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Orion V
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https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/Service-Changes/1-Line-1-Yonge-University-Sheppard-Yonge-to-St-Clair-full-weekend-closure-November-5-and-6

Thought with ATC active entirely, there would be no more full weekend closures on the Yonge part of the line.
They call this closure track work. Are they also doing the Line 5 Eglinton Stn construction but forgot to say so?

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11 hours ago, yrt1000 said:

I don’t think so. If it was just for eglinton crosstown it would be closed Lawrence to St. Clair.

I think I’ve noticed there’s routinely been a slow area the NB between Eglinton and Lawrence, maybe that has something to do with it.

Has anyone noticed this door at the northbound platform at Sheppard station? It's at the north end of the station appeared one day. 

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12 hours ago, Orion V said:

https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/Service-Changes/1-Line-1-Yonge-University-Sheppard-Yonge-to-St-Clair-full-weekend-closure-November-5-and-6

Thought with ATC active entirely, there would be no more full weekend closures on the Yonge part of the line.
They call this closure track work. Are they also doing the Line 5 Eglinton Stn construction but forgot to say so?

Despite all of the closures for the ATC/ATO system, there is still trackwork that needs to be done. And yes, they are still doing Crosstown work, and will be for several more months.

 

That they're closing the line south of Sheppard tells me that the trackwork being replaced is at York Mills. If they were only doing trackwork and not just Crosstown, they would run the trains up to Lawrence from the south.

 

Dan

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I find this handmedown complain amusing from the ASP 2023 round one feedback:

handmedown-comment.thumb.png.74ec5927b4581eed457cb24d27dbd491.png

This person clearly didn't like the Orion VIIs 🤣 Only the 33xx has phone charging ports and they barely show up on the 46.

https://ttc-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Documents/Home/About-the-TTC/5_year_plan_10_year_outlook/TTC-2023-ASP-Round-1-Public-Consultation-Summary.pdf?rev=2d9c598f77164945b16b95f99fab78b4&hash=1FFDF115C13993F51E9C625FA2CA3E3F

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Except for weekday rush hours, I'm not sure the 46 ever had a former glory to restore. The off-peak frequencies have always been so bad that you would have to be desperate to choose the 46 over driving. Every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons pre-COVID? Who in their right mind would possibly choose that if they have alternatives?

All of these new buses with their fancy features dispatched on routes in deep Etobicoke and Scarborough have always been putting lipstick on a pig. Make the transit attractive to use before bothering with stupid things like phone charging ports.

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9 minutes ago, T3G said:

Except for weekday rush hours, I'm not sure the 46 ever had a former glory to restore. The off-peak frequencies have always been so bad that you would have to be desperate to choose the 46 over driving. Every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons pre-COVID? Who in their right mind would possibly choose that if they have alternatives?

All of these new buses with their fancy features dispatched on routes in deep Etobicoke and Scarborough have always been putting lipstick on a pig. Make the transit attractive to use before bothering with stupid things like phone charging ports.

 

4 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

I find this handmedown complain amusing from the ASP 2023 round one feedback:

handmedown-comment.thumb.png.74ec5927b4581eed457cb24d27dbd491.png

This person clearly didn't like the Orion VIIs 🤣 Only the 33xx has phone charging ports and they barely show up on the 46.

https://ttc-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Documents/Home/About-the-TTC/5_year_plan_10_year_outlook/TTC-2023-ASP-Round-1-Public-Consultation-Summary.pdf?rev=2d9c598f77164945b16b95f99fab78b4&hash=1FFDF115C13993F51E9C625FA2CA3E3F

It’s because at that time, 46 MARTIN GROVE was out of Arrow Road who had the majority of the 31-33xx LFS and 35-36xx LFS HEVs, along with the XE40s, both models have USB charging ports. It then moved to Queensway when McNicoll opened, who received the majority of the 31xx LFS diesels from Arrow and Birchmount. Arrow Road was also a VII and LFS division as well until the new 31xx came in 2018.

