Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Downsview 108]

Anyone who thinks Toronto is a world class city is obviously not equipped with either a passport or Internet access.

[G.A]

Curious does will the TTC put anything in the Labour Day parade this year?

[leylandvictory2]

1 hour ago, TTC 9701 said:

Curious does will the TTC put anything in the Labour Day parade this year?

not sure.  Last year a PCC streetcar was used along with w100 iirc.

[Wayside Observer]

17 hours ago, TTC 9701 said:

Curious does will the TTC put anything in the Labour Day parade this year?

Plain clothes special constables to identify and photograph the union troublemakers marching in the parade for retribution later.

[Someguy3071]

4 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Plain clothes special constables to identify and photograph the union troublemakers marching in the parade for retribution later.

I guess those special constables can actually be useful for something

[Ed T.]

There was a plain old building on the NE side of Weston Road, across from the St. Phillips Dr. intersection. Did that have something to do with the Weston or possibly Woodbridge streetcars?

In any case, it's been knocked down.

[leylandvictory2]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:32 AM, Wayside Observer said:

Plain clothes special constables to identify and photograph the union troublemakers marching in the parade for retribution later.

I go there for the jackets and hats lol

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

There was a plain old building on the NE side of Weston Road, across from the St. Phillips Dr. intersection. Did that have something to do with the Weston or possibly Woodbridge streetcars?

In any case, it's been knocked down.

It’s most recent use was as a taxidermist’s shop, but anything more than 18 years ago I don’t know.

[CLRV4094]

On 8/26/2019 at 8:46 PM, TTC 9701 said:

Curious does will the TTC put anything in the Labour Day parade this year?

I did hear ALRV 4207 will be going into the parade prior to being used for the final runs.

[Orion VI]

2 minutes ago, CLRV4094 said:

I did hear ALRV 4207 will be going into the parade prior to being used for the final runs.

yeah, then go to wollesley loop and back to Russell for a final run on the 501. Read here for the TTC: Car 4204 will depart the Russell Carhouse at 2 p.m. running east to Wolseley Loop and back. A second car, 4207, will participate in the Labour Day Parade along Queen St. and then depart Wolseley Loop at approximately the same time, though road closures and traffic associated with the CNE could impact the exact departure time. The two cars will make return trips between Russell and Wolseley until 5 p.m. The very last run will depart Wolseley at approximately 4:15 p.m., arriving at Russell Carhouse at 5 p.m.

[raptorjays]

On 8/24/2019 at 12:13 PM, nfitz said:

It's not just King Street downtown that's impacted though. In recent years, it turns the 504 service into an erratic nightmare. So huge service problems and gaps on Roncesvalles and Broadview as well - not to mention points in between!

TTC used to announce those closures like month or two before.. and they did just like a week in advance this year.

I don’t know if the TTC discussed with TIFF officials until last minute and couldn’t find any solutions. 

[T3G]

Here's a lovely, super cluttered map of the TIFF closures:

Anyone know if there is a rhyme or reason to this madness? What is preventing them from running the 504A/504B as regular through services, diverting via Spadina - Queen - Church and York - Queen - Spadina? Why do there need to be two 504As, and what is going to be serving the Dufferin Gate loop during the diversions?

[CLRV4002]

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

Here's a lovely, super cluttered map of the TIFF closures:

Can’t wait to see what happens if there’s a rush hour accident on Queen near Bay or Yonge. 

 

[TTC Guy]

22 minutes ago, CLRV4002 said:

Can’t wait to see what happens if there’s a rush hour accident on Queen near Bay or Yonge. 

 

Dundas?

[CLRV4002]

5 minutes ago, TTC Guy said:

Dundas?

Is the water main construction done? Otherwise I guess that means the 501,504 and 508 go up to College/Carlton ? 

[smallspy]

3 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Here's a lovely, super cluttered map of the TIFF closures:

Anyone know if there is a rhyme or reason to this madness? What is preventing them from running the 504A/504B as regular through services, diverting via Spadina - Queen - Church and York - Queen - Spadina? Why do there need to be two 504As, and what is going to be serving the Dufferin Gate loop during the diversions?

In years past, all of the service trying to pass through the intersection of Queen and Spadina has caused numerous delays on all of the Queen, King and Spadina routes. It looks like they're trying to at least mitigate this to a small degree by separating the eastern and western King services - delays at Queen and Spadina shouldn't affect the service on King to the east in theory.

 

Of course, the service on Queen and Spadina, on the other hand....

Dan

[raptorjays]

5 hours ago, smallspy said:

In years past, all of the service trying to pass through the intersection of Queen and Spadina has caused numerous delays on all of the Queen, King and Spadina routes. It looks like they're trying to at least mitigate this to a small degree by separating the eastern and western King services - delays at Queen and Spadina shouldn't affect the service on King to the east in theory.

 

Of course, the service on Queen and Spadina, on the other hand....

