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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


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38 minutes ago, 7969 said:

Anyone know where the island bus is held/refuled?  Does it stay on the island at all times?

There are diesel fueling facilities on the island for municipal vehicles and equipment. It’s stored  securely inside a shop at the water treatment plant, alongside the tourist trams and various pickup trucks, refuse vehicles and tractors.

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24 minutes ago, MK78 said:

I always wondered if they could retrofit some sort of dispenser in front of the wheels of the bus, that would spray rock salt or some other traction aid. Sort of like streetcars have the sand. 

Never considered that, but there is this:

may be overkill on an urban bus, and probably isn’t room for a set on a low floor.

Actually, at least one guy has fabbed a sander up:

https://www.cartpartsrus.com/Elston/Sanders.htm

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I was thinking spraying a substance out of the front bumper. Hoses could run through the floor and the space above one of the front wheel-wells could be used for storing the substance. Probably wouldn't work though.

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On 2/17/2019 at 2:44 PM, 7575 said:

I was thinking spraying a substance out of the front bumper. Hoses could run through the floor and the space above one of the front wheel-wells could be used for storing the substance. Probably wouldn't work though.

Front wheels wouldn't really be effective, when the bus is stuck it needs traction aid sprayed directly in front of the rear wheels. A driver can rock the bus back and forth a bit and then it can bite in.

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8 hours ago, MK78 said:

Front wheels wouldn't really be effective, when the bus is stuck it needs traction aid sprayed directly in front of the rear wheels. A driver can rock the bus back and forth a bit and then it can bite in.

The rear wheels are just pushing a useless sled unless you can get the front wheels to bite. Roads are typically crowned to the curbs for water drainage. The front wheels need some traction to overcome that.

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2 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

Anyone know when 511 will be back to streetcar operation in its entirety?

Thought only 502, 503, 505 are substituted due to low streetcar availability and the Bathurst Stn construction is over.

I'd think it would be substituted on and off until 2026, when TTC currently anticipates the streetcar shortage to end.

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22 hours ago, 7575 said:

Does anyone know what the Events Support buses were doing today? I saw 4 buses pulling into Birchmount at around 1pm. Also, can anyone provide an update on 8924 and 9003?

Same with #7936. That bus needs a new tracker if the CAD/AVL system kicks in.

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

I'd think it would be substituted on and off until 2026, when TTC currently anticipates the streetcar shortage to end.

There could be enough Flexity or CLRV cars can be put to use on the 511 BATHURST if that is the case.

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3 minutes ago, BYD said:

There could be enough Flexity or CLRV cars can be put to use on the 511 BATHURST if that is the case.

There's enough for most routes. But with the current situation, and the CRLVs all being retired soon, and TTC not taking up the 60-car option after all, there won't be enough cars for all routes for many years. 502/503 and 511 are the most frequent targets for bustitution, and I expect that will continue on and off for many years to come.

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9 minutes ago, BYD said:

Same with #7936. That bus needs a new tracker if the CAD/AVL system kicks in.

The bus has been removed from the active fleet allocation roster. What further update could you expect?

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6 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's enough for most routes. But with the current situation, and the CRLVs all being retired soon, and TTC not taking up the 60-car option after all, there won't be enough cars for all routes for many years. 502/503 and 511 are the most frequent targets for bustitution, and I expect that will continue on and off for many years to come.

So the TTC didn’t order enough Flexities?

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28 minutes ago, 7969 said:

So the TTC didn’t order enough Flexities?

No, basically what the TTC ordered was equivalent capacity to the existing CLRV and ALRV streetcars, in other words, enough streetcar fleet capacity for about 1991 or so.  The population in the part of the city served by the streetcar lines has grown incredibly in the intervening time but streetcar service, limited by fleet size, hasn't and won't unless the city smartens up and exercises that option really soon.

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7 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's enough for most routes. But with the current situation, and the CRLVs all being retired soon, and TTC not taking up the 60-car option after all, there won't be enough cars for all routes for many years. 502/503 and 511 are the most frequent targets for bustitution, and I expect that will continue on and off for many years to come.

