo with the piece from the UW to conestoga mall/st jacobs mkt and camb centre to ainsle built later..this way it pleases the masses especilly residents of cambridge and the cambridge regional councilors of which mayor craig has allies in former mayors of cambridge jane brewer and claudette miller...This is my idea dont know if it would be much cheaper but would make all three citys accessed by the trains and give the planners there 2 stadge train implementing..

idea 2 do trains on currant rights of way on the CANADIAN PACIFIC and GODRICH AND EXETER(rail america)

It would run from former lake erie northern(CP) abandondment near ainsle terminal to the CP yards with street running for an half block to the right of way just north east of main street then through rebuilt right of way from main st to the CP yards in galt where the trains would use a pair of tracks in the yard to get to the first station at the delta the tracks at hespler road then the route would continue along the CP in triple tracked rights of way(builtup and co paid by GRT/CP) from hespler road to fairview through Preston and CP Hagey (toyota area) on up through freeport and fairview then chainging line co owners to the godrich exeter railway at the GEXR/CP interchange near Courtland and Hanson..the rapid would continue along the GEXR to waterloo via the branch line that parelells mill st to the GEXR mainline at king/brightupt and the propsed station at king and victoria /brightupt and on to a wye just past the currant via station(former CN kitchener) where the train heads north swiftly to waterloo square,UW,and conestoga mall on double tracked routing from wye at the GEXR main to the street running at northfield and GEXR to conestoga mall area..

The stations will be listed below with location discription and my idea of the equipment GRT could use

1 AINSLIE STREET TERMINAL

2 DELTA(HESPLER ROAD AT JAFFERY OPISITE BABCOCK/WILCOCK FOUNDRY)

3 CAMBRIDGE HOSPITAL CP LINE AT HOSPITAL PARKING LOT

4 CONCESSION AT KING(SITE OF OLD CP/CN INTERCHANGE FOR PRESTON)

5 WESTMINSTER CP CROSSING AT THE PARK WESTMINSTER AND MARGRET ST(for preston town centre proximity)

6 RIVERSIDE PARK(at site of grand river railway station gone since 50's)

7 CP HAGEY AT SPORTSWORLD DRIVE

8 FREEPORT HOSPITAL

9 FAIRVIEW PARK PROXIMITY STATION OPISITE WALMART ON CP AT GOODRICH

10 OTTAWA AND MILL(ON GEXR)

11 QUEEN NEAR MILL(GEXR)(site of old Grand river railway(CP) kitchener station and yard)

12 KING AND VICTORIA/BRIGHTUPT(INTERCHANGE WITH GEXR MAINLINE)AT PROPSED STATION(for GRT/GO and VIA trains intercity buses)

14 UPTOWN WATERLOO (AT SHOPS OF WATERLOO SQUARE)

15 UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO AT DAVIS CENTRE(a transit terminal/intercity terminal could be built)

16 NORTHFIELD NEAR PARKSIDE

17 EITHER ST JACOBS MARKET OR CONESTOGA MALL(conestoga via street running on northfield,king or davenport to mall terminal

THEY COULD USE THE BOMBARDIER CARS USED BY GO TRANSIT IN 2 OR 3 CAR TRAINS WITH ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVES HYBRID LOCOMOTIVES,OR LOW EMISSION LOCOMOTIVES

thanks for reading

Jeff

P.S my handle lowther street was a transit terminal in the Cambridge transit days on lowther street in preston at the post office where the route 2 cornation to mill/ainslie terminals and preston hights(now route 52) met the route 12 sherring,13 garden and old route 14 dunbar(retired routes) 14 heavely revised and now 56

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Us to fairway will capture more possible commuters as Fairview park's lot is right by the highway. It could actually alleviate a lot of highway traffic in Waterloo.

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I like te suggestion that has been made to run the LRT from Conestoga Mall (forget running it to St. Jacob's, because the Route 21 will still have to continue on uo to Elmira, anyway) all the way to the "Smart Center" in Cambridge. Why? Well, where is the "huge" bottleneck right now? It's on Hwy. 8 between Kitchener and the 401, and again on the 401 between Hwy. 8 and Hwy. 24. Wouldn't it be so much easier to jump on the LRT at Fairview Mall and "take the train" to Cambridge, even if it only went as far as the "Smart Center", then jump back on "iXpress" buses that now would "short turn" in Cambridge at the "Smart Center". In fact, even the iXpress buses in KW could "short turn" at Fairview Mall then having the LRT, or the Route 52, as the connections on to Cambridge.

Seems to make a lot of sense to me, afterall, it is Hwy. 8 and the 401 where the delays happen! (Just think of what happens when there is an accident on the bridge over the Grand River, and everything is diverted onto "Old King St.", or out via "Homer Watson"?)

Some food for thought for the Public Meetings again.

