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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V
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Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

 

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I would imagine that more visible law enforcement presence would help. People act out more when they think they will face no consequences. Of course it won't eliminate all the riff-raff, but it may cause people to think twice before doing their unsavoury activity.

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

 

 

When 80% or more of your riders have vanished, fare evasion is the least of your worries.

I'd like a more reliable citation than "I've heard over the radio" for the other problems you list.

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48 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

 

I'd like a more reliable citation than "I've heard over the radio" for the other problems you list.

Well it's not like there's other ways to get information now, especially that there are no board meetings.

I'm just sharing what i've heard monitoring the TETRA system, surface supervisors, subway stations managers, transit enforcement channels... Believe what you will.

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

I wonder if it'll actually become less of an issue as things reopen.  Right now, for the most part, the subway's pretty empty by all accounts which probably means the people pulling this crap are probably doing it because they think they can get away with it "because no one's around", or at least very few people are around.  Start returning to more populated levels of occupation and the disincentive to pull this sort of thing in public goes down.  Remember this stuff wasn't nearly as rampant pre-COVID-19 when the TTC was packed as usual.

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3 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

I wonder if it'll actually become less of an issue as things reopen.  Right now, for the most part, the subway's pretty empty by all accounts which probably means the people pulling this crap are probably doing it because they think they can get away with it "because no one's around", or at least very few people are around.  Start returning to more populated levels of occupation and the disincentive to pull this sort of thing in public goes down.  Remember this stuff wasn't nearly as rampant pre-COVID-19 when the TTC was packed as usual.

Yeah, but I think these people are getting in far easier now, because of the rear door boarding policy, and no enforcement on streetcars, and heck, probably just walking into stations as is if they don't see any TTC enforcement officers.

I'm just curious what might happen once more people are back to using the system, that includes myself once my work resumes.

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23 hours ago, MK78 said:

Well it's not like there's other ways to get information now, especially that there are no board meetings.

I'm just sharing what i've heard monitoring the TETRA system, surface supervisors, subway stations managers, transit enforcement channels... Believe what you will.

 

Your sources are at least better than people ranting on talk radio. But I'd like to see some actual statistics. There was all kinds of bad behaviour on the system in the Before Time.

I see two claims here that might be problematic:

  1. Problems with bad behaviour, from vandalism and drug use to what might be mental health episodes, has increased since the lockdown
  2. The homeless and drug-dependent are the usual suspects

It's possible that the homeless and the drug-dependent stayed away from the TTC in the Before Times, and now have decided to all hang out there. But there were problems in the past anyway, and I don't see why an emptier system would cause an increase in bad behaviour.

There's already a large industry which tells everyone that taking public transit simply exposes you to crazy people and crime and disease; you should be in your own car like a decent human being. It doesn't need being added to unnecessarily.

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I dont know even if they make any such statistics public, it would probably be a PR nightmare with the kind of people that get upset about everything.

But I've been listening to the TTC on the scanner for over 8 years now, and I've heard it all before, but it has definitely increased since the outbreak. Today some guy tried to attack the driver on a Jane bus, trying to rip off the shield. They didnt say anything if anything happened to the operator or not, but I think the TTC will need to explore full driver shields before any sort of front door loading is allowed again, not just because of the virus, but the number of assaults will probably increase as time goes on with more people losing their marbles due to various effects of the pandemic on society.

I truly feel bad for the TTC staff having to deal with it all now.

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On 5/7/2020 at 3:41 PM, Ed T. said:

 

Your sources are at least better than people ranting on talk radio. But I'd like to see some actual statistics. There was all kinds of bad behaviour on the system in the Before Time.

I see two claims here that might be problematic:

  1. Problems with bad behaviour, from vandalism and drug use to what might be mental health episodes, has increased since the lockdown
  2. The homeless and drug-dependent are the usual suspects

It's possible that the homeless and the drug-dependent stayed away from the TTC in the Before Times, and now have decided to all hang out there. But there were problems in the past anyway, and I don't see why an emptier system would cause an increase in bad behaviour.

