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Every third train to turn back at sheppard would alleviate some backlog Northbound, and with ATC it could be timed so that the train enters the southbound platform without delay. 

It would also help turnbacks at Finch giving operators more time to turn the trains around without holding up traffic.

At times it can be 20 minutes to get to finch from sheppard during rush hour, and is usually a 5 minute ride during off peak.

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17 hours ago, Mike said:

Please keep stupid ideas like that to yourself.  Anyone suggesting something like this obviously doesn't ride the Yonge line at rush hour.

(Mike was talking about my suggestion for scheduled Sheppard turn backs all day)

 

You're right, it would be a stupid idea after 9:30pm. The people that board the train northbound at Sheppard just to have a seat southbound from Finch would be really happy with my idea. What you don't realize is after Sheppard northbound to Finch, the trains are no longer fully loaded. Some are quite light. You remove some trains from the traffic jam, service speed will improve. Would you be happier sitting for 15 minutes on a train from Sheppard to Finch, or would you be happier standing for 8?

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14 minutes ago, Turtle said:

(Mike was talking about my suggestion for scheduled Sheppard turn backs all day)

 

You're right, it would be a stupid idea after 9:30pm. The people that board the train northbound at Sheppard just to have a seat southbound from Finch would be really happy with my idea. What you don't realize is after Sheppard northbound to Finch, the trains are no longer fully loaded. Some are quite light. You remove some trains from the traffic jam, service speed will improve. Would you be happier sitting for 15 minutes on a train from Sheppard to Finch, or would you be happier standing for 8?

I apologize if I came off sounding rude, but I have been going from Finch to Queen/King for the last 20 years or so (a.m. rush southbound and anywhere between 6 and 10 pm northbound) so I feel that I have a pretty good handle on how it works from a passenger perspective.

Having less trains going southbound from Finch during morning rush hour would also mean that each train would be more crowded so getting a seat southbound would be that much harder.  Even a one train departure delay at 7:30 am causes a fully seated train to depart from Finch and the number of people arriving on the platform grows rapidly as time moves from 7:30 to 8.

What would have worked best is to have tail tracks and crossover north of Finch and have each train arrive on the northbound platform, unload, move north (leaving space on northbound platform for next train) then crossover and move to southbound platform.  What would make me happiest is neither sitting for 15 min or standing for 8min between Sheppard and Finch, but for that trip to take 3 min like it is suppose to.

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

I apologize if I came off sounding rude, but I have been going from Finch to Queen/King for the last 20 years or so (a.m. rush southbound and anywhere between 6 and 10 pm northbound) so I feel that I have a pretty good handle on how it works from a passenger perspective.

Having less trains going southbound from Finch during morning rush hour would also mean that each train would be more crowded so getting a seat southbound would be that much harder.  Even a one train departure delay at 7:30 am causes a fully seated train to depart from Finch and the number of people arriving on the platform grows rapidly as time moves from 7:30 to 8.

What would have worked best is to have tail tracks and crossover north of Finch and have each train arrive on the northbound platform, unload, move north (leaving space on northbound platform for next train) then crossover and move to southbound platform.  What would make me happiest is neither sitting for 15 min or standing for 8min between Sheppard and Finch, but for that trip to take 3 min like it is suppose to.

It takes longer for the train to move from the tail track to the platform and then board passengers than for the train to enter the platform directly.

Also having trains start at sheppard will allow more people to board the train farther down the line. Usually by the time the train gets to york mills it is standing room only.

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:49 AM, Mike said:

Having less trains going southbound from Finch during morning rush hour would also mean that each train would be more crowded so getting a seat southbound would be that much harder.  Even a one train departure delay at 7:30 am causes a fully seated train to depart from Finch and the number of people arriving on the platform grows rapidly as time moves from 7:30 to 8.

What would have worked best is to have tail tracks and crossover north of Finch and have each train arrive on the northbound platform, unload, move north (leaving space on northbound platform for next train) then crossover and move to southbound platform.  What would make me happiest is neither sitting for 15 min or standing for 8min between Sheppard and Finch, but for that trip to take 3 min like it is suppose to.

