MÉTRO

[Kalibur]

26 minutes ago, Oc4526 said:

Where in the story did you see the line would be completed in 2 years?

 

 

According to  Montreal Metro's Blue line: What we know and what we don't about long-awaited extension

 

Completed by 2026

Couillard said Monday the Metro extension would be completed by 2026, and that expropriation is already underway. 

A bus rapid transit system (BRT) is also in the works along Pie-IX Boulevard. 

That project involves designating an 11-kilometre, reserved bus lane to link Montreal to Laval.

Construction on the Pie-IX BRT is expected to begin this fall and be ready in 2022.

I meant for the Blue line in it's current form.

"The last of the Metro's four lines to be built, when it first opened in 1986 the Blue line consisted only of five stations — Saint-Michel, Fabre, d'Iberville, Jean-Talon and de Castelnau.

The other seven stations were up and running by 1988."

 

From 1986 to 1988, only 2 years.

[Oc4526]

7 hours ago, Kalibur said:

I meant for the Blue line in it's current form.

"The last of the Metro's four lines to be built, when it first opened in 1986 the Blue line consisted only of five stations — Saint-Michel, Fabre, d'Iberville, Jean-Talon and de Castelnau.

The other seven stations were up and running by 1988."

 

From 1986 to 1988, only 2 years.

Found this on wikipedia (take with a grain of salt )

Quote

History

Construction of Snowdon station began in 1975, with two platform levels. In 1979, the provincial government decided to build the Blue Line. On June 16, 1986 the first section, between Saint-Michel to De Castelnau opened.

This was followed by the section from De Castelnau to Parc on June 15, 1987 and Parc to Snowdon on January 4, 1988. The opening of the intermediate station Acadie was delayed for almost three months. It was finally opened on March 28, 1988. Other planned extensions at both ends of the route have so far been omitted due to financial reasons.

If this is accurate. the Stm opened the Blue line in two phases. (basically opening 1/2 the line as the other 1/2 is being completed.)

 

 

[webfil]

The construction lasted for over 10 years ― rather than 2 years ― as some stations opened before the work was completed, and the tunnel was also dug between Snowdon and Côte-des-Neiges in 1975. There had beed a moratorium on metro extensions for some years in the 70's, but it had been lifted, which gave way for the Blue Line.

https://www.metrodemontreal.com/blue/index.html

[SMS]

Let's not also forget that the metro extension to Laval was opened later than scheduled and cost above the original estimates.

[Jack 47]

The MR-73's are likely next to retire if Couillard gets his way.  They were supposed to remain until 2036, but now they may be replaced by a new order of Azur trains to keep the Bombardier La Pocatière plant running:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/02/23/des-voitures-de-metro-pour-sauver-bombardier-a-la-pocatiere

The green line was operating a mix of all three train models on Saturday April 14th 2018: three MR-63 trains, three MPM-10 Azur trains and the remainder MR-73s.

It seems that some of the features of the MR-63 will continue to live on the Azur trains: the sound of the door interlock bell in the driving cab is identical, while the sound of the Azur's electropneumatic brake valves sounds almost identical as the MR-63's brake valves.

[Mark Walton]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:27 PM, Jack 47 said:

The MR-73's are likely next to retire if Couillard gets his way.  They were supposed to remain until 2036, but now they may be replaced by a new order of Azur trains to keep the Bombardier La Pocatière plant running:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/02/23/des-voitures-de-metro-pour-sauver-bombardier-a-la-pocatiere

The green line was operating a mix of all three train models on Saturday April 14th 2018: three MR-63 trains, three MPM-10 Azur trains and the remainder MR-73s.

It seems that some of the features of the MR-63 will continue to live on the Azur trains: the sound of the door interlock bell in the driving cab is identical, while the sound of the Azur's electropneumatic brake valves sounds almost identical as the MR-63's brake valves.

Isn't the Azur consortium already supplying 5 additional trains as warranty compensation for earlier issues? 

[Jack 47]

1 hour ago, Mark Walton said:

Isn't the Azur consortium already supplying 5 additional trains as warranty compensation for earlier issues? 

Two Azur trains, not five.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreals-stm-to-receive-two-free-azur-metro-trains

They'll need as many in service as possible, as it seems that they take longer to load than an MR-63 or MR-73.  The Azur train operators are trying to leave each station quickly. Is the STM aware of any reduction in overall line capacity and average speed on Line 2 because of this?

When they put all three models on Line 1, it seems to run in a really discontinuous fashion.

[Mark Walton]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, Jack 47 said:

They'll need as many in service as possible, as it seems that they take longer to load than an MR-63 or MR-73.  The Azur train operators are trying to leave each station quickly. Is the STM aware of any reduction in overall line capacity and average speed on Line 2 because of this?