The TTC could easily just get rid of 502/503 as streetcar routes. Saves them from maintaining track & overhead on Kingston rd. Turn those routes into a full bus service along Kingston from queen to morningside and have the odd flexity go on king from queen/Kingston loop.

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7 minutes ago, MK78 said:

The TTC could easily just get rid of 502/503 as streetcar routes. Saves them from maintaining track & overhead on Kingston rd. Turn those routes into a full bus service along Kingston from queen to morningside and have the odd flexity go on king from queen/Kingston loop.

Or Queen/Kennedy Stn?

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But we have to consider that the size and capacity of the Flexities are bigger than both CLRV and ALRV.

Listen to our old friend Andy: (at about 1 minute in, but he doesn't say much)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3n80hTQw

Wikipedia's info:

Fleet numbers 4400–4603
Capacity 70 (seats), 181 (standing), 251 total[

Vs.

Fleet numbers L1: 4000–4005
L2: 4010–4199
Capacity 42–46 seated*, 74 at peak with standees[1]
*during rebuilds 4 seats removed

 

Fleet numbers 4900 (prototype)
4200–4251 (standard)[1]
Capacity 61 seated, 108 at peak with standees[1]
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34 minutes ago, 7575 said:

Or Queen/Kennedy Stn?

No, I'd have it run from the Queen/Kingston loop to Kingston & Lawrence or Morningside, loop around and come back down.

It would finally provide all day continuous service along the vast majority of Kingston road from Queen to Morningside.

I don't know how many Flexity's would have been allocated to 502/503, but their cost would probably easily offset the cost of purchasing buses to run this route.

They could re-organize a few routes that run along there as well, such as the weekend 22A Coxwell, which runs to Bingham loop. 22 Coxwell could easily just be the same route all the time looping around eastern and back to Coxwell station, and of course they could get rid of 12D.

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41 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

But we have to consider that the size and capacity of the Flexities are bigger than both CLRV and ALRV.

Listen to our old friend Andy: (at about 1 minute in, but he doesn't say much)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3n80hTQw

Wikipedia's info:

Fleet numbers 4400–4603
Capacity 70 (seats), 181 (standing), 251 total[

Vs.

Fleet numbers L1: 4000–4005
L2: 4010–4199
Capacity 42–46 seated*, 74 at peak with standees[1]
*during rebuilds 4 seats removed

 

Fleet numbers 4900 (prototype)
4200–4251 (standard)[1]
Capacity 61 seated, 108 at peak with standees[1]

You forget that ridership has grown on the streetcar routes since even 2009 when the order was placed.

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4 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

You forget that ridership has grown on the streetcar routes since even 2009 when the order was placed.

It's earlier than that - If I remember correctly the fleet size was selected back in 2006, using data up to 2005. If you look back at the TTC ridership numbers (based on place of first payment) from 1986 to 2018 at https://www.toronto.ca/ext/open_data/catalog/data_set_files/1985-2018_Analysis_of_ridership.xlsx you can see that in then the ridership for streetcars had been about 42 to 43 million a year. But then it started to grow, peaking at 65 million in 2014 before the streetcar shortage hit.

That's about 55% growth since the streetcar fleet was sized. There might be more capacity in the bigger cars, but it's still not enough.

If you treat capacity simply as the length of each car, the 204 Flexities represent a 48% capacity increase over the 196 CLRVs and 52 ALRVs. But if demand has grown 55% since the early 2000s we are worse off than we were before!

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So why is the streetcar shortage expected to end in 2026? What event is to take place that year that is supposed to relieve the commuting hell of bustitutions?

I don't know why they wouldn't keep some of the best CLRVs in service indefinitely, and pepper them in among the cars on all routes. Surely running into an inaccessible car now and then would be easier to deal with than having every car on a route be inaccessible, a la the 506.

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48 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

So why is the streetcar shortage expected to end in 2026? What event is to take place that year that is supposed to relieve the commuting hell of bustitutions?

2026 is planned to be when the bulk of a new - and yet untendered - batch of 100 streetcars will be in service.

 

Whether they actually get the money to do this is unknown.

 

Dan

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