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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V

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13 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

There you have it. This is what the JHSC rep is saying, not just myself. So @Turtle, @T3G, and everyone else who ganged up on me like petty high school bullies and scorned mean girls, enjoy eating your crow.

Perhaps people would have more sympathy for you if you didn't call those you disagree with retarded, or advocate for turning the city into a dictatorship to deal with the rising crime rate, or call someone telling you to STFU and do your job a Nazi (do you not see the contradiction here?), or derail a thread on here at least once a week for as long as I can remember venting your spleen. This isn't the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board anymore, it's the TransitMotorCoach's petty grievances discussion board.

 

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St Clair West Stn questions.

1) I just recently found out (cause I rarely go to this station), besides the 2 streetcar entrances/exits from the St Clair ROW, there is a bus only exit ramp from this station.
Why was this built and why wasn't a bus only entrance ramp built?

2) With the 512 being replaced with buses for a year, another board had members asked why buses cannot go on the streetcar ROW and the answer was the centre pole that holds up the streetcar wires restrict the width of the ROW for buses. However, the entrances and exits on St Clair into / out of this station permit buses but these sections of the ROW also have the centre poles in the middle. Is the ROW more wide in these areas from the ramp to the closest intersecting street where buses 33, 90, 126 enters the ROW?

 

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21 minutes ago, Tom1122 said:

I know that upon its retirement, PCC 4412 was used as a cafe in Scarborough called the "Jolly Trolley". It eventually went to a camp near Kitchener.

Two questions:

1. What was the camp that bought the car?

2. Does it still exist?

From the notes of John Bromley:

4412 on EXHIBITION WEST 522 was in collision with an automobile on 800813. The car was sold to E Attia, Stone Cottage Inn, 3750 Kingston Road, Scarborough, Ont, for use as an on-site adjacent lounge to their restaurant. It was later donated to Fair Havens Bible Camp, Gamebridge, Ont, and loaded for shipment to that location on 910429. It was photographed on the flatbed on 910501, still at Stone Cottage Inn.

 

I have no information on if the car still exists.

 

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8 hours ago, Orion V said:

St Clair West Stn questions.

1) I just recently found out (cause I rarely go to this station), besides the 2 streetcar entrances/exits from the St Clair ROW, there is a bus only exit ramp from this station.
Why was this built and why wasn't a bus only entrance ramp built?

Simply put, there was no need for a matching entrance ramp.

 

The exit ramp was built to allow buses to exit the station and then be able to turn right onto Bathurst. It was felt that turning right from the ROW westbound was unsafe. Inbound buses from the west could turn left from Bathurst directly onto the ROW.

 

But why did it exist? If you look back historically at the service on Bathurst, the predominant service patterns over time were south of Bloor, Bloor to St Clair, St Clair to Wilson, and Wilson north. Over time this has become less-and-less of a concern and so the TTC instead runs all the service on the 7, but the ramp remained because, well, why go through the expense of removing it?

 

8 hours ago, Orion V said:

2) With the 512 being replaced with buses for a year, another board had members asked why buses cannot go on the streetcar ROW and the answer was the centre pole that holds up the streetcar wires restrict the width of the ROW for buses. However, the entrances and exits on St Clair into / out of this station permit buses but these sections of the ROW also have the centre poles in the middle. Is the ROW more wide in these areas from the ramp to the closest intersecting street where buses 33, 90, 126 enters the ROW?

So that's not completely true - the poles do complicate things for vehicles, that part is true. A streetcar and a bus are the exact same width, but a streetcar doesn't have to worry about steering.

 

The bigger issue is that the TTC is worried about vehicles making contact with the poles - or worse, falling off of the ROW - and so buses only use it when they absolutely have to. Such as accessing the station.

 

Dan

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5 hours ago, smallspy said:

The exit ramp was built to allow buses to exit the station and then be able to turn right onto Bathurst. It was felt that turning right from the ROW westbound was unsafe. Inbound buses from the west could turn left from Bathurst directly onto the ROW.

Dan

How about outbound 33 bus coming out of the station and left turning onto Spadina Rd from the ROW? Is there a dedicated ROW left turn light or does it have to compete with eastbound St Clair cars making left turn onto Spadina Rd northbound?

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7 hours ago, Orion V said:

How about outbound 33 bus coming out of the station and left turning onto Spadina Rd from the ROW? Is there a dedicated ROW left turn light or does it have to compete with eastbound St Clair cars making left turn onto Spadina Rd northbound?

Yes, there is a white bar eastbound at Spadina in the  St Clair row to allow the turn

 

Edit: I wrote westbound by accident, I meant eastbound 

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7 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

You can also turn left onto Spadina on a green light as there are no eastbound vehicles turning left on a green. 