Maybe because the Azurs have fewer doors, even if they're wider?

[Transit geek]

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎19 at 8:47 PM, Jack 47 said:

They'll need as many in service as possible, as it seems that they take longer to load than an MR-63 or MR-73.  The Azur train operators are trying to leave each station quickly. Is the STM aware of any reduction in overall line capacity and average speed on Line 2 because of this?

I am surprised that STM never made any mention of upgrading their 50-year-old signalling technology. It is almost as old as, if not older than, the original London Underground Victoria Line ATO system, which was replaced with a modern system (though I have found no confirmation that it is considered CBTC) upon withdrawal of the original fleet in 2011. The similar Paris Metro has proven that such an upgrade is possible, as is the case on their line 1 in 2012, and I'm very sure the Azur was designed with CBTC in mind and have suspicions the STM wants to withdraw the older fleet asap to clear the path to make this happen. (Upgrading the MR 73s with CBTC, by the way, would probably be technically impossible as doing it on Toronto's T1s, whose design differs too much from the TRs to install the necessary equipment.)

[Jack 47]

3 hours ago, Mark Walton said:

Maybe because the Azurs have fewer doors, even if they're wider?

I thought that wider doors on the Azur would allow three streams of passengers to flow, but this is not the case.  The narrower doors of the MR-63 and MR-73 accommodates two streams, but the Azurs also allow only two streams of passengers, although more comfortably. When an Azur arrives on platform, passengers have to walk longer distances to get to a door when entering or exiting.  In the end, do the Azurs have a longer dwell time at each station?  I do not know yet. 

[novalfs26001]

3 hours ago, Transit geek said:

I am surprised that STM never made any mention of upgrading their 50-year-old signalling technology. It is almost as old as, if not older than, the original London Underground Victoria Line ATO system, which was replaced with a modern system (though I have found no confirmation that it is considered CBTC) upon withdrawal of the original fleet in 2011. The similar Paris Metro has proven that such an upgrade is possible, as is the case on their line 1 in 2012, and I'm very sure the Azur was designed with CBTC in mind and have suspicions the STM wants to withdraw the older fleet asap to clear the path to make this happen. (Upgrading the MR 73s with CBTC, by the way, would probably be technically impossible as doing it on Toronto's T1s, whose design differs too much from the TRs to install the necessary equipment.)

Montreal’s signalling system has been upgraded over the years. It is actually quite modern when you compare it to other subway systems. Although it still uses fixed block, signals (speed, spacing, door opening, stops etc...) are already transmitted directly from the tracks to the train. The software that operates the system is also very recent. I don’t see the advantage our Metro would gain with CBTC, especially given the high conversion costs.  

[eclair14]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:33 AM, novalfs26001 said:

Montreal’s signalling system has been upgraded over the years. It is actually quite modern when you compare it to other subway systems. Although it still uses fixed block, signals (speed, spacing, door opening, stops etc...) are already transmitted directly from the tracks to the train. The software that operates the system is also very recent. I don’t see the advantage our Metro would gain with CBTC, especially given the high conversion costs.  

Montreal metro has an issue, the tunnel and platform ahead must be free before the train at the previous station can proceed, so the line TPH capacity is kinda limited by the longest distance + dwell time between stations. So maybe for now it's not an issue, but if ridership increase, this could become an issue.

[Oc4526]

This came across my Google card feed.

https://www.mtlblog.com/montreals-beaudry-metro-station-will-be-closed-for-8-months

[Jack 47]

After riding the Orange Line for the past few months, I noticed that the line is completely saturated with riders from 7am to 9am (towards Côte-Vertu) and 3pm to 7pm (towards Montmorency), between Crémazie and Lionel-Groulx.  The literature (annual reports) and press releases from the STM also suggests the same. 

The introduction of the Azur was supposed to alleviate this with their higher passenger capacity. However, I have noticed that station dwell times are painfully longer (>45 seconds per station) compared to the MR-73's. It's starting to take really too long to load the trains and close the doors. Because train progression and overall schedule speed has been bogged down, train throughput is lower and I suspect that total line capacity has dropped.  It no longer matters whether saturate the line with trains, it can no longer transport as many people as it once did when the MR-73's were in service.

The root of the problem are the 3 sets of doors on the side of each Azur car, while wider, can accommodate only two streams of passengers.  They were intended to accommodate three streams, but this is not happening!  The MR-73's have 4 sets of doors, while narrow, can still accommodate 2 streams.  There is a reason why New York does not put fewer than 4 doors per car on their A line and C line trains.