There's already a large industry which tells everyone that taking public transit simply exposes you to crazy people and crime and disease; you should be in your own car like a decent human being. It doesn't need being added to unnecessarily.

The reason they homeless are seen more now on the TTC during Covid is they used to hang out in other public places also fast food joints and malls that are now closed so no where for them to go but the TTC

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1 hour ago, TheAverageJoe said:

The reason they homeless are seen more now on the TTC during Covid is they used to hang out in other public places also fast food joints and malls that are now closed so no where for them to go but the TTC

Are you seeing more homeless on TTC? I've not seen any recently - but my sample size is smaller than usual.

To my surprise though, I've been walking downtown occasionally, and haven't seen any. There seemed more around in mid- and late- March, just as this was getting going. I was giving out $5 bills all over the place. And then none recently, where there normally is some. I did see one up on Danforth the other day ...

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3 hours ago, nfitz said:

Are you seeing more homeless on TTC? I've not seen any recently - but my sample size is smaller than usual.

To my surprise though, I've been walking downtown occasionally, and haven't seen any. There seemed more around in mid- and late- March, just as this was getting going. I was giving out $5 bills all over the place. And then none recently, where there normally is some. I did see one up on Danforth the other day ...

I have been seeing more then there used to be cause they dont have the places to go but stay in the system. Also TTC's hands are kinda of tied as the police cant really do anything to them unless they are violent . They are mostly staying in the subway system and in the stations

 

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21 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

They are mostly staying in the subway system and in the stations

There's always some in the stations - but I haven't been in any of the stations since March - so I haven't observed.

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There's a stream you can listen to, easy enough to find, not sure if its appropriate to post a link here. Earlier I was listening about a woman who was going up and down trains on L1 tearing down the COVID-19 social distancing signage...

People are all kinds of crazy now.

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15 hours ago, MK78 said:

There's a stream you can listen to, easy enough to find, not sure if its appropriate to post a link here. Earlier I was listening about a woman who was going up and down trains on L1 tearing down the COVID-19 social distancing signage...

People are all kinds of crazy now.

https://twitter.com/that_crazy_meg/status/1259683599068119043

https://twitter.com/that_crazy_meg/status/1259685329138855949

I've seen her around before, never noticed her causing any trouble until this

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20 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's always some in the stations - but I haven't been in any of the stations since March - so I haven't observed.

Yes there has but there is more then normal since I use the system still everyday for work. Also more just laying out on the trains then normal

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1 hour ago, Turtle said:

They say she's a regular doing this. And they had a helluva time getting to her, without holding service. she was jumping on and off back and forth.

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12 hours ago, MK78 said:

They say she's a regular doing this. And they had a helluva time getting to her, without holding service. she was jumping on and off back and forth.

If they really want to get her, they would but they need some emergency acts to throw her in jail for breaking criminal law or it's pointless.

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I am wondering if they are extending the 90 day period for Presto Cards to expire.  Since a lot of us have not used public transport for a while, by the time we get back to using it again the 90 days would be up.  So will we all need to top up or buy new cards? Or will they extend the expiry? I haven't seen anything about it on the presto site. 

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54 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I am wondering if they are extending the 90 day period for Presto Cards to expire.  Since a lot of us have not used public transport for a while, by the time we get back to using it again the 90 days would be up.  So will we all need to top up or buy new cards? Or will they extend the expiry? I haven't seen anything about it on the presto site. 

Presto cards don't expire. Only the presto tickets for the TTC expires and those could be exchanged for up to a year supposedly. 

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As the RAD buses have been roaming since the start of the board, were these buses from other divisions being used on other routes since the 900-series Express is still suspended? There have been a number of hybrids on 7, 24 and 25 this week.

7 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

AFAIK the expiry date on the older cards was never implemented but is actually the warranty expiry date. 

How long does the warranty last on the cards?

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