Turning left isn't that dangerous as both the bus can see oncoming traffic and cars can see a bus would turn in front of them. 

If the bus were to turn right, that would be the big issue. The bus operator would have to check their mirror and watch in front at the same time. Cars would not expect such a movement of a vehicle turning right from the left lane. Which was the original issue with the Bathurst turn. Even with a special transit signal and no right turns on red, people would violate the sign can still end up in a collision with the bus.

The 90 Vaughan does make a similar turn out from the ROW onto Vaughan Rd. A special signal is in place with a no right turn on red sign. However there is a huge buffer from the  diagonally intersecting roadway which would prevent most illegal right turns and allow them to see a bus going in their path if they were to proceed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6828869,-79.4197624,3a,75y,235.45h,79.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTi5Ar8KwQh_bW8iwJVXfRg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

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6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Turning left isn't that dangerous as both the bus can see oncoming traffic and cars can see a bus would turn in front of them. 

If the bus were to turn right, that would be the big issue. The bus operator would have to check their mirror and watch in front at the same time. Cars would not expect such a movement of a vehicle turning right from the left lane. Which was the original issue with the Bathurst turn. Even with a special transit signal and no right turns on red, people would violate the sign can still end up in a collision with the bus.

Which is exactly what happens to the streetcars turning east to Adelaide from northbound Spadina on the "snakeeyes" transit signal.

 

6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The 90 Vaughan does make a similar turn out from the ROW onto Vaughan Rd. A special signal is in place with a no right turn on red sign. However there is a huge buffer from the  diagonally intersecting roadway which would prevent most illegal right turns and allow them to see a bus going in their path if they were to proceed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6828869,-79.4197624,3a,75y,235.45h,79.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTi5Ar8KwQh_bW8iwJVXfRg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

In theory it's great, but in practice it doesn't work so well. Car drivers don't stop at the white stop line westbound on St Clair at Vaughan, they often pull all the way up to Vaughan Rd, which actually interferes with the Northbound Vaughan traffic as well. Add in the behavior from the average pedestrian crossing against their light, or standing impatiently in the roadway waiting for their cross signal, and the uber eats cyclists that are looking down at the delivery map on their phone while accelerating blindly through their red light.

 

A lot of the 126 Cristie drivers use the white bar to proceed straight through the intersection from the streetcar row to westbound St Clair to get a jump on traffic., which is against the hta I think. Speaking of that, I've seen one streetcar driver go straight through eastbound at Spadina Rd and St Clair on the white bar signal. I have no idea how they managed to accelerate quick enough to do it, since the signal is only on for a few seconds. 

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21 hours ago, Orion V said:

How about outbound 33 bus coming out of the station and left turning onto Spadina Rd from the ROW? Is there a dedicated ROW left turn light or does it have to compete with eastbound St Clair cars making left turn onto Spadina Rd northbound?

Before the ROW, outbound 33 buses simply stayed in the left traffic lane once they left the station. Inbound ones would move from the curb lane to the inbound ramp after their right turn, but it was felt that there was enough distance to make those lane changes safely.

 

Post-ROW, it's as Turtle indicated.

 

Dan

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9 hours ago, Turtle said:

Which is exactly what happens to the streetcars turning east to Adelaide from northbound Spadina on the "snakeeyes" transit signal.

 

A lot of the 126 Cristie drivers use the white bar to proceed straight through the intersection from the streetcar row to westbound St Clair to get a jump on traffic., which is against the hta I think. 

It's not against HTA. That's exactly what that light is there for. Bus can proceed any way it wants. Operator can even turn left onto Vaughan Road if needed. 

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/traffic-lights

 

IMG_20231001_155654.jpg

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3 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

It's not against HTA. That's exactly what that light is there for. Bus can proceed any way it wants.

Lol, good thing I "retired" from there years ago, there are too many different rules to remember

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8 minutes ago, Turtle said:

Lol, good thing I "retired" from there years ago, there are too many different rules to remember

Legal under HTA doesn’t necessary mean the TTC would want their ops to do it. Law and some TTC rules are two different things.


Usually prohibiting signs for everyone are posted when the jurisdiction feels it’s unsafe and people should stop.

Sometimes it takes an accident for changes to occur.

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22 hours ago, Turtle said:

A lot of the 126 Cristie drivers use the white bar to proceed straight through the intersection from the streetcar row to westbound St Clair to get a jump on traffic., which is against the hta I think. Speaking of that, I've seen one streetcar driver go straight through eastbound at Spadina Rd and St Clair on the white bar signal. I have no idea how they managed to accelerate quick enough to do it, since the signal is only on for a few seconds. 

