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Orion V

Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

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15 minutes ago, Orion V said:

It's too bad the TTC subways can't be run at HCRR. I really wanted to ride those again.

There's a whole bunch of stuff there I would have liked to ride on,  but were never put into operation, were sold to another owner or were taken out of service before I went.

While we are on the topic of HCRR, would anyone happen to know what became of Witt Trailer 2395 and the GM old look bus they had there? I have never actually seen them there. I know 9339 was sent to the U.S and 9348 was used as parts and 8058 is being restored by the TTC. At least they still have the Hamilton Trolleys, but those are in terrible shape.

2 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

W-30 usually comes out when the weather doesn't permit them to run 327.

Thanks. That would explain why I have only seen it on Halloween. Hopefully they restore W-31 soon.

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11 hours ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

There's a whole bunch of stuff there I would have liked to ride on,  but were never put into operation, were sold to another owner or were taken out of service before I went.

Unfortunately, that's the problem with an operating museum that doesn't have enough volunteers to do the work.


Thankfully, that is something that you can help fix.

 

11 hours ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

While we are on the topic of HCRR, would anyone happen to know what became of Witt Trailer 2395 and the GM old look bus they had there?

I'm not sure about the Old Look - I'd been led to believe that it wasn't theirs to begin with - but the trailer is still on the property. In fact, I don't think it's moved in about 20 years.

 

11 hours ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

I have never actually seen them there. I know 9339 was sent to the U.S and 9348 was used as parts and 8058 is being restored by the TTC. At least they still have the Hamilton Trolleys, but those are in terrible shape.

They have been trying to find a new home for the trolleys for the better part of 3 years now. I suspect that they will salvage what they can from them and scrap them.

 

Dan

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On May 22, 2019 at 3:48 PM, PCC Guy said:

Where are you seeing that the only PCC they list as operational is 4000? If I go to their site I see all the usual suspects still listed.

https://hcry.org/portfolio_category/streetcar/

I was told that 4000 is way too old, fragile, and lacks commonality with the post-war cars for it to run on any kind of regular basis, so it would be very strange if that was the only PCC they kept running.

4000 came up in conversation.  I knew that 1101 is a 1937 PCC but I didn't realize this until an older gentleman who I was talking with explained that 1937 was the last year for narrow anticlimbers on the front of the car and that in 1938, the body designed to include full width anticlimbers and he specifically cited 4000 as a prime example of that year over year design change.  So even by the time the first TTC order was being built, the basic design was starting to evolve off the original from 1936.  

I don't have any good picture so I went looking for some head on photos from the web:

TTC 4000, full width anticlimber built in 1938

DC Transit 1101, narrow anticlimber built in 1937

And sure enough, the difference is clearly visible when you look at the two.  You learn something new every day.

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Hey all,

 

I went to the Eglinton Crosstown doors open today, and decided to do some exploring to take some photos of MtD. I was lucky enough to see this: IMG_1139.thumb.JPG.737b8b9758b8bd2c8d9c208f97c914ea.JPGIMG_1140.thumb.JPG.864f768456389012011dcfdc4366bdf6.JPG

Anybody know what it was doing? It turned into MtD. 

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1 hour ago, Orion VI said:

Hey all,

 

I went to the Eglinton Crosstown doors open today, and decided to do some exploring to take some photos of MtD. I was lucky enough to see this: IMG_1139.thumb.JPG.737b8b9758b8bd2c8d9c208f97c914ea.JPGIMG_1140.thumb.JPG.864f768456389012011dcfdc4366bdf6.JPG

Anybody know what it was doing? It turned into MtD. 

It’s privately owned. Probably decided to carpool to the doors open even with their buddies, and blow the cobwebs out. Win-win.

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Ugh, this is a bit of a rant...

What the frig is wrong with some of these Nova's thermostats? Warm days are here and the bloody heat pumps in them like its middle of January? The darn baseboard heaters are so hot that they literally burn you.

Seems to be the older Birchmount Nova's that are the most offending ones. Someone once mentioned that there was some sort of "fix" being implemented for that, but I wonder if it ever got applied to all the buses.

 

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I find that a lot of the arrow division buses have their windows locked shut. Makes it harder to get air in the bus.

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

I find that a lot of the arrow division buses have their windows locked shut. Makes it harder to get air in the bus.