That's what you aren't understanding. My 3min and 2min are just examples. Even if trains arrived every 2:45 but departed every 3, you would still have traffic approaching the end terminal. So whatever your current service frequency is leaving Finch currently, say 3mins, you maintain. You just reduce the rate of arrivals. As long as the rate of arrivals is enough to keep the current departure frequency, you don't reduce service leaving Finch. On top of it, you actually improve service for people boarding southbound at stations down the line, as well as improving service for those travelling to the end terminals.  If you aren't using a centre track for a turnback, it takes no time at all. No need to take the train out of service, you just make announcements to inform passengers, and reverse direction. Takes longer for people to exit/enter than it does to reverse the operating direction of a train. Not like the old days when you had to build up enough air pressure to release the brakes.

Your idea about utilizing the tail tracks is dumb. They wanted to do that for line 4 at Sheppard-Yonge at one point. What happens when a person refuses to exit the train? You can't take passengers into pockets or tail tracks. You would also be wasting a lot of time having to take every train out of service, and would probably need extra staff on the platform to help, preferably supervisory and security. Like Shaun said, it takes lots of time to move a train to/from the tails, and if one of the tails is already occupied during this, your station speed drops to less than half because of blind trips for safety reasons. What happens if the switches for the centre tail track malfunctions?

 

The trip from Sheppard to Finch hasn't taken 3 minutes since North York Centre opened.

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:49 AM, Mike said:

What would have worked best is to have tail tracks and crossover north of Finch and have each train arrive on the northbound platform, unload, move north (leaving space on northbound platform for next train) then crossover and move to southbound platform. 

I’m pretty sure on some parts of the Underground in London that’s normal practice.

 

another Idea could be reopen Lower Bay and put a crossover or tail track in if possible or have a train go to Broadview and use the tail track there. Trains from Vaughan could use platform 3 at Davisville

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I don't think Davisville build up can handle trains at main line speed, and that would only add one train to the line. 

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5 hours ago, Turtle said:

Your idea about utilizing the tail tracks is dumb. They wanted to do that for line 4 at Sheppard-Yonge at one point. What happens when a person refuses to exit the train? You can't take passengers into pockets or tail tracks. You would also be wasting a lot of time having to take every train out of service, and would probably need extra staff on the platform to help, preferably supervisory and security. Like Shaun said, it takes lots of time to move a train to/from the tails, and if one of the tails is already occupied during this, your station speed drops to less than half because of blind trips for safety reasons. What happens if the switches for the centre tail track malfunctions?

IIRC, it was tested a few years back at Finch, when the backups started to become a daily problem. It didn't go well.

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15 minutes ago, Archer said:

IIRC, it was tested a few years back at Finch, when the backups started to become a daily problem. It didn't go well.

But that is also because the tail tracks, as they are currently configured, aren't well constructed and configured for that idea.

 

One of the ideas that had been thrown about - and in fact, I think made it to the EA process - was to extend the third track section north of Finch when the line gets extended to Highway 7. This would allow for additional signals to be installed, and would allow trains to be turned back in a more efficient manner from Finch if they wanted to run only every second train further north.


Dan

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Wasn't the plan the same for Sheppard west station? That's why they build the connecting track directly to the yard but it was causing trains to be backed up. So now they leave the trains in service to Vaughan instead. 

So how can we avoid the same situation?

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On 1/10/2020 at 9:22 PM, Shaun said:

Wasn't the plan the same for Sheppard west station? That's why they build the connecting track directly to the yard but it was causing trains to be backed up. So now they leave the trains in service to Vaughan instead. 

So how can we avoid the same situation?

 

The original plan - back when Downsview was originally constructed in the mid-1990s - was to build a pocket track to the north of the station to allow them to turn back trains there. But when the time came to build the TYSSE, it was found that they were going to have to demolish the last 50 or 75 feet of the original structure built with the station. This also shortens the amount of space for the pocket track to the point where it is no longer feasible to build it there.