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1 hour ago, T3G said:

Except for weekday rush hours, I'm not sure the 46 ever had a former glory to restore. The off-peak frequencies have always been so bad that you would have to be desperate to choose the 46 over driving. Every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons pre-COVID? Who in their right mind would possibly choose that if they have alternatives?

As someone that regularily rides the 46, i can tell you that the service has become much worse in the last year. The construction at finch + no route management causes the gaps to become terrible. The 46 often ends up looking like this.

Screenshot_20221030-120315~2.png

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3 hours ago, T3G said:

Except for weekday rush hours, I'm not sure the 46 ever had a former glory to restore. The off-peak frequencies have always been so bad that you would have to be desperate to choose the 46 over driving. Every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons pre-COVID? Who in their right mind would possibly choose that if they have alternatives?

All of these new buses with their fancy features dispatched on routes in deep Etobicoke and Scarborough have always been putting lipstick on a pig. Make the transit attractive to use before bothering with stupid things like phone charging ports.

In 2008, the route ran with 6 buses providing a 15 minute midday headway. A bus was reallocated elsewhere soon after that time. The headway was widen to 17 minutes for the so call 6 point intersection detours which happened like 30% of the time. That schedule was made permanent cause operators like that relaxing schedule better. It was bought to 19 minutes for increase reliability. They clearly cheap out and didn't allocate another bus for this Finch West LRT construction. The 401 westbound ramp to Dixon has been closed the whole year now which meant all the cars have to turn onto Martin Grove to get on Dixon. This adds to the congestion that is already the trouble spot heading southbound between Belfield and Dixon.

Weekends midday was also at 15 minutes still reliability and COVID kicked in.

Moving on east to Kipling. Some idiot at transit planning thought it was great to have blend service with 45A and 45B branches. So instead of roughly running every 2 45A's for 1 45B (each branch had it's own headway), it's running ABABAB leaving major gaps when the 945 isn't running during midday. This bought the headway from 10 minutes to 16 minutes during midday.

Onto the next street east, the 37 Islington. In 2008, service was running with at roughly 12 minute headway midday on both branches 37A via Rexdale and 37B to Steeles averaging 6 minutes combined. By 2013 they have decided to reallocate some of the service away. Then COVID happened and now they are running 25 minutes on each branch averaging12.5 minutes. Weekends midday went from 6-7 minutes to 8-9 minutes.

Clearly TTC enjoys shafting Etobicoke transit and moving people to east-west routes to Line 1. 

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41 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

In 2008, the route ran with 6 buses providing a 15 minute midday headway. A bus was reallocated elsewhere soon after that time. The headway was widen to 17 minutes for the so call 6 point intersection detours which happened like 30% of the time. That schedule was made permanent cause operators like that relaxing schedule better. It was bought to 19 minutes for increase reliability. They clearly cheap out and didn't allocate another bus for this Finch West LRT construction. The 401 westbound ramp to Dixon has been closed the whole year now which meant all the cars have to turn onto Martin Grove to get on Dixon. This adds to the congestion that is already the trouble spot heading southbound between Belfield and Dixon.

Weekends midday was also at 15 minutes still reliability and COVID kicked in.

Moving on east to Kipling. Some idiot at transit planning thought it was great to have blend service with 45A and 45B branches. So instead of roughly running every 2 45A's for 1 45B (each branch had it's own headway), it's running ABABAB leaving major gaps when the 945 isn't running during midday. This bought the headway from 10 minutes to 16 minutes during midday.

Onto the next street east, the 37 Islington. In 2008, service was running with at roughly 12 minute headway midday on both branches 37A via Rexdale and 37B to Steeles averaging 6 minutes combined. By 2013 they have decided to reallocate some of the service away. Then COVID happened and now they are running 25 minutes on each branch averaging12.5 minutes. Weekends midday went from 6-7 minutes to 8-9 minutes.

Clearly TTC enjoys shafting Etobicoke transit and moving people to east-west routes to Line 1. 

In short, not everyone is trying to get to the CBD. Not only the TTC, but all North American transit agencies, need to realize this.

3 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

As someone that regularily rides the 46, i can tell you that the service has become much worse in the last year. The construction at finch + no route management causes the gaps to become terrible. The 46 often ends up looking like this.