I am starting to seriously doubt the appropriateness of the Azur for Montréal's Métro, which is an off-the-shelf design imported from another city.  The STM will either have to consider building a third or fourth track ($Billions) if it continues to accept the Azur's glaring design flaws.

[MTL66]

19 hours ago, Jack 47 said:

After riding the Orange Line for the past few months, I noticed that the line is completely saturated with riders from 7am to 9am (towards Côte-Vertu) and 3pm to 7pm (towards Montmorency), between Crémazie and Lionel-Groulx.  The literature (annual reports) and press releases from the STM also suggests the same. 

The introduction of the Azur was supposed to alleviate this with their higher passenger capacity. However, I have noticed that station dwell times are painfully longer (>45 seconds per station) compared to the MR-73's. It's starting to take really too long to load the trains and close the doors. Because train progression and overall schedule speed has been bogged down, train throughput is lower and I suspect that total line capacity has dropped.  It no longer matters whether saturate the line with trains, it can no longer transport as many people as it once did when the MR-73's were in service.

The root of the problem are the 3 sets of doors on the side of each Azur car, while wider, can accommodate only two streams of passengers.  They were intended to accommodate three streams, but this is not happening!  The MR-73's have 4 sets of doors, while narrow, can still accommodate 2 streams.  There is a reason why New York does not put fewer than 4 doors per car on their A line and C line trains.

I am starting to seriously doubt the appropriateness of the Azur for Montréal's Métro, which is an off-the-shelf design imported from another city.  The STM will either have to consider building a third or fourth track ($Billions) if it continues to accept the Azur's glaring design flaws.

There is currently a lack of operators in the metro that is contributing to the problem. According to a friend who regularly checks this out as he is planning on going in the metro in January, there are 5 to 10 departures canceled per day, the most being on the orange line. So there probably still trains in the garages that do no go out at all during the day. Add to the fact, that there has been 7 suicides or attempted suicides in the last 2 months, those operators go on leave, some upwards to a year.

[Jack 47]

13 stations between Bonaventure and Crémazie will be receiving anti-suicide barriers similar to those used in the automated portion of the Paris Métro, at a cost of $15 million per station.  The placement of platform of doors will correspond to the Azur's exit doors:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/201808/16/01-5193304-des-portes-antisuicides-dans-13-stations-de-la-ligne-orange.php

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-metro-system-getting-anti-suicide-barriers-at-13-stations

This will mean that the MR-73's (and the STM's last remaining MR-63 element) will never serve the Orange line again.

All stations in the REM network will be equipped with the same barrier system.

[ReusableNoseTissue]

There is a new announcement in the metro saying what I presume understanding, that Michèle Deslauriers has been doing announcements for 15 years and that she is tired of doing them(not sure if it was joke). Did they do something like that back when announcements were voiced by Judith Ouimet?

EDIT: it's just saying to not hold the doors of the metro.

[rgilmtl]

My guess is it's a joke, as if she were doing them live. Stop holding the doors open so Michèle doesn't have to tell people about a delay again. etc...

[FelixINX]

It's a new campaign of the STM called "Les conseils de Michèle" that started today.

6 hours ago, rgilmtl said:

Stop holding the doors open so Michèle doesn't have to tell people about a delay again. etc...

That's exactly the point. Stopping bad behaviour. They are five : http://www.stm.info/en/info/advice/metro-service-disruptions/les-conseils-de-michele

Do you find her voice different, more natural?

Edit : the campaign is REALLY wide. From inside the subway, in the stations and on Spotify (and maybe more), the STM really hope to make sure everyone understand the message!

[SMS]

More audio pollution!

[Tom1122]

I know that the MR-63s were repainted to match the MR-73s when they were new. I wonder if STM would paint at least one MR-73 element to match the Azurs?

[SMS]

12 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I know that the MR-63s were repainted to match the MR-73s when they were new. I wonder if STM would paint at least one MR-73 element to match the Azurs?

The STM does not cater to the whims of transit enthusiasts.

[ReusableNoseTissue]

Azur car set 50 is now on the tracks. I just saw it Vendôme.

[Mark Walton]

STM has started the retirement of 63 of its 423 MR-73 Metro cars - including the first one, 79-501, which was recently returned to its birthplace, the Alstom (formerly Bombardier) plant at La Pocatière. From STM's FB page. In reply to questions about Exporail getting one of those cars, I suggested the last one, 79-782, when the time comes.

[Chris_the_traveller]

With the STM's huge deficits, and the province pressuring the STM to reduce their expenses, could we see 3-car MR-73 trains come back to the blue line in 2022 in order to save on operating costs?