 

9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Legal under HTA doesn’t necessary mean the TTC would want their ops to do it. Law and some TTC rules are two different things.


Usually prohibiting signs for everyone are posted when the jurisdiction feels it’s unsafe and people should stop.

Sometimes it takes an accident for changes to occur.

My recollection from streetcar training was that the TTC prohibited any Straight Thru movements on a White Bar. The White Bar signal was to strictly be used only for turning movements. It has been 13+ years since I did my initial training, and I have since moved to buses, but I doubt that they have changed the policy. I will have to check with someone still working down there.

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5 hours ago, STC125 said:

My recollection from streetcar training was that the TTC prohibited any Straight Thru movements on a White Bar. The White Bar signal was to strictly be used only for turning movements. It has been 13+ years since I did my initial training, and I have since moved to buses, but I doubt that they have changed the policy. I will have to check with someone still working down there.

Yes, white bar at the TTC means right or left turns only.

On 10/1/2023 at 6:46 AM, Turtle said:

A lot of the 126 Cristie drivers use the white bar to proceed straight through the intersection from the streetcar row to westbound St Clair to get a jump on traffic., which is against the hta I think. 

The transit signal WB St Clair at Vaughan has 5 signals (white bar, red, yellow, green, green right arrow). If I recall correctly, the green arrow is for buses to exit the ROW safely, weather turning onto Vaughan or going straight. I can't remember if the white bar comes on at the same time. I don't see the problem with buses using the white bar in the same way as the green arrow as they are given the same amount of protection from WB St Clair traffic as well as pedestrians since all other lights/pedestrian signals stay red. Making the 126 exit on a green light for all traffic is more dangerous since not only is it merging in the middle of the intersection, but it has to get over two lanes to get to the farside stop. 

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ICAMI (In Case Anyone Missed It) and sorry if I posted here - but, the mobile (cell) service onboard the TTC subway system - is now available to Bell and Telus customers.

I've tested it out when I was in Toronto over the weekend - to attend an e-Sports event down at the venue that formerly housed Maple Leaf Gardens (but owned by the Toronto Met University).

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44 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

Question?

For TTC training, do applicants(those for driving bus, streetcar, & subway)do you get trained on all 3 or just the one you apply for?

Only the division the applicant is approved for. If they get approved for bus division, they would be required to pass the training outlined in order to work in that division. The same would apply for streetcar and subway division, the same rule of passing the training would still apply. 

Now, if after a few years and the transit operator wants to move to streetcar or subway division, they would have to go through the same training as a new hire since the setups are different. Streetcar involves operating in mixed traffic on fixed rails where as subway, you would need to understand the signals along with other procedures such as evacuation. 

Each type has a different training process. The applicant doesn't get to choose which division they work for, they are assigned based on need. 

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Question?

Not being from the GTA or living there, I'm just curious as to which transit agencies cross into another Transit agencies area?(excluding GO Transit as it in the GTA and a few places outside the GTA)

IE the TTC going into Mississauga(just assuming, not sure if does or not)things like that?

 

I'm not sure at what point which cities are consider in the GTA that I don't know, but what transit agencies go into each other territory and how far into that territory?

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1 hour ago, MCIBUS said:

Question?

Not being from the GTA or living there, I'm just curious as to which transit agencies cross into another Transit agencies area?(excluding GO Transit as it in the GTA and a few places outside the GTA)

IE the TTC going into Mississauga(just assuming, not sure if does or not)things like that?

 

I'm not sure at what point which cities are consider in the GTA that I don't know, but what transit agencies go into each other territory and how far into that territory?

All local transit systems in the GTA (TTC, YRT/VIVA, DRT, Brampton Transit/ZUM, MiWay,) will have local service that goes into its direct neighboring system (where it shares its border with) and vice versa except the following:
TTC does not go into DRT area and Brampton Transit area.
YRT does not go into DRT and Brampton transit areas
DRT does not go into YRT area

Anything beyond these local systems are not part of the GTA so I won't put them here.

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2 hours ago, Orion V said:

All local transit systems in the GTA (TTC, YRT/VIVA, DRT, Brampton Transit/ZUM, MiWay,) will have local service that goes into its direct neighboring system (where it shares its border with) and vice versa except the following:
TTC does not go into DRT area and Brampton Transit area.
YRT does not go into DRT and Brampton transit areas
DRT does not go into YRT area

Anything beyond these local systems are not part of the GTA so I won't put them here.

YRT ran into Brampton for many years on route 77 for many years (1990-2010). In fact this route was jointly operated by   Vaughan Transit (later YRT) and Brampton Transit.

Connections between some of the local systems are provided by GO.  

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