 

(Which is fine, as the TTC wants to build a new one north of Wilson anyways.)

 

The yard access from Sheppard West to the north build-up has nothing to do with any of this.

 

Dan

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Hi all, does any one have a complete route listing for GO Bus and TTC Bus? Doing a document and hoping someone could help! 

-Thanks SDGBusFan

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On 1/10/2020 at 10:54 AM, Turtle said:

The trip from Sheppard to Finch hasn't taken 3 minutes since North York Centre opened.

I timed it this morning, southbound trip from Finch (doors close) to Sheppard (doors open) - it took 3.5 minutes. 

On 1/10/2020 at 10:54 AM, Turtle said:

 

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9 minutes ago, Mike said:

I timed it this morning, southbound trip from Finch (doors close) to Sheppard (doors open) - it took 3.5 minutes. 

I bet it's faster late at night.

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From the cptdb wiki on the 1500s, I counted 61 active units. Are these all being retired this year or will they retain 50 of them since there is a comment about 50 being repainted / rebuilt?

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1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

From the cptdb wiki on the 1500s, I counted 61 active units. Are these all being retired this year or will they retain 50 of them since there is a comment about 50 being repainted / rebuilt?

I believe they will retire this batch of buses this year because they only received body repair and a repaint having retained their rear doors in the refurbishment. Also, some of the repainted units have already been scrapped from Malvern along with units that were given vision from the 1500s

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3 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

From the cptdb wiki on the 1500s, I counted 61 active units. Are these all being retired this year or will they retain 50 of them since there is a comment about 50 being repainted / rebuilt?

The 2019 fleet plan calls for 280 of them to be retired between 2018/19. That leaves around 40ish (320 total between 1500s+1700s). Not all Novas have entered service so further NGs will retire. They didn't buy more buses to replace all 1500s so unless they decided to run less buses than planned a year ago, some should survive this year.

5 minutes ago, Tramguy said:

Transee at 5 PM today, Monday showed a bus on Queen numbered 4600.  Am I missing something here?

You mean that's not the new streetcar? Nextbus data shows it does not have VISION.

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3 hours ago, Tramguy said:

Transee at 5 PM today, Monday showed a bus on Queen numbered 4600.  Am I missing something here?

By default, Transee assumes that TTC vehicles are buses ... I guess no one has told it that the brand-new 4600 range are streetcars.

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Do the aux heaters for the hybrid LFS's blow tons of black smoke on startup? I have noticed this on more than one occasion, where the Hybrid LFS was spewing black smoke while parked, but it's not from the engine exhaust, it comes from down below on the drivers side. 

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5 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The 2019 fleet plan calls for 280 of them to be retired between 2018/19. That leaves around 40ish (320 total between 1500s+1700s). Not all Novas have entered service so further NGs will retire. They didn't buy more buses to replace all 1500s so unless they decided to run less buses than planned a year ago, some should survive this year.

Remember Queensway has a lot of buses right now as the 79xx receive VISION. Once all of the 79xx have VISION that should push at the most 40-50 units out of Queensway and those units could go to Wilson and then 25 of Wilson's NG HEVs could go to Malvern and 25 to Mount Dennis and that should retire the remaining 1500/1600s. I don't think that they are going to survive past spring. That's just my observation.

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14 hours ago, Shaun said:

Do the aux heaters for the hybrid LFS's blow tons of black smoke on startup? I have noticed this on more than one occasion, where the Hybrid LFS was spewing black smoke while parked, but it's not from the engine exhaust, it comes from down below on the drivers side. 

They do sometimes. 

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20 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

I believe they will retire this batch of buses this year because they only received body repair and a repaint having retained their rear doors in the refurbishment. Also, some of the repainted units have already been scrapped from Malvern along with units that were given vision from the 1500s

When Line 1 got extended and TTC pulled back all of its north of Steeles routes in the west end, didn't they free up some buses or was that a minimal amount? Surplus buses there.

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