Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Wayside Observer]

On the off chance anybody’s interested, here are a couple of pictures of the FPT PCC car measurements demo I did on the bench since access to the real thing for a 1:1 scale real live example is severely restricted right now.  The same principles apply to TTC PCCs so nobody get into a snit about the off topic.

The rig.

One if these is not like the other.

When resistance values get small, the four wire Kelvin setup is the way to go.  Two wire measurements give bogus results. Those of you who have been reading your vintage GE and WH publications know why that’s an issue with transit equipment.

A real PCC car would’ve been more fun.

[ZümmyZüm]

Question for the mechanically inclined people here, the Nova LFS with the rear door push bar I’ve noticed has different response times on different agencies. OC Transpo for example when the rear door interlock is engaged the back doors have a 2-4 second delay to actually engage ( green light on ) whereas the TTCs seem to have no delay at all, bus stops, interlock switch on and green light simultaneously and open door. Is there a program attached with this delay? The curiosity had been getting to me 

[Xtrazsteve]

44 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Question for the mechanically inclined people here, the Nova LFS with the rear door push bar I’ve noticed has different response times on different agencies. OC Transpo for example when the rear door interlock is engaged the back doors have a 2-4 second delay to actually engage ( green light on ) whereas the TTCs seem to have no delay at all, bus stops, interlock switch on and green light simultaneously and open door. Is there a program attached with this delay? The curiosity had been getting to me 

Try an artic or the 8xxx novas, you'll see a huge difference compared the the 3xxx newer ones. The older is a mechanical control while the newer is electronically controlled. 

[ZümmyZüm]

9 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Try an artic or the 8xxx novas, you'll see a huge difference compared the the 3xxx newer ones. The older is a mechanical control while the newer is electronically controlled. 

True, I should be more specific, diesel 40ft with air doors and not electric, are the newest 3xxx much faster with the rear door compared to their older counterparts? 

[Shemar]

3 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

True, I should be more specific, diesel 40ft with air doors and not electric, are the newest 3xxx much faster with the rear door compared to their older counterparts? 

Yes the electric powered rear doors are faster than the air controlled ones.

[Bus_Medic]

5 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Try an artic or the 8xxx novas, you'll see a huge difference compared the the 3xxx newer ones. The older is a mechanical control while the newer is electronically controlled. 

The air engines are triggered by electric solenoid valves, at the doors themselves,  so the control circuit is almost identical.

air lines haven’t been routed through the handle since the Orion V.

6 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Question for the mechanically inclined people here, the Nova LFS with the rear door push bar I’ve noticed has different response times on different agencies. OC Transpo for example when the rear door interlock is engaged the back doors have a 2-4 second delay to actually engage ( green light on ) whereas the TTCs seem to have no delay at all, bus stops, interlock switch on and green light simultaneously and open door. Is there a program attached with this delay? The curiosity had been getting to me 

All those parameters are theoretically customizable in the multiplex software.

[Transitfan39]

Is it normal that TTC ships the Toronto Streetcars to Bombardier? The reason I asked this is because this weekend I saw 2 streetcars being shipped by freight in south shore Montreal, the first was 4418 and the latest was 4410 and I was shocked that I saw 2 different streetcars in 3 days 

[nfitz]

1 hour ago, Transitfan39 said:

Is it normal that TTC ships the Toronto Streetcars to Bombardier? The reason I asked this is because this weekend I saw 2 streetcars being shipped by freight in south shore Montreal, the first was 4418 and the latest was 4410 and I was shocked that I saw 2 different streetcars in 3 days 

About 60 or so of the earlier ones are going to La Pocatiere from Toronto for warranty repairs on the shoddy Bombardier Mexico welding. With the state of emergency, they recently decided to send more at once, because less are in service - so there's been more than usual heading out in recent days. Used to be only 6 or 7 at once, but I think it's supposed to be near double that for a few months.

There's a running commentary in the end of:

 

[Ed T.]