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I like te suggestion that has been made to run the LRT from Conestoga Mall (forget running it to St. Jacob's, because the Route 21 will still have to continue on uo to Elmira, anyway) all the way to the "Smart Center" in Cambridge. Why? Well, where is the "huge" bottleneck right now? It's on Hwy. 8 between Kitchener and the 401, and again on the 401 between Hwy. 8 and Hwy. 24. Wouldn't it be so much easier to jump on the LRT at Fairview Mall and "take the train" to Cambridge, even if it only went as far as the "Smart Center", then jump back on "iXpress" buses that now would "short turn" in Cambridge at the "Smart Center".

The thing is that that would take the price of the first phase to something like $1.3 billion, and we have less than $600 million in funding from the upper levels of government. It's a lot of track to lay down, and a large bridge to build -- and relatively few riders currently on that section.

That said, the Region is already having bus by-pass shoulders built on both Highway 8 and the 401, specifically so that the "adapted BRT" buses between Fairview and Cambridge would be able to make it through when there's traffic.

I think it is crucial that there be a commitment to starting work on extending the route when ridership on the Fairview to Cambridge section reaches a particular ridership target.

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That said, the Region is already having bus by-pass shoulders built on both Highway 8 and the 401, specifically so that the "adapted BRT" buses between Fairview and Cambridge would be able to make it through when there's traffic.

I think it is crucial that there be a commitment to starting work on extending the route when ridership on the Fairview to Cambridge section reaches a particular ridership target.

Yes, but the real bottle neck will still be Hwy. 8 & Hwy. 401. Even with dedicated BRT lanes, people in the Region will still find it upon themselves to drive in those lanes during rush hour, and/or when traffic is tied up in the 'regular' lanes. It's just common nature around here ................ "I'm sitting here stuck in traffic, trying to get to work in 15 minutes 'cause I stopped in the 15 car line up at the Tim Horton's drive trhu, and that "BRT" lane is sitting there "empty" right now ................... I'll just shoot over to that lane and pass a few 100 cars!" ................ Trust me, I've lived in the Region long enough to see that nobody follows any of the Highway Traffic Act, and out Police (OPP or Regional) will do nothing about laying any charges! Just watch all the people turning into Highland Hills Mall on the "red light", and in the "Bus only" lane! You never see anyone get charged there. Also, another example ............... "right turns from Gaukel onto King St."; First they stop 1 or 2 car lengths OVER the marked "stop" line, and then proceed to turn right on a "red", which is clearly marked "No Right Turns on Red"! Ever see a cop charge anyone for doing that? Not me, and I've seen them standing there right on the corner, and they do nothing!

So, back to the original comment ..................... a dedicated BRT lane on Hwy 8 and Hwy 401 will not have the effect that they hope for. I still would recommend, that if the LRT was going to get pushed through, as a "monument" to Ken Seiling, at least extend it from Fairview Mall to the Smart Center, or better yet, ONLY run it between those 2 points! Proposing to run it thru Waterloo, for the "non resident University population" is ludicrous! The taxpayers of the Region of Waterloo will pay for this, while the UW and WLU students will "ride for free". (Oh ya, don't get me started on the "One Card" joke! That's somehting else that really needs to be addressed with the student body! They can't end that "One Card" system (scam) fast enough, and move to a "Smart Card" reader.

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Yes, but the real bottle neck will still be Hwy. 8 & Hwy. 401. Even with dedicated BRT lanes, people in the Region will still find it upon themselves to drive in those lanes during rush hour, and/or when traffic is tied up in the 'regular' lanes. It's just common nature around here ................ "I'm sitting here stuck in traffic, trying to get to work in 15 minutes 'cause I stopped in the 15 car line up at the Tim Horton's drive trhu, and that "BRT" lane is sitting there "empty" right now ................... I'll just shoot over to that lane and pass a few 100 cars!" ................ Trust me, I've lived in the Region long enough to see that nobody follows any of the Highway Traffic Act, and out Police (OPP or Regional) will do nothing about laying any charges! Just watch all the people turning into Highland Hills Mall on the "red light", and in the "Bus only" lane! You never see anyone get charged there. Also, another example ............... "right turns from Gaukel onto King St."; First they stop 1 or 2 car lengths OVER the marked "stop" line, and then proceed to turn right on a "red", which is clearly marked "No Right Turns on Red"! Ever see a cop charge anyone for doing that? Not me, and I've seen them standing there right on the corner, and they do nothing!

Aren't they in the process of widening hwy. 8 to the 401? I would like to think traffic would ease off a bit when that project is completed. Or is all that work being done just to add the proposed BRT line?

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Aren't they in the process of widening hwy. 8 to the 401? I would like to think traffic would ease off a bit when that project is completed. Or is all that work being done just to add the proposed BRT line?

It's both. Highway 8 is going to be 8 lanes between Fairway and King, 6 lanes between King and Sportsworld, and 4 lanes down to the 401, in addition to the bus lanes.

Anyway, for those interested, Rapid Transit Webcast on right now until 8PM.

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