Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[wil9402]

1 hour ago, MorningsideExpress said:

I'm wondering what, if anything can be done about the "unloading platform" at Kennedy Station. It seems to me that every bus chooses to unload on the east end of the platform before either going out of service or head to their bay to load. I'm not sure if this is TTC protocol or not but it seems that the unloading platform is being used for too many buses, and drivers are not opting to just head to their allocated platform. This is creating quite a large back log of buses getting in and out of the station. Especially when the artics come in. I'm not placing blame on drivers here, as it seems like the most logical and easy solution, to prevent passengers from boarding your bus when you want to go out of service for break or driver change, but it's also inadvertently causing delay to other buses. Can the TTC mandate that buses unload at their assigned bay, and is this something that drivers would support in order to improve traffic flow in the station?

 

During peak periods, every bay in Platform A (the main terminal) at Kennedy has more than one route sharing the bay or has a frequent service route (86, 116) where it is possible for more than one bus to arrive at the station at the same time. This means that buses can't sit in their bays as they will block the other route from loading. If they pull into their bay they have to load and leave. To prevent a backlog waiting for the drop off bay some operators pull into another bay, usually the 20/113 bay if it's free, and offload there.

43 minutes ago, Articulated said:

It is by no means a perfect situation - the bus terminal at Kennedy Station was not designed to see the level of service passing through the terminal. That's why the Line 3 replacement buses were kicked to the outer Platforms A and B for loading, but this doesn't fully resolve the issue with unloading (which needs to be done inside the main terminal, so that passengers have access to the fare-paid area of the station).

All Line 3 replacement buses load and unload outside the fare paid area in Platform B (the south parking lot). They are working on finishing what seems to be an offloading platform right at the station entrance. It is essentially right where the old temporary platform was.

[Articulated]

56 minutes ago, wil9402 said:

All Line 3 replacement buses load and unload outside the fare paid area in Platform B (the south parking lot). They are working on finishing what seems to be an offloading platform right at the station entrance. It is essentially right where the old temporary platform was.

Thanks for the correction. I have not been to Kennedy since Platform B started being used, so I don't have the first-hand experience (although I am aware it is outside the fare-paid area, to my annoyance). It sounds like the procedure of using Platform B for both unloading and loading is different from what had been mentioned by others (with some buses Line 3 unloading in the main terminal, then proceeding to the north parking lot for layover, then back to Platform B to load up and go).

[Shaun]

Why is the RT replacement busway just now being designed?  They had years to figure this out and they are only designing it now? Then the funding needs to be approved. What a disaster. 

[Bus_Medic]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

Why is the RT replacement busway just now being designed?  They had years to figure this out and they are only designing it now? Then the funding needs to be approved. What a disaster. 

Without a link or source, nobody has any idea what the hell you’re talking about.

I mean, 90% of the time we don’t know even when you do, but at least it would give us a fighting chance.

[CJ.]

The new TTC subway map is out and being installed on trains, so far only the TRs have it. Its unfortunate seeing just a “2” at Kennedy on the map alone.
 

STC RT station seems to be going early stages of being stripped (I wonder what the new purpose will be since they cant tear it down). They are planning on also building a door across the staircase entrances to it because high schoolers keep breaking in, with some saying they walk on the tracks

 

Without going upstairs you'll notice the black hang up signs have the signage removed inside of them, the maps showing line 3 are also removed except one lonely by the collector. They also said they are going to remove that iconic hexagonal bus and train sign (pretty sure the RT symbol was already removed from it). 
 

And new signage for both of entrances is on custom order, per collector. That'll be changed too probably before the holiday season.

One interesting thing I noticed was buses signed in on 600 Not in service might still announce the stop as “Scarborough Centre RT Station”. But it depends exactly where they are. Also nobody uses that when doing a route unless they have a problem signing in 

[TransitFan88]

1 hour ago, CJ. said:

STC RT station seems to be going early stages of being stripped (I wonder what the new purpose will be since they cant tear it down).