This motivated me to look up exactly where La Pocatière is. It's on the south shore of the St Lawrence (river or gulf), maybe 50 or 60 km east (north-east) of Québec. It's a nice sunny 22º there right now.

[MCIBUS]

Question?

Not being from the GTA and rarely ride the TTC Subway, I'm just curious as to how well lit the tunnels are?Also if the subway stalls in the tunnel is there a small walk way in the tunnel so people can walk to the next station?

 

I'm not sure how many here in the Toronto forum have been to Ottawa or have seen are LRT 's tunnel but it's very well lit and there's a small little "sidewalk" where passengers can get off the LRT if stalls in the tunnel so they can access the next station, if anyone's seen it, that's what I'm talking about?

[nfitz]

Depends on the age of the tunnel. Tunnels built this century are similar to Ottawa, as per the Ontario building code.

It's certainly bright enough to see in the older tunnels - but not as bright. But no walking paths like that.

[MCIBUS]

Thanks for the info

[smallspy]

17 hours ago, nfitz said:

Depends on the age of the tunnel. Tunnels built this century are similar to Ottawa, as per the Ontario building code.

It's certainly bright enough to see in the older tunnels - but not as bright. But no walking paths like that.

It should also be noted that if a train needs to be evacuated from within a tunnel - and particularly an older one - the primary means of egress is via the end doors of each train, not from the side doors. People would then walk in the gauge - between the running rails - to the next available point from which they could leave the tunnel.

 

And because of this, the TTC's own standards call for a bare minimum of equipment to be installed between the rails to minimize the number of tripping hazards.

 

Dan

[John Oke]

What’s everyone’s least favourite bus route in Toronto? Mine’s the 94

[lip]

On 7/12/2020 at 2:47 PM, John Oke said:

What’s everyone’s least favourite bus route in Toronto? Mine’s the 94

Sure i'll play:

-80 Queensway is a joke with its 30 minute headways

-52 Lawrence West has one of the most irreliable service i've seen out of any route in the city

-501 Queen as the TTC still cant operate the route properly along the central portion

*These are all pre-pandemic notes

[Mike]

3 hours ago, lip said:

-52 Lawrence West has one of the most irreliable service i've seen out of any route in the city

Irreliable, eh?   That is a new word. :)

[lip]

23 minutes ago, Mike said:

Irreliable, eh?   That is a new word.

Guess I can be pretty innovative every now and again, I'll be sure to submit to Webster's Dictionary for consideration.

[Kobayashi]

Question on routes shared by two divisions: Since Mount Dennis opened, apart from the 35/95 and Blue Night/Streetcar shuttles, why did the TTC stopped from having two divisions from operating one route (e.g., 54) or branches of a route (e.g. 7/7G at Wilson, 7A/B at Davenport). 

How does the TTC run daytime bus routes that are shared between two divisions? For example, before 2008: 32 EGLINTON WEST/52 LAWRENCE WEST (Queensway/Wilson), 37 ISLINGTON/45 KIPLING (Arrow/Queensway), 54 LAWRENCE EAST (Comstock/Malvern), 60 STEELES WEST (Arrow/Wilson), 77 SWANSEA/79 SCARLETT ROAD (Arrow/Queensway) 110 ISLINGTON SOUTH (Arrow/Queensway) and 87 COSBURN/113 DANFORTH (Birchmount/Comstock).

Even if McNicoll opens, will the post-2008 arrangement remain unchanged to have one route operate only in one division? Perhaps I do not see shared daytime routes are being reintroduced anytime soon.

[TTC103]

1 hour ago, Express Network said:

Question on routes shared by two divisions: Since Mount Dennis opened, apart from the 35/95 and Blue Night/Streetcar shuttles, why did the TTC stopped from having two divisions from operating one route (e.g., 54) or branches of a route (e.g. 7/7G at Wilson, 7A/B at Davenport). 

