Jump to content

Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V
 Share

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Jason_W said:

I've been listening to the Transit Control radio stream for the past couple weeks or so, and I notice a lot of "Red Alarm" responses by the dispatcher, for what are 99% false alarms on the employees radio, "pressed in error" as they referr to it. Are these new Tetra radios that poorly designed that the emergency buttons are so easily pressed?

I dont remember hearing so many when i used to listen on the analog scanner years ago.

Has anyone here seen one of these radios first hand?

Emergency button is on top of the handheld between channel selector and antenna, and on the mitre below the PTT. Pretty much standard positioning across the radio manufacturers and working as designed with little to no resistance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/5/2020 at 8:28 PM, Jason_W said:

I dont remember hearing so many when i used to listen on the analog scanner years ago.

I also monitor the TETRA network, and yes, there are a LOT of these Red Alarm false alarms, and I agree that before on the analog system there were not very many at all.

I suspect that just not a lot of field personnel had the old analog radios. There were only a handful of channels as you may recall on your scanner. Now there are so many different talkgroups (channels) on TETRA, I think myself I must have logged over 100 different ones by now. They can also call each other point to point because each radio has a unique ID.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MK78 said:

I also monitor the TETRA network, and yes, there are a LOT of these Red Alarm false alarms, and I agree that before on the analog system there were not very many at all.

I suspect that just not a lot of field personnel had the old analog radios. There were only a handful of channels as you may recall on your scanner. Now there are so many different talkgroups (channels) on TETRA, I think myself I must have logged over 100 different ones by now. They can also call each other point to point because each radio has a unique ID.

 

Keep in mind the old system, red alarms would only be broadcast on the current channel the user was on, unlike on TETRA where no matter what talkgroup your on, it would simulcast onto the master dispatch console, which is Surface 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, TTC1700 said:

Keep in mind the old system, red alarms would only be broadcast on the current channel the user was on, unlike on TETRA where no matter what talkgroup your on, it would simulcast onto the master dispatch console, which is Surface 1.

Right now it appears that the Red Alarms first trigger a dispatch response on a dedicated channel, TG 60002, and if nobody responds then they try on surface 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've rode the 905 the other day and I noticed that going Westbound towards Kennedy after McCowan it announces Midland as the next stop, is Brimley no longer a stop? Transsee states Danforth is a stop but it does not announce that. Going eastbound it announces, Midland, Brimley, McCowan. But I rode it again the following day and the driver announced after McCowan going WB that the next stop was Danforth. Very confusing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

Anyone know if there’s a maximum designated lifespan for the bus fleets for the TTC

I am wondering how long 2006-2007 Orion Vll fleet will last. I know few of 79xx are retired but I wanna know when will they last until?

The 2006-2007 Orion VIIs will most likely last until 2022-2023 when the new hybrids are delivered. I would assume that more of the NG HEVs will retire around that time as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, raptorjays said:

Anyone know if there’s a maximum designated lifespan for the bus fleets for the TTC

I am wondering how long 2006-2007 Orion Vll fleet will last. I know few of 79xx are retired but I wanna know when will they last until?

TTC has slowly been moving away from a 18-year planned lifespan to something that is closer to what is used in the US - and to what is reasonably expected from things like hybrid and battery-powered buses.

 

All that said.....their current plan is to replace buses not specifically due to age, but rather due to condition of the components and their reliability.

 

The Orion VII Next Gens are currently on the hit list, and following them will likely be the last of the "Old Gen" Orion VIIs in both diesel and hybrid flavours.

 

Dan

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ultimate said:

Riding the 43 home this morning, I noticed that Kennedy / Progress going SB displays "Kennedy Road?" on the next stop screen. Has this always been a thing or is it new with the new 43C branch? 

It’s been like that for a month or two. Before, the 43B would announce just “Progress Ave” for that stop, which didn’t make sense as the bus was already along Progress approaching Kennedy. They change it to announce “Kennedy & Progress Ave” but the displays look like what you saw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/27/2020 at 9:38 AM, smallspy said:

TTC has slowly been moving away from a 18-year planned lifespan to something that is closer to what is used in the US - and to what is reasonably expected from things like hybrid and battery-powered buses.

 

All that said.....their current plan is to replace buses not specifically due to age, but rather due to condition of the components and their reliability.

 

The Orion VII Next Gens are currently on the hit list, and following them will likely be the last of the "Old Gen" Orion VIIs in both diesel and hybrid flavours.