Screenshot_20221030-120315~2.png

Even around 2015-2016, I once had to wait 40 minutes for it southbound at Finch on a school trip all while more 927s (and even the infrequent YRT route 7!) than I can count on my finger passed by.

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5 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

As someone that regularily rides the 46, i can tell you that the service has become much worse in the last year. The construction at finch + no route management causes the gaps to become terrible. The 46 often ends up looking like this.

Screenshot_20221030-120315~2.png

Route management doesnt exist system wide. I can provide a whole list of routes whose service has been perpetually screwed for years, and frankly it's a joke. Just for fun here's a few:

-7 Bathurst (despite literally running right by transit control)

-50 Burnhamthorpe

-52 Lawrence West

-63 Ossington

-80 Queensway

-501 Queen (The TTC will never get this route managed properly)

-927 Highway 27 Express

 

Supervisors are getting paid handsomely for not being able to manage anything, and transit control is pretty damn inept. Pretty standard stuff from this horridly run organization. Funny thing is they're always begging for more money, but they cant manage the resources they already have.

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16 minutes ago, lip said:

-927 Highway 27 Express

The 927 after 9 pm is probably one of the worst managed routes in the system, and has 40+ minute gaps literally every night. And then the bus finally comes at kipling and cant fit everyone, and also bypasses everyone waiting at east mall. Its been like this for a long time, i have submitted multiple complaints about the 927 service at night on both twitter and ttc.ca, and nothing has been done.

Screenshot_20221030-175414~2.png

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1 hour ago, lip said:

Route management doesnt exist system wide. I can provide a whole list of routes whose service has been perpetually screwed for years, and frankly it's a joke. Just for fun here's a few:

-7 Bathurst (despite literally running right by transit control)

-50 Burnhamthorpe

-52 Lawrence West

-63 Ossington

-80 Queensway

-501 Queen (The TTC will never get this route managed properly)

-927 Highway 27 Express

 

Supervisors are getting paid handsomely for not being able to manage anything, and transit control is pretty damn inept. Pretty standard stuff from this horridly run organization. Funny thing is they're always begging for more money, but they cant manage the resources they already have.

The 50 is especially insulting considering that it's quite a short, local route. If fare integration ever happens, it would be better that it be eliminated and merged into MiWay route 26. At least their route management seems to actually be doing something.

EDIT: redundancy. 35/935 is also a terribly managed route. Every time I wait at Jane Station for it, it is more often than not at least 10 minutes, and the bus is doors closed full up to Eglinton, and often more. The express also gets stuck in traffic and is not much faster than the local due to how many stops it serves. 

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2 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

The 927 after 9 pm is probably one of the worst managed routes in the system, and has 40+ minute gaps literally every night. And then the bus finally comes at kipling and cant fit everyone, and also bypasses everyone waiting at east mall. Its been like this for a long time, i have submitted multiple complaints about the 927 service at night on both twitter and ttc.ca, and nothing has been done.

Screenshot_20221030-175414~2.png

I thought the introduction of VISION was supposed to help manage headways?

Also has anyone noticed the deteriorating conditions of all of our subway stations? 

Leaking ceilings, missing panels, patchwork of repairs here and there, rust forming all over the place. Why is it to hard to maintain our stations in a good state of repair? 

 And the Eglinton bus terminal was a "temporary" solution until the new one can be built.  It's been at least 15 years, what do they consider temporary?

 

I understand that covid out a wrench in a lot of stuff but simple things like broken lights at Don Mills Bus terminal has been like that for months. Half of the lights are broken and doesn't look like there is any initiative to fix them. 

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26 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I thought the introduction of VISION was supposed to help manage headways?

Also has anyone noticed the deteriorating conditions of all of our subway stations? 

Leaking ceilings, missing panels, patchwork of repairs here and there, rust forming all over the place. Why is it to hard to maintain our stations in a good state of repair? 

 And the Eglinton bus terminal was a "temporary" solution until the new one can be built.  It's been at least 15 years, what do they consider temporary?