They also said they are going to remove that iconic hexagonal bus and train sign (pretty sure the RT symbol was already removed from it).

I wonder if any RT signage will make it to the TTC Shop as authentic items.

[BusFanForever]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:14 PM, bus_7246 said:

Check the next time you’re in. 3731 has been on hold with a tag against the current tires on the front. The supposed front tires are supposed to be of a wider profile than the regular tires that go on the rear axle 

 

Edit: the front tires for the Proterra 315/80 R 22.5. The rear tires are 305/70 R 22.5

Check one of the few that are actually in service. All proterra tires are Michelin 315/80 22.5. and all are mounted on the same rims which are also the same rims used on all the electric buses, the flyers and new novas. 3731 is out of service and some of the tires were "borrowed" to repair another bus when we ran out of proterra tires a while back. Spare flyer rims and tires were installed so we could push the POS out of the shop. There are signs taped the windshield of 3731 warning that the wrong size tires are installed.

[Shaun]

8 hours ago, BusFanForever said:

Check one of the few that are actually in service. All proterra tires are Michelin 315/80 22.5. and all are mounted on the same rims which are also the same rims used on all the electric buses, the flyers and new novas. 3731 is out of service and some of the tires were "borrowed" to repair another bus when we ran out of proterra tires a while back. Spare flyer rims and tires were installed so we could push the POS out of the shop. There are signs taped the windshield of 3731 warning that the wrong size tires are installed.

Lol "we could push the POS out of the shop."

13 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Without a link or source, nobody has any idea what the hell you’re talking about.

I mean, 90% of the time we don’t know even when you do, but at least it would give us a fighting chance.

https://www.cp24.com/news/design-work-on-scarborough-rt-busway-will-continue-despite-nearly-3-million-shortfall-1.6389579

According to this article the busway is still in the design process which doesn't even have funding.  They have known for years that eventually the line would be shut down and would not be ready until the new line opens.

Why are they only now deciding to start the design process? Which still needs to be approved by council. 

[nfitz]

It always appeared to me that staff had no intention of building the busway, and it seems only with the new mayor and board that things have shifted.

[glxzyy]

Does the TTC have plans on selling the 79's on the market or are they just going to be storing it for other purposes?

[Mike]

25 minutes ago, glxzyy said:

Does the TTC have plans on selling the 79's on the market or are they just going to be storing it for other purposes?

Can't imagine there is a deep market for second hand 17-year old diesel buses these days.

[CJ.]

One of the Birchmount training buses from the 12:00PM queue ended up doing in-service 506 Carlton. Not sure where or if it was short-turned, but I believe its a first seeing them go for streetcar routes during training, especially when 506 is only operated by Roncesvalles and no bus division right now.  Perhaps they changed training up a bit?

23 hours ago, TransitFan88 said:

I wonder if any RT signage will make it to the TTC Shop as authentic items.

Who said buy the signage? its all cluttered up in the former GO Bus terminal waiting area as freebies  

(Admittedly some of them are in rough shape, it seems like they just hammered some of the signage off)

[Elijah bey]

Why are there more ng Orion's on the 66 and 77 witch are nova only routes are they quiter than the 2006/2007 models 

[KangaRue]

1 hour ago, Elijah bey said:

Why are there more ng Orion's on the 66 and 77 witch are nova only routes are they quiter than the 2006/2007 models 

Because Queensway got a whole bunch more 8100s, also yes the 8300s are quieter they have the same engine as the diesel Novas iirc

[TTC Guy]

2 hours ago, Elijah bey said:

Why are there more ng Orion's on the 66 and 77 witch are nova only routes are they quiter than the 2006/2007 models 

Queensway doesn't have enough LFS' to maintain full Nova service on the 30/189, 66 and 77. So they put the next best thing being the 81's.