 

Dan

I guess that the Orion Next Gen Hevs will be the first batch of Orions to be retired before the OG diesel and hevs and the Ng Diesels?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it strange the OG HEVs are much more reliable than their NG counterparts. What did Orion screwed up in the newer ones? Software?

Iirc, the reason the 1200s are better than 1500/1700s are because they have older more reliable software? Can the same be said about the 1000s?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/27/2020 at 9:38 AM, smallspy said:

TTC has slowly been moving away from a 18-year planned lifespan to something that is closer to what is used in the US - and to what is reasonably expected from things like hybrid and battery-powered buses.

It'll be interesting to see if they may alter their plans, due to the pandemic and probably funding fallout from it for many years.

Weren't most if not all the Nova's bought with the help of federal funds?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Orion V said:

I find it strange the OG HEVs are much more reliable than their NG counterparts. What did Orion screwed up in the newer ones? Software?

Iirc, the reason the 1200s are better than 1500/1700s are because they have older more reliable software? Can the same be said about the 1000s?

According to the wiki, almost all of the 1200-1423 buses were rebuilt. The later hybrids were not rebuilt. I would assume that a lot of the difference is right there, and that the later NG HEV buses would retire later than the earlier HEVs if all of them had been through the same maintenance procedures. In other words, an older but rebuilt HEV is better than a newer one that's about ready for a rebuild, but (as has been discovered) not really worth rebuilding.

That would not explain rebuilt OG HEVs outlasting NG HEVs, unless there was a difference in the rebuilt. Perhaps Bus Medic would have some info here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The 905 now has a new fancy annoucement, with the recent removal of Brimley as one of the service stops and the addition of Danforth it now announces, "Next stop Danforth Road This is an express vehicle Brimley road no longer severed" 

Also it seems Kennedy station is returning to normal soon, the old exit for routes that go east out of Kennedy station looks to be reopening very soon as the road is all paved and ready. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/30/2020 at 7:45 AM, Ed T. said:

According to the wiki, almost all of the 1200-1423 buses were rebuilt. The later hybrids were not rebuilt. I would assume that a lot of the difference is right there, and that the later NG HEV buses would retire later than the earlier HEVs if all of them had been through the same maintenance procedures. In other words, an older but rebuilt HEV is better than a newer one that's about ready for a rebuild, but (as has been discovered) not really worth rebuilding.

That would not explain rebuilt OG HEVs outlasting NG HEVs, unless there was a difference in the rebuilt. Perhaps Bus Medic would have some info here.

The 1200s and 1500s are identical. In fact the early 1500s arrived earlier than the upper range from 1370+.

The only reason why the got rebuilt is because that was planned and being prepared while they got new funds to buy Novas to replace the NGs. So the 1200s went forward while most 1500s didn't. There's only minor difference with the 1700s.

On 11/30/2020 at 7:45 AM, Ed T. said:

According to the wiki, almost all of the 1200-1423 buses were rebuilt. The later hybrids were not rebuilt. I would assume that a lot of the difference is right there, and that the later NG HEV buses would retire later than the earlier HEVs if all of them had been through the same maintenance procedures. In other words, an older but rebuilt HEV is better than a newer one that's about ready for a rebuild, but (as has been discovered) not really worth rebuilding.

That would not explain rebuilt OG HEVs outlasting NG HEVs, unless there was a difference in the rebuilt. Perhaps Bus Medic would have some info here.

The 1200s and 1500s are identical. In fact the early 1500s arrived earlier than the upper range from 1370+.

The only reason why the got rebuilt is because that was planned and being prepared while they got new funds to buy Novas to replace the NGs. So the 1200s went forward while most 1500s didn't. There's only minor difference with the 1700s.

On 11/30/2020 at 7:45 AM, Ed T. said:

According to the wiki, almost all of the 1200-1423 buses were rebuilt. The later hybrids were not rebuilt. I would assume that a lot of the difference is right there, and that the later NG HEV buses would retire later than the earlier HEVs if all of them had been through the same maintenance procedures. In other words, an older but rebuilt HEV is better than a newer one that's about ready for a rebuild, but (as has been discovered) not really worth rebuilding.

That would not explain rebuilt OG HEVs outlasting NG HEVs, unless there was a difference in the rebuilt. Perhaps Bus Medic would have some info here.

The 1200s and 1500s are identical. In fact the early 1500s arrived earlier than the upper range from 1370+.

