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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V
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2 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

There was no clarification needed. It's been the same way since the 2 hour transfer was introduced. Did you have the same concerns using a paper transfer? Probably not, so why freak out over Presto transfer? One clueless guy overreacts on Twitter and all the sheep follow 🤦

Well that original reply was from official TTC so how the hell would I know if they unofficially changed it and told their ticket enforcement people to do that. That was my being proactive instead of being reactive to the now deemed incorrect reply by the TTC themselves.

The original paper transfer didn't have the same rule as the Presto card. It didn't even allow the 2h transfer of unlimited travel.

And clearly TTC knew their reply had inaccurate information hence they posted another reply so fast and it went over the news this  morning so everyone sees it.

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1 hour ago, Orion V said:

Well that original reply was from official TTC so how the hell would I know if they unofficially changed it and told their ticket enforcement people to do that. That was my being proactive instead of being reactive to the now deemed incorrect reply by the TTC themselves.

The original paper transfer didn't have the same rule as the Presto card. It didn't even allow the 2h transfer of unlimited travel.

And clearly TTC knew their reply had inaccurate information hence they posted another reply so fast and it went over the news this  morning so everyone sees it.

Clueless people made this an issue that had to be cleared up. Everyone else seems to understand how it works. 

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11 minutes ago, Someguy3071 said:

Clueless people made this an issue that had to be cleared up. Everyone else seems to understand how it works. 

TTC Helps literally tweeted to multiple people yesterday that the 2 hour rule only entitles you to two hours of service, and after 2 hours you were expected to exit the vehicle and retap. The tweets have since been removed with the clarification.

I can understand why everyone was suddenly up in arms.

 

Found some screencaps/tweets that led to the confusion:

https://twitter.com/MetroManTO/status/1233911063667605504/photo/2

https://twitter.com/TTChelps/status/1233916147105509376

 

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6 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

I've no idea why they were tweeting the now deleted false information on Saturday - but this article seems correct, concluding "As long as you tap every time you board a vehicle, you should be safe and automatically charged accordingly".

 

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I've no idea why they were tweeting the now deleted false information on Saturday - but this article seems correct, concluding "As long as you tap every time you board a vehicle, you should be safe and automatically charged accordingly".

 

Here's a scenario I thought of that infringes on the grey area of the rule. Feel free to correct me of I'm wrong.

Do you tap on a streetcar route even if you board it inside a fare paid zone at a subway station?
Say your Presto 2h expired 5min ago and you reached Boardview Stn either by bus (not 505 bus) or subway. If you tap on that 504 streetcar, it'll charge you a new fare for sure but technically you are boarding that streetcar from inside a subway fare paid zone.
Now after 3 stops, what if the enforcers come on that 504 streetcar and check your Presto card and seen you last tap at some other TTC route or subway station that is not Broadview Stn nor the 504 car you are currently on...

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24 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

Here's a scenario I thought of that infringes on the grey area of the rule. Feel free to correct me of I'm wrong.

Do you tap on a streetcar route even if you board it inside a fare paid zone at a subway station?
Say your Presto 2h expired 5min ago and you reached Boardview Stn either by bus (not 505 bus) or subway. If you tap on that 504 streetcar, it'll charge you a new fare for sure but technically you are boarding that streetcar from inside a subway fare paid zone.
Now after 3 stops, what if the enforcers come on that 504 streetcar and check your Presto card and seen you last tap at some other TTC route or subway station that is not Broadview Stn nor the 504 car you are currently on...

They've indicated many times that you tap on a streetcar in a fare paid zone at a station. Which removes any greyness. However, most people aren't tapping ... I even get lectured by one rider recently at Main Station, for tapping (I've got a pass ... I want my off-peak ridership recorded!)

There's a problem in communication on that issue - but there isn't any grey.

 

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2 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

Here's a scenario I thought of that infringes on the grey area of the rule. Feel free to correct me of I'm wrong.

Do you tap on a streetcar route even if you board it inside a fare paid zone at a subway station?
Say your Presto 2h expired 5min ago and you reached Boardview Stn either by bus (not 505 bus) or subway. If you tap on that 504 streetcar, it'll charge you a new fare for sure but technically you are boarding that streetcar from inside a subway fare paid zone.
Now after 3 stops, what if the enforcers come on that 504 streetcar and check your Presto card and seen you last tap at some other TTC route or subway station that is not Broadview Stn nor the 504 car you are currently on...