 

I understand that covid out a wrench in a lot of stuff but simple things like broken lights at Don Mills Bus terminal has been like that for months. Half of the lights are broken and doesn't look like there is any initiative to fix them. 

Can't be worse than NYCMTA during the 70/80s! lol

As for Eglinton, are they even using that temp bus terminal after Line 5 opens when alot of the routes won't run from that station anymore?

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Also has anyone noticed the deteriorating conditions of all of our subway stations? 

Leaking ceilings, missing panels, patchwork of repairs here and there, rust forming all over the place. Why is it to hard to maintain our stations in a good state of repair? 

Stations have aged rather ugly as far as I can remember. It’s not a new problem. Even renovated stations like Union have started to fall apart (ceiling). Those in charge don’t care how the stations look. They just get the bare minimum done to keep them safe.

With TYSSE, I always wondered why we bothered putting so much style and art into the stations when management just lets it all fall into disrepair (look at how shabby some of the original Spadina line stations look).

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

I thought the introduction of VISION was supposed to help manage headways?

That was part of the intent, but of course the TTC cant use a system that has live information on where each vehicle is properly. Which makes it even more baffling how route management has somehow got even worse from the TRUMP unit days.

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4 hours ago, lip said:

Route management doesnt exist system wide. I can provide a whole list of routes whose service has been perpetually screwed for years, and frankly it's a joke. Just for fun here's a few:

-7 Bathurst (despite literally running right by transit control)

-50 Burnhamthorpe

-52 Lawrence West

-63 Ossington

-80 Queensway

-501 Queen (The TTC will never get this route managed properly)

-927 Highway 27 Express

 

Supervisors are getting paid handsomely for not being able to manage anything, and transit control is pretty damn inept. Pretty standard stuff from this horridly run organization. Funny thing is they're always begging for more money, but they cant manage the resources they already have.

There needs to be a special spot reserved for the night routes.  The TTC's favourite excuse for lopsided bunched up service for as long as anyone can remember is traffic congestion yet on weekday nights, no bad weather, no construction, no traffic to the point that I could probably lay down in the middle of Yonge St. and take a nap, the 320 night bus would be totally MIA and then a convoy of five or six would arrive.

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

I thought the introduction of VISION was supposed to help manage headways?

Also has anyone noticed the deteriorating conditions of all of our subway stations? 

Leaking ceilings, missing panels, patchwork of repairs here and there, rust forming all over the place. Why is it to hard to maintain our stations in a good state of repair? 

 And the Eglinton bus terminal was a "temporary" solution until the new one can be built.  It's been at least 15 years, what do they consider temporary?

 

I understand that covid out a wrench in a lot of stuff but simple things like broken lights at Don Mills Bus terminal has been like that for months. Half of the lights are broken and doesn't look like there is any initiative to fix them. 

It's a head scratcher.  The lack of promised improvement with VISION certainly raises questions around what other issues are preventing effective service management since the CIS/TRUMP units are all longe gone but problems remain so obviously it isn't exclusively an old technology problem.  The lack of maintenance on the physical plant is truly disappointing.  After the subway crash in 1995, a lot of time and effort and hard fought for money was invested in turning things around after the overall condition of the TTC slid backwards badly and it's hard watching things slide back again in many respects knowing how bad it got and how hard it was to recover from it.  And yet, the TTC seems to be alright with letting a lot of things go as if the lessons learned have since been forgotten.

I was spending time with friends a few weeks ago and we were talking about the sad state of the TTC and one friend had a theory that John Tory and Rick Leary were delibertely running it into the ground under pressure from Doug Ford in order to pave the way for a Metrolinx takeover.  It's an interesting theory.  Unfortunately, whether or not there's any merit to this theory, John Tory being re-elected is not going to help matters since cheap and nasty with mediocre at best on a good day is how he operates and he's been fine with Rick Leary and how the TTC has been run for a long time.  I don't see any pressure for the TTC to get its act together coming from the mayor's office since Toronto just voted for another four years of more of the same, status quo, business as usual.