The only reason why the got rebuilt is because that was planned and being prepared while they got new funds to buy Novas to replace the NGs. So the 1200s went forward while most 1500s didn't. There's only minor difference with the 1700s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1200-1684 used an older revision of the PCS that was slightly more reliable. Starting with 1685 (and carrying over to the 1700s), they moved to a new PCS which was slightly less reliable. In addition, the major reason why they specifically chose to rebuild the 1200s instead (while they were still deciding to keep some NGs and retire the others) was because of the PCS reliability. They later did some 1500s too but those rebuilds are a bit more limited in terms of scope.

None of the 1500s actually got a full rebuild. They merely had repaints, some body work, and a replaced engine on some (according to an old post on here from three years ago, albeit done before the actual refurbishment), but that was it (no new rear doors on any of them either). In addition to that, the 1200s that were rebuilt got new rear doors and modified heaters, as well as an entirely rebuilt powertrain (which explains the bumpers having fleet numbers that are not the same as the recipient body they're put in). I'm not sure what else was done with the 1200s or the 1500s. 

It's not specifically the rebuilds that made the earlier ones more reliable, but due to the PCS revision on the 1700s instead.

I thought the Novas were supposed to replace the S50 OGs? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, OC Transpo/STO Fan said:

They merely had repaints, some body work, and a replaced engine on some (according to an old post on here from three years ago, albeit done before the actual refurbishment), but that was it (no new rear doors on any of them either).

1553 managed to get new rear doors off of repair work outside of the refurbishment 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good evening everybody.  I meant to write this post earlier but I had a number of things I had to deal with so I'm only getting to it now.

This is kind of a bookend followup post to the one I did on October 26 about the Gloucester retirement in 1990.  25 years, a quarter century ago this evening on Friday, December 8, 1995, was when the last of the TTC's PCC cars were retired from regular service when 4611 finished a short turn 506 run and the last passengers disembarked before it ran into the Roncesvalles Carhouse.  This closed out an entire era of older vehicles that began with the Gloucester retirement in 1990.

From a 1990 perspective, everyone knew that the end of the G trains was coming because the H6 cars had been ordered in the early 1980s, delivered in the mid-80s and the original plan called for the Gloucesters to be retired several years earlier except the H6 cars turned out to have severe teething pains and the TTC had to keep the Gloucesters running longer than expected.  The fact that the last of them made it most of the way through 1990 was a bonus.  But in 1990, even as the last of the G trains were making their final runs, the future still looked good for the PCC cars.  The 604 Harbourfront line had opened and PCCs were running all the service on it, the Spadina line was on the drawing boards and heading towards construction, and the A-15 program was still going with Hillcrest taking in A8 cars and rebuilding them into the A-15s that were intended to provide vehicles for those lines.  Everyone thought with the new lines and the rebuild program that the PCCs still had a future in front of them albeit with a smaller fleet of 23 rebuilt cars.  Nobody would have expected the PCCs to be completely gone in five years time, before the Spadina line even opened.

Most of the 1980s were an economic boom which lasted until around 1991, and then a brutal, deep recession happened.  It was almost as if the music stopped playing and a lot of people suddenly found themselves without chairs.  House prices, in a way that's been unthinkable for people today, actually went down.  People ended up underwater on their mortgages.  Downtown became a ghost town.  After 5:00 PM, when the remaining office workers went home, there was hardly anyone around on the sidewalks or in the PATH.  Radio stations were beating the "Don't Worry, Be Happy" song to death playing it all the time as if that would somehow make a difference.  In many ways, the lockdown at the start of the pandemic back in the early spring was eerily reminiscent of how desolate and deserted downtown was during the recession.  Even "Don't Worry, Be Happy" started showing up on the radio again and I complained to a friend that the song only gets played when the world's ending.  During that recession, as with the pandemic, the TTC's volume of ridership dropped by a huge amount.  Surface vehicles that ran frequent service and were always full no longer were, the Yonge subway which had been running over capacity and was packed during rush hour prompting the creation of the 14x downtown premium express bus routes was no longer stuffed to the gills and the urgent need for the downtown relief line faded away.