The presto transfer isn't valid for boarding another bus/streetcar past 2 hours even in fare paid zone. There are stickers on streetcars reminding you to tap even in fare paid zone. People do find ways to extend their transfer if they are at a subway station.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

They've indicated many times that you tap on a streetcar in a fare paid zone at a station. Which removes any greyness. However, most people aren't tapping ... I even get lectured by one rider recently at Main Station, for tapping (I've got a pass ... I want my off-peak ridership recorded!)

There's a problem in communication on that issue - but there isn't any grey.

 

Until the start inspected people coming out of a station and giving them all tickets, that isn't going to change. 

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The presto transfer isn't valid for boarding another bus/streetcar past 2 hours even in fare paid zone. There are stickers on streetcars reminding you to tap even in fare paid zone. People do find ways to extend their transfer if they are at a subway station.

Until the start inspected people coming out of a station and giving them all tickets, that isn't going to change. 

You can board buses on regular bus routes since enforcers don't inspect fares on buses. The driver inspects them. And you don't need to tap on buses when you board them at the station inside the fare paid zone.

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The presto transfer isn't valid for boarding another bus/streetcar past 2 hours even in fare paid zone. There are stickers on streetcars reminding you to tap even in fare paid zone. People do find ways to extend their transfer if they are at a subway station.

Right, like taking a paper transfer at the station. 

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4 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

You can board buses on regular bus routes since enforcers don't inspect fares on buses. The driver inspects them. And you don't need to tap on buses when you board them at the station inside the fare paid zone.

 

From TTC's Presto FAQ:

Quote

Do I need to tap on a bus in the paid area if I have already tapped into a subway station?
Yes you should tap your PRESTO card every time you board a bus or streetcar and whenever you enter a subway station. As long as you are within two hours from your first tap you won’t be charged another fare.

They want you tapping on buses but doesn't explicitly say you must do.

From the TTC bylaw:

Quote

 

2.6 When requested to do so by a proper authority, a person travelling on the transit system shall immediately surrender for inspection the fare media, an identification card or photo identification card under which the person is travelling.

2.7 Unless travelling on a Proof-of-Payment route, Section 2.6 does not apply to a person who has paid a fare using cash, ticket or token.

 

From what it reads, if you paid with presto and on a bus or subway, you have to produce valid POP when requested. How they determine if you paid by cash, ticket or token is beyond me.

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13 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

From what it reads, if you paid with presto and on a bus or subway, you have to produce valid POP when requested. How they determine if you paid by cash, ticket or token is beyond me.

Watching inside the bus, for those entering the rear door, would work.

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9 hours ago, 2252 Fishbowl Refinements said:

Ok, got it. But I’m talking about when my parents load up my presto card on the computer at home.

He wasn’t replying to you

And it’s a 24 hour wait if you load online, or 4 hours if you tap on TTC or GO

——————————————————————————

Also, regarding if your transfer expires while you’re in the fare paid area, I usually take a paper transfer from the red boxes if I’m still in the system, I’m not sure if that’s allowed however. You can pretty much stay in the system the entire service day, if you know what to do, although one thing I find is that the “Not valid for re-entry into the subway system” rule is rather vague. Does it mean showing it to a collector makes it invalid? Or is it by taking a vehicle into a fare paid area of a subway station invalid? The latter seems to be rarely enforced however.

 

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12 minutes ago, Kelvin3157 said:

He wasn’t replying to you

And it’s a 24 hour wait if you load online, or 4 hours if you tap on TTC or GO

It can be 24 hours at TTC subway stations as well. It can be 4 ... but the stations often seem to only update overnight - which seems bizarre to me, given buses and streetcars seem to update whenever they hit a terminus in a station.

But if loading at home - why not just use an Android device, which can write directly to the card, and do it instantaneously.

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16 minutes ago, nfitz said:

It can be 24 hours at TTC subway stations as well. It can be 4 ... but the stations often seem to only update overnight - which seems bizarre to me, given buses and streetcars seem to update whenever they hit a terminus in a station.