How does the TTC run daytime bus routes that are shared between two divisions? For example, before 2008: 32 EGLINTON WEST/52 LAWRENCE WEST (Queensway/Wilson), 37 ISLINGTON/45 KIPLING (Arrow/Queensway), 54 LAWRENCE EAST (Comstock/Malvern), 60 STEELES WEST (Arrow/Wilson), 77 SWANSEA/79 SCARLETT ROAD (Arrow/Queensway) 110 ISLINGTON SOUTH (Arrow/Queensway) and 87 COSBURN/113 DANFORTH (Birchmount/Comstock).

Even if McNicoll opens, will the post-2008 arrangement remain unchanged to have one route operate only in one division? Perhaps I do not see shared daytime routes are being reintroduced anytime soon.

From what I have heard (from operators), it has to do with the fact that the TTC now prefers to use street changes (instead of short-turns) to get vehicles back on time when they are running late. Operating routes out of a single division gives supervisors maximum flexibility, as it ensures that all operators on the route are qualified to operate all bus models on the route.

 

For example, in the case of the 95 York Mills, Malvern operators may not be trained on the VII diesels, and Wilson operators may not be trained on LFS hybrids. This would impose an operational constraint, as it makes certain street changes impossible compared to keeping the route at one division.

[Someguy3071]

Short turns still happen but not very often. 

[nfitz]

9 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Short turns still happen but not very often. 

It's mostly as a result of accident-related delays, etc., these days.

[leylandvictory2]

19 hours ago, TTC103 said:

From what I have heard (from operators), it has to do with the fact that the TTC now prefers to use street changes (instead of short-turns) to get vehicles back on time when they are running late. Operating routes out of a single division gives supervisors maximum flexibility, as it ensures that all operators on the route are qualified to operate all bus models on the route.

 

For example, in the case of the 95 York Mills, Malvern operators may not be trained on the VII diesels, and Wilson operators may not be trained on LFS hybrids. This would impose an operational constraint, as it makes certain street changes impossible compared to keeping the route at one division.

you forgot each division has stand by buses to do the Street changeover if needed.  

[John Oke]

Does anyone think that the TTC will meet the September 2022 deadline for ATC completion on Line 1? I kind of doubt it but who knows. Currently ATC is between Vaughan and Queen with expected extension up to Rosedale in November of this year and then from Rosedale to Eglinton in November 2021 and then completion in September 2021 from Eglinton to Finch. 

[MCIBUS]

TTC GM NEW LOOK ARTIC?

 

Question?

I know the TTC had GM New Look Artics back in the 1980's just like Ottawa, Hamilton & Mississauga I know when they first got them they had silver stainless steel lower panels.(I believe)

 

But?

Later did some get all white lower panels(I'm guessing after rebuild?) I saw a pic but I can't tell if the lower half is white or stainless steel silver panels? the angle of the pic is hard to tell?

 

The reason I ask is I got 3 Gm New Look artics 1:43 scale models from Vector Metal Works Models 2 OC Transpo(Red Stripe 8201 & 8222  paint scheme )1 Mississauga paint scheme. I want to do the last one in TTC colours either in silver lower half or if they have white in lower half? Not sure yet which to do it in? 

[Bus_Medic]

2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

TTC GM NEW LOOK ARTIC?

 

Question?

I know the TTC had GM New Look Artics back in the 1980's just like Ottawa, Hamilton & Mississauga I know when they first got them they had silver stainless steel lower panels.(I believe)

 

But?

Later did some get all white lower panels(I'm guessing after rebuild?) I saw a pic but I can't tell if the lower half is white or stainless steel silver panels? the angle of the pic is hard to tell?

 

The reason I ask is I got 3 Gm New Look artics 1:43 scale models from Vector Metal Works Models 2 OC Transpo(Red Stripe 8201 & 8222  paint scheme )1 Mississauga paint scheme. I want to do the last one in TTC colours either in silver lower half or if they have white in lower half? Not sure yet which to do it in? 

They were purged from the fleet by the mid 1980s and never received any paint mods from original.