Dan

TTC and the city should have negotiated about the closure and need to discuss if there are any alternatives rather than shutting traffic flows including streetcars

[smallspy]

14 hours ago, raptorjays said:

TTC and the city should have negotiated about the closure and need to discuss if there are any alternatives rather than shutting traffic flows including streetcars

I don't disagree, and I'm sure that the 70-some-odd-thousand people who take the King car on a daily basis wouldn't either.

 

But you also need to remember that TIFF injects tens of millions of dollars back into the City through payments for things like street closures, permits, taxes, etc. There does need to be a balance.

 

Dan

[raptorjays]

8 hours ago, smallspy said:

I don't disagree, and I'm sure that the 70-some-odd-thousand people who take the King car on a daily basis wouldn't either.

 

But you also need to remember that TIFF injects tens of millions of dollars back into the City through payments for things like street closures, permits, taxes, etc. There does need to be a balance.

 

Dan

So basically the TTC is treating riders as dogs and pigs

[63 Ossington]

I have a question about ATC; how is train spacing maintained when running in manual/emergency mode?

[Someguy3071]

7 hours ago, raptorjays said:

So basically the TTC is treating riders as dogs and pigs

I don't think that's fair to say. TTC has no control over the closure and just has to deal it.   

[IRT_BMT_IND]

On 9/5/2019 at 1:21 PM, smallspy said:

In years past, all of the service trying to pass through the intersection of Queen and Spadina has caused numerous delays on all of the Queen, King and Spadina routes. It looks like they're trying to at least mitigate this to a small degree by separating the eastern and western King services - delays at Queen and Spadina shouldn't affect the service on King to the east in theory.

 

Of course, the service on Queen and Spadina, on the other hand....

Dan

The delays on Spadina could be mitigated if the TTC wasn't either unwilling or unable to get the switch controls and white bar signals working properly at the Spadina/Queen and Spadina/King intersections.

I've seen multiple near miss accidents at Spadina and Queen during other diversions from streetcars attempting to turn across traffic from the inside lane, to the point where I'm surprised operators haven't made formal work refusals.

[dowlingm]

5 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

I don't think that's fair to say. TTC has no control over the closure and just has to deal it.   

Quite. The blame for this is firmly at the Mayor’s door. His sister is Chair of the organization which is permitted a massively disruptive blockage to Toronto’s streetscape, and indications are he will run next time so there is no end in sight.

https://www.tiff.net/about

He successfully deflected mutiny on council in 2017 by saying essentially “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today”

http://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/news/tiff-king-st-closure-unlikely-next-year-1.3261668

it might have been a better idea for TTC to hold over reintroducing the 508 - a pretty poor early impression, surely?

[smallspy]

15 hours ago, 63 Ossington said:

I have a question about ATC; how is train spacing maintained when running in manual/emergency mode?

The answer is "it depends" because you're asking about two completely different operating modes.

 

The trains can and are allowed to be operated in manual mode whilst on the ATC/ATO-equipped section of the line. In that case, the signal system treats the train like every single other train on the line, with full detection, and enforcing of speeds and separations. There are a couple of different ways that the trains know where they are on the line (and where the signals know where the trains are) - beacons located between the rails, axle counters and wheel revolution counters. Ultimately the train knows where it is within a foot or two, and communicates this back to the signalling system. The only difference is that the operator at the front still uses the control handle to operate the train, rather than pressing the doors close button and monitoring everything as the train drives itself.

 

In the event of an emergency or where the system looses detection of a train, there is a fallback system that uses strategically placed axle counters to break up the line into large chunks - not unlike the old signal system, but with the blocks being thousands of feet long rather than 500. In this case, the system would detect that something is in the block, and while it wouldn't know exactly where it is within that space it would prevent any other trains from entering it until it was deemed clear at the far end.

 

One further thing to consider - what people call "the new signal system" or "CBTC" is actually a combination of several discrete systems that all communicate with each other. The old wayside signals have been replaced with a new signal system that uses the catch-all term of "Automatic Train Control". This new signal system also includes the new cab signalling system which is integrated into the equipment. (And if you want to be really technical about it, the old system was also considered a form of "Automatic Train Control" as it provided automatic separation of trains and dispatching. But the guys who do this for a living don't like using the acronym on the old systems that are being replaced.) The ability for the trains to drive themselves is provided by a system broadly known as "Automatic Train Operation". It takes cues from the signal system and operates the train based on a set of parameters that have been preconfigured into it as well as what the signal system tells it that it is capable of doing.

 

11 hours ago, IRT_BMT_IND said:

The delays on Spadina could be mitigated if the TTC wasn't either unwilling or unable to get the switch controls and white bar signals working properly at the Spadina/Queen and Spadina/King intersections.

I've seen multiple near miss accidents at Spadina and Queen during other diversions from streetcars attempting to turn across traffic from the inside lane, to the point where I'm surprised operators haven't made formal work refusals.

They had worked in the past. Have they stopped working?

 

Dan

[Shaun]

I find that with ATO on line 1, either the trains run slower overall on the line, unless it just feels that way because the distance between the trains is being adjusted to allow the trains to be properly spaced.