[leylandvictory2]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:18 PM, MorningsideExpress said:

I'm wondering what, if anything can be done about the "unloading platform" at Kennedy Station. It seems to me that every bus chooses to unload on the east end of the platform before either going out of service or head to their bay to load. I'm not sure if this is TTC protocol or not but it seems that the unloading platform is being used for too many buses, and drivers are not opting to just head to their allocated platform. This is creating quite a large back log of buses getting in and out of the station. Especially when the artics come in. I'm not placing blame on drivers here, as it seems like the most logical and easy solution, to prevent passengers from boarding your bus when you want to go out of service for break or driver change, but it's also inadvertently causing delay to other buses. Can the TTC mandate that buses unload at their assigned bay, and is this something that drivers would support in order to improve traffic flow in the station?

 

Couple of reasons. Other bus bays tend to have passengers waiting on the platform.

Layover spots at Kennedy is limited especially with so many buses in and out of stations.  By offloading at the offloading platform, drivers have a better chance of finding a layover spot.

Thirdly some passengers don't bother to read the destination signs, they just barge right in.

[MorningsideExpress]

8 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

Couple of reasons. Other bus bays tend to have passengers waiting on the platform.

Layover spots at Kennedy is limited especially with so many buses in and out of stations.  By offloading at the offloading platform, drivers have a better chance of finding a layover spot.

Thirdly some passengers don't bother to read the destination signs, they just barge right in.

I get all of that, but I'd imagine the congestion caused by one bus blocking that bay for up to 30-60 seconds per bus would eat in to some of the driver's layover time. if there's 4 or 5 buses entering Kennedy Station, that last bus in the line might get 5-7 minutes shaved off their lay over time by the time they actually get their bus into layover position. With ongoing construction, I know space is a luxury,  but I'd say there needs to be some sort of enforcement at the unloading bays. I have noticed the odd driver leave their bus at that platform as a lay over. 

[Xtrazsteve]

17 minutes ago, MorningsideExpress said:

I get all of that, but I'd imagine the congestion caused by one bus blocking that bay for up to 30-60 seconds per bus would eat in to some of the driver's layover time. if there's 4 or 5 buses entering Kennedy Station, that last bus in the line might get 5-7 minutes shaved off their lay over time by the time they actually get their bus into layover position. With ongoing construction, I know space is a luxury,  but I'd say there needs to be some sort of enforcement at the unloading bays. I have noticed the odd driver leave their bus at that platform as a lay over. 

I’m pretty sure operators aren’t that dumb and would wait for that spot. They’ll just put up NIS and unload at another bay.

 With all the padded to time. Often buses arrive at the station before the bus ahead have depart. Going to that bay with the route sign up is a big no no unless you want all the people to flock that bus and wait 10 minutes while blocking other buses that need that bay including the bus ahead.

 If you go to Kipling Station. You’ll see at 45 and 945 wait till it’s time. No one wants their bus full cause one people get on, half of them won’t get off if another bus arrives. Then they get pissed off when they see that bus leave first. Especially those to flock the local and sees the express take off in front of them.

[AUserofToronto]

Between Ontario and Toronto, it looks like Ontario will help fund the new subway trains for line 2, as well as bringing additional subway trains for the Yonge North Subway Extension.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/1003887/terms-of-the-new-deal-between-ontario-and-toronto

[Shaun]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:07 PM, AUserofToronto said:

Between Ontario and Toronto, it looks like Ontario will help fund the new subway trains for line 2, as well as bringing additional subway trains for the Yonge North Subway Extension.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/1003887/terms-of-the-new-deal-between-ontario-and-toronto

It doesn't specify if the cars for line 1 extension will be TR's or Line 2 versions of TR's

[Articulated]

5 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It doesn't specify if the cars for line 1 extension will be TR's or Line 2 versions of TR's

The fixed 6-car TR consists cannot be accommodated with the configuration that Greenwood Yard is set up for. So new cars for Line 2 cannot be just copy-and-paste versions of the TRs. The previous/cancelled tender called for trainsets that could be broken into 2-car sets that would be maintainable using Greenwood's current facilities. 

Also, for those who are concerned about "hand-me-downs", fear not because it's not feasible for any of Line 1's TR trainsets to be permanently housed/maintained at Greenwood. Barring any significant reconstruction of Greenwood Yard (or significant design changes to the TR sets made during a mid-life overhaul), they will stay on Line 1 for the rest of their service lives.