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It's all John Tory's fault. Why don't he use his "strong mayor" and hike some damn tax on the richest so he can fix the ongoing budget constraints. Are those route mangers managing one route or 10? The routes need more buses and clearly they are getting overloaded and fall behind on schedule. If there's no RAD buses to spare and the city is constantly gridlocked with traffic, you can't tell the operators to be "slaves" and pissing in a bottle, starve to death and work through their lunch break. 

Yet people handed Tory another term to do nothing and let the TTC starve on operating funds so they can't afford to pay for more runs. The other option is a fare hike which is definitely not a good idea on the approach of a recession.

A metrolinx takeover is an interesting idea but I highly doubt they want to manage any local bus system. Besides having all the buses painted green grey, there is no advantage to that unless they are willing to pay for all the shortfall. 

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32 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

It's all John Tory's fault. Why don't he use his "strong mayor" and hike some damn tax on the richest so he can fix the ongoing budget constraints.

Because that is not how "strong mayor" powers work.  He can only exercise those powers to override council decisions that are contrary to some specific stated provincial priorities.

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9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

It's all John Tory's fault. Why don't he use his "strong mayor" and hike some damn tax on the richest so he can fix the ongoing budget constraints. Are those route mangers managing one route or 10? The routes need more buses and clearly they are getting overloaded and fall behind on schedule. If there's no RAD buses to spare and the city is constantly gridlocked with traffic, you can't tell the operators to be "slaves" and pissing in a bottle, starve to death and work through their lunch break. 

Yet people handed Tory another term to do nothing and let the TTC starve on operating funds so they can't afford to pay for more runs. The other option is a fare hike which is definitely not a good idea on the approach of a recession.

A metrolinx takeover is an interesting idea but I highly doubt they want to manage any local bus system. Besides having all the buses painted green grey, there is no advantage to that unless they are willing to pay for all the shortfall. 

You can blame the Mayor all you want but it comes down to TTC management, and Station Managers. It is their responsibility to ensure that their infrastructure is maintained to status quo. 

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9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

If there's no RAD buses to spare and the city is constantly gridlocked with traffic, you can't tell the operators to be "slaves" and pissing in a bottle, starve to death and work through their lunch break. 

It's not (just) an issue of gridlock, if you take a look at the service summary there are many routes that have little to no terminal time scheduled. If those routes ran perfectly to time, drivers would still be expected to turn around and head back immediately, or very close to that. I have no idea why the union possibly agreed to this, or the lack of lunch breaks, this seems to be about as raw a deal as could possibly exist.

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2 hours ago, T3G said:

It's not (just) an issue of gridlock, if you take a look at the service summary there are many routes that have little to no terminal time scheduled. If those routes ran perfectly to time, drivers would still be expected to turn around and head back immediately, or very close to that. I have no idea why the union possibly agreed to this, or the lack of lunch breaks, this seems to be about as raw a deal as could possibly exist.

The 66B after 7 pm on weekdays is a major example of this. They give 15 minutes each way even though google maps shows it takes 14 minutes to drive in perfect traffic conditions, and they also give zero layover time the entire night. As a result, the single 66B bus is running late almost 100% of the time on weekday nights. 

Screenshot_20221031-124855.png

Screenshot_20221031-120326.png

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5 hours ago, T3G said:

It's not (just) an issue of gridlock, if you take a look at the service summary there are many routes that have little to no terminal time scheduled. If those routes ran perfectly to time, drivers would still be expected to turn around and head back immediately, or very close to that. I have no idea why the union possibly agreed to this, or the lack of lunch breaks, this seems to be about as raw a deal as could possibly exist.

Just because there is no terminal time scheduled doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't ample time to run the route. It just happens to be how they configured the timing on that particular route.

 

As for lunch breaks, you realize that a bus is capable of remaining in service with another driver, right? On a lot of routes the TTC will schedule "step-backs" for operators to take a break or a have a bite.

 

Dan

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I do indeed realize that a bus is capable of being driven by another driver, yes.

The last time this topic was rehashed on this forum some years ago it was indicated that TTC drivers do not get lunch breaks at all, that they are expected to work for the entirety of their shift. Was that information incorrect/has that changed in recent times?

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