But if loading at home - why not just use an Android device, which can write directly to the card, and do it instantaneously.

In any case, it should be between 4-24 hours. It’s strange that the stations are updating in 24 hour intervals... should be happening like every minute or so

 

 

Coming back to the whole PRESTO transfer fiasco:

Honestly, this whole situation is just confusing for no reason. Couldn’t they just add a PRESTO query option to the FVMs on the streetcars? Or bring back those PRESTO transfer printers but show transfer time remaining, last time tapped and where it was tapped.

 

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2 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

In any case, it should be between 4-24 hours. It’s strange that the stations are updating in 24 hour intervals... should be happening like every minute or so

 

 

Coming back to the whole PRESTO transfer fiasco:

Honestly, this whole situation is just confusing for no reason. Couldn’t they just add a PRESTO query option to the FVMs on the streetcars? Or bring back those PRESTO transfer printers but show transfer time remaining, last time tapped and where it was tapped.

 

It can't be every minute. Nothing in the world does that as it takes a lot of bandwidth to broadcast your presto data to every reader in the GTAH and Ottawa. That said, it should be every hour max or even better at 30 min.

As for how time remaining on a transfer, that doesn't require any updates from the server. The reader reads when you last paid and does the calculation to determine if your transfer is valid. All they have to do is display that on the screen. Well they'll make a big fuss with ACAT if that number isn't accessible and privacy issues...

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8 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

In any case, it should be between 4-24 hours. It’s strange that the stations are updating in 24 hour intervals... should be happening like every minute or so.

It seems to me it was more frequent before. I wonder if they've simply changed the programming at stations so that they only update overnight, to reduce outages, or something ...

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52 minutes ago, nfitz said:

It seems to me it was more frequent before. I wonder if they've simply changed the programming at stations so that they only update overnight, to reduce outages, or something ...

Or classic, reliable German Engineering by Scheidt&Bachmann.... 😛

I wonder if the new readers that are being installed on the other GTHA agencies would also immediately update the funds

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On 3/1/2020 at 3:28 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

Nfitz is right that you'll need data/wifi which they can't expect everyone to have and can't on the subway.

Checking the balance only shows the recent 3 transactions on the card, if you went hopping on and off, you can't see the initial time you paid with the card.

Lets be real now... if you get a fancy smartphone, you should have data, that IS the main point of a smartphone.  And all stations have wifi, so.... 

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18 minutes ago, BusDude said:

Lets be real now... if you get a fancy smartphone, you should have data, that IS the main point of a smartphone.  And all stations have wifi, so.... 

I was trying to do this the other day, after I tapped into Christie, by the time the wi-fi connected, I was still trying to open the Presto app when the train arrived (about 2-3 minutes). And unlike some other cities, there's no wifi in the tunnels.

I suppose I could have chosen to miss my train to check my card - but surely the main point of the subway is to go somewhere on the train. Much later at home, I noticed I had tapped in at the 1:59 mark.

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2 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I was trying to do this the other day, after I tapped into Christie, by the time the wi-fi connected, I was still trying to open the Presto app when the train arrived (about 2-3 minutes). And unlike some other cities, there's no wifi in the tunnels.

I suppose I could have chosen to miss my train to check my card - but surely the main point of the subway is to go somewhere on the train. Much later at home, I noticed I had tapped in at the 1:59 mark.

Or you could of put your card in Presto machines at the station and see your balance...... 10 seconds to do, you would of caught your train 🙂

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1 minute ago, BusDude said:

Or you could of put your card in Presto machines at the station and see your balance...... 10 seconds to do, you would of caught your train 🙂

Assuming there isn't a line up to those machines.

For smartphone, as I mention, check balance only shows the recent 3 trips. Card history in the card page is based on what is uploaded to the server. Some tap data don't get uploaded for hours. It's not an 100% reliable mention.

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3 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Assuming there isn't a line up to those machines.

For smartphone, as I mention, check balance only shows the recent 3 trips. Card history in the card page is based on what is uploaded to the server. Some tap data don't get uploaded for hours. It's not an 100% reliable mention.

there usually never a lineup at the machines...except for the last day of the month cause everyone waits for the last minute to buy there passes.  

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