[Orion V]

29 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It doesn't specify if the cars for line 1 extension will be TR's or Line 2 versions of TR's

55+7=62 trains of the TR2s for Line 2

8 trains of the TR2s for Line 1 (to compliment the current TRs on Line 1)

[Novabus photographer]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:05 PM, CJ. said:
 

STC RT station seems to be going early stages of being stripped (I wonder what the new purpose will be since they cant tear it down). They are planning on also building a door across the staircase entrances to it because high schoolers keep breaking in, with some saying they walk on the tracks

 

Without going upstairs you'll notice the black hang up signs have the signage removed inside of them, the maps showing line 3 are also removed except one lonely by the collector. They also said they are going to remove that iconic hexagonal bus and train sign (pretty sure the RT symbol was already removed from it). 
 

Speaking of the ex-SRT stations, back when I was in Toronto for my reading week I talked to 2 fare collectors at Ellesmere and midland, who told me that the TTC is planning to permanently shut down the SRT stations besides Kennedy and STC on December 23.

According to them, originally they were going to do this November 19, but the TTC isn’t even sure what to do with the SRT stations as they are worried about the homeless living inside of them (apparently there’s already been possum sightings inside ellesmere station). I was also told the TTC will be removing the presto infrastructure in those stations soon

to me it makes absolutely no sense to have fare collectors in a de facto abandoned rt station, but hey I’m not the TTC 

I know that fare collectors may not be the best source of information on this, so does anyone have further information on what the plans are for the former SRT stations? 

Also in terms of the purpose for the STC rt station, my guess would be that (along with the Kennedy SRT platforms) they will be used for storage

[Xtrazsteve]

Unless they have security on site, it will be hard to keep out trespassers. 

[CJ.]

1 hour ago, Novabus photographer said:

Speaking of the ex-SRT stations, back when I was in Toronto for my reading week I talked to 2 fare collectors at Ellesmere and midland, who told me that the TTC is planning to permanently shut down the SRT stations besides Kennedy and STC on December 23.

According to them, originally they were going to do this November 19, but the TTC isn’t even sure what to do with the SRT stations as they are worried about the homeless living inside of them (apparently there’s already been possum sightings inside ellesmere station). I was also told the TTC will be removing the presto infrastructure in those stations soon

to me it makes absolutely no sense to have fare collectors in a de facto abandoned rt station, but hey I’m not the TTC 

I know that fare collectors may not be the best source of information on this, so does anyone have further information on what the plans are for the former SRT stations? 

Also in terms of the purpose for the STC rt station, my guess would be that (along with the Kennedy SRT platforms) they will be used for storage

For the foreseeable future, all I know is that the RT station doors will be locked indefinitely besides Kennedy and STC. I remember hearing, collectors were supposed to stay for one more board period after the original shutdown date (nov18) so they could answer questions, etc while people find out or adjust to the new norm. 

 

STC specifically is going to have the staircases closed for obvious reasons if you haven't been keeping up (a group of high school students in backpacks decided to walk on the tracks from STC station to Mccowan station quite recently), and a door will be required to access the staircases to go to the platform. I heard that short term plans indicate that the RT entrances to the platform, even though on track level, will be fully boarded up too. I assume other stations will follow this

 

I think its safe to say eventually everything but kennedy and stc RT stations will be demolished. Kennedy will probably get a similar wall with a door built like STC is about to due to reports of homeless living on the upstairs platforms. 

34 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Unless they have security on site, it will be hard to keep out trespassers. 

I'd say its impossible. CCTV at STC for example, showing the RT platforms has been literally disabled (who thought this was a good idea), so now even TTC personnel can't see whats going on or the collectors. Then they complain when people trespass that nobody told them

What I'm genuinely interested is on the fate of the RT trains. It looks like the McCowan crew got sent back to work at Greenwood, McCowan yard parking lot is always empty now.