I dont know if they're locked, but sometimes it's just really hard to push the handle to open, on a lot of Nova's. It's a real bad design, and also because the rear-most seats don't have a window that opens.

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

I dont know if they're locked, but sometimes it's just really hard to push the handle to open, on a lot of Nova's. It's a real bad design, and also because the rear-most seats don't have a window that opens.

The windows on the 3100s and up have locking mechanisms. During the summer they'll be locked when the AC is on

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6 hours ago, TechnicaProductions said:

The windows on the 3100s and up have locking mechanisms. During the summer they'll be locked when the AC is on

Jeez. Maybe the 3100's have better AC than the older models. Cuz those stink. and like I said there's some bloody issue with the engine coolant circulation system cuz it'll be 20 degrees outside and it will be pumping heat into the baseboard heaters. Not to mention poor insulation the rear seat is like a furnace itself.

I asked one operator and he said he can't adjust anything. Maybe I gotta start jotting the numbers and posting twitter complaints to @TTChelps

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Jeez. Maybe the 3100's have better AC than the older models. Cuz those stink. and like I said there's some bloody issue with the engine coolant circulation system cuz it'll be 20 degrees outside and it will be pumping heat into the baseboard heaters. Not to mention poor insulation the rear seat is like a furnace itself.

I asked one operator and he said he can't adjust anything. Maybe I gotta start jotting the numbers and posting twitter complaints to @TTChelps

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

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48 minutes ago, meltingtomato said:

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

If the AC works fine, I am all for locking the windows. But in the Eglinton & Birchmount Novas, its bad. Will see as the summer goes on.

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11 hours ago, meltingtomato said:

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

I also have to add that the vents on the 3400s (hybrids) seem to be more spaced out due to (correct me if I'm wrong) the AC being electrically rather than hydraulically operated. Or is this so for some of the diesel buses as well? I haven't ridden the 3100s enough to make out an audible distinction, and the raised roofline on the 3400s is really concealing the parts of the vehicle that interest transit fans like us.

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On what planet is air conditioning hydraulically operated?

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2 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

That's true.  Nova has an automatic climate control.  The only thing the driver can do is either enable the climate control or disable the function.

They are like that on the TR trains too. One can find the vents blasting heat in 30 degrees weather when the train. The trains may have gotten too cold and heat is used to compensate.

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The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

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1 hour ago, lip said:

The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

Well for Quebec systems it doesn't matter how bad the LFS is as their government seems to fund only NovaBus kind of like Ontario did with Orion in the 90s. They have no other choice.

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1 hour ago, lip said:

The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

The Novas also produce a lot of heat through the back seats. Sit on one in the summer and you'll know. It doesn't matter what HVAC unit is running, the engine is just going to heat the rear

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^Trust me, im well aware the hot box bench that is the rear seats of the NovaBus. Durigng the winter they act as tush insulators, during the summer they're like a sauna.

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4 hours ago, Orion V said:

Well for Quebec systems it doesn't matter how bad the LFS is as their government seems to fund only NovaBus kind of like Ontario did with Orion in the 90s. They have no other choice.

When I was riding in Montreal the other day, someone told me their buses aren't air conditioned - which surprised me, but I only ever seem to ride in the winter or spring in recent years. If true, perhaps they just don't have a lot of clients that request air conditioning.

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11 hours ago, nfitz said:

When I was riding in Montreal the other day, someone told me their buses aren't air conditioned - which surprised me, but I only ever seem to ride in the winter or spring in recent years. If true, perhaps they just don't have a lot of clients that request air conditioning.

Montreal only started adding AC to their buses in 2017. Their hybrid and electric LFSes have it

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1 hour ago, TechnicaProductions said:

Montreal only started adding AC to their buses in 2017. Their hybrid and electric LFSes have it

That might explain why many haven't seen it - looking at https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Société_de_transport_de_Montréal#Bus_fleet_roster it appears most of their recent annual orders have been relatively small, only about 100 a year in recent years compared to hundreds a year in earlier years. Gosh, do they really keep their buses 17 years?

It looks like they older buses are fitted with windows that open properly - not the silly barely opening high windows on the TTC AC buses. AC is great when it works - but so many summer days the old streetcars were preferable to a TTC bus which didn't have working AC!

Seems to me that Nova has to spend more time on hot buses, to figure out how to improve it. I have to give Bombardier credit - their air on the new streetcars seems to work well.

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