Even so, despite the last of the 1970s heavy rebuild PCC being retired in 1991, the shops at Hillcrest were still taking in A8s that had been allocated to the rebuild program and turning out A15s.  Several signs of trouble began to emerge though.  Ridership remained persistently low and the TTC suspended the rebuild program in 1992 after 4618 was completed.  The TTC hedged their bets for a while and kept the remaining A8s that had been allocated to the rebuild program on the property so if the need arose and the order came down, the shops at Hillcrest could pick up where they left off.  However, it eventually became clear that with ridership plummeting then going sideways, service being cut system-wide, there were enough streetcars on hand even with the Spadina line coming up that the order to resume the rebuild program was never going to come.  Instead, it was cancelled and the unrebuilt A8s that were waiting to go through Hillcrest were scrapped with only 19 of the planned 23 cars being completed.

The Harbourfront line, where a minimum of four PCC cars were running for the whole service day, was generating complaints about wheel noise with condo owners.  Even with noise mitigation measures like flange lubrication and feeding water into the flangeways in the Spadina loop, CLRVs replaced the PCCs and there was no more full time, all PCC line in Toronto.  This resulted in the PCCs primarily being used only in the rush hours and on the on again/off again Tour Tram although they'd occasionally be taken out on base service all day runs.  One of my friends speculated that the decision to retire the PCC cars might not have been as easy to make if there were the minimum four cars running for the whole service day on the Harbourfront plus several more in rush hour on the other lines but the basis for that argument ended once the CLRV replacement on 604 took place.

Also in the context of 1995, as Canada was slowly climbing out of that horrible recession that wrecked the first half of the decade, there was a strong out with the old, in with the new mentality.  Multimedia computers were a big deal.  While Microsoft was hyping Windows 95, IBM was hoping people were going to get Warped with OS/2, and Apple was updating System 7.  Upgrading to the latest and greatest with everything, not just computers, was a big deal.  If you had a new computer, dialup internet access billed by the hour brought the information superhighway screaming down the phone line into your home at a mighty 28.8 kilobits per second.  Websites were being optimized for Netscape 2.0.  Don't have it?  Click the "Netscape Now!" button to get it.  People were repurchasing their entire music collections on CDs to get their music digitally and giving away their records, sometimes even throwing them away.  If you wanted to watch TV, you scrapped the antenna and got cable or a direct-to-home satellite pizza dish on the side of your house even if you had to get a grey market American one with a billing address in Buffalo to do it because the CRTC hadn't approved any Canadian services yet.  Streetcars built in the early post-war years to a design from the middle of the 1940s weren't retro or cool, they didn't fit in, there was no place for them in an era of upgrading to the newest, latest, greatest everything, they were just old.  Add some cold, utilitarian efficiencies of reduced parts inventory and overhead in training and maintenance, mathematically enough CLRVs and ALRVs to run the streetcar system including the Spadina line that was under construction with the reduced overall service levels of the time, the arguments to retire the PCCs was much easier to see than the value in keeping them even though the newest cars out of the rebuild program were barely three years old.  The decision to lower the boom on them was made.

Unlike when the Gloucesters and trolleybuses were retired quietly without any fanfare, the PCC retirement was different and the TTC did a final fling with them for the week with ceremonial last runs for the public and a special with two cars taking kids from a school for a last ride.  The final run that brought it to an end was a 506 short turn that ran from Main station to Roncesvalles.  Also unlike the other retirements, the PCCs aren't completely gone.  The 17 regular rebuilt A-15s have all ended up in museums and Kenosha, and none were scrapped while the TTC kept 4500 and 4549 for charters and special events.  While it's still possible to ride a PCC in Toronto, after 4611 completed that last run from Main station down to Roncesvalles and Queen where the passengers on board climbed down the steps and exited for the last time and brought regular service to a close 25 years ago tonight, everything since then has been a limited, special engagement for the two remaining cars out of what was once the world's largest fleet of PCCs.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/8/2020 at 10:14 AM, Ultimate said:

Also it seems Kennedy station is returning to normal soon, the old exit for routes that go east out of Kennedy station looks to be reopening very soon as the road is all paved and ready. 

Past by Kennedy Station this afternoon. They've reopened South Service Rd. Buses are using it to enter and exit the station. I didn't read the turn restriction sign but it might be bus only access too. Not sure if North Service Rd is still being used.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wil9402 said:

Past by Kennedy Station this afternoon. They've reopened South Service Rd. Buses are using it to enter and exit the station. I didn't read the turn restriction sign but it might be bus only access too. Not sure if North Service Rd is still being used.

Nice. I haven't been going thru Kennedy at all since returning to work I've been taking 12D/503 exclusively, completely avoiding Kennedy & the subway. with so little load on the 12D/503 it makes more sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...