Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[DAT_28]

5 minutes ago, Tunnelrat said:

Maybe maybe these cars went to be refurbished? Or they are permanently  out of service for corrosion. It would take a lot of work to change the numbers of the cars because The numbers are used by the ATO system and at transit control to locate and send commands to the train. 

No, they’re already refurbished and the original 3009 is back with 3008 anyway.

[smallspy]

2 hours ago, Tunnelrat said:

It would take a lot of work to change the numbers of the cars because The numbers are used by the ATO system and at transit control to locate and send commands to the train. 

Indeed, SelTrac does not lend itself to changes - witness all of the issues that Vancouver had once they started to approach 128 cars in its fleet oh so long ago, or the constant headaches San Fransisco had with the Muni Tunnel. Or, frankly, the SRT on a daily basis.

 

What is more likely is that the interior panel from 3007 was used in 3009 while it was out of service.

 

Dan

[Kobayashi]

Although I read a Facebook group posts, can there be a possibility of having a bus service on Dundas east of Broadview Stn. running to Bingham Loop and/or Victoria Park Stn.? Though its close to the 501 and 506, that route can be useful whenever Line 2 is closed for work.

Also in my head is the 33 FOREST HILL. If the route is extended east to Eglinton Stn. and south of St. Clair Ave. W. to Spadina Stn. via Spadina/Austin Ter/Walmer/Davenport/Spadina through Casa Loma, would the route become the 33 SPADINA? Everyone may ride the Spadina Bus again. The 33 mostly uses Spadina Rd. 

[Doppelkupplung]

Apologies if this is a beginner question, couldn't find an answer, even on the wiki. Why are the TRs and T1s so exclusive to their respective lines? 

[littlewill1166]

1 minute ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Apologies if this is a beginner question, couldn't find an answer, even on the wiki. Why are the TRs and T1s so exclusive to their respective lines? 

In the same way some airlines only operate one type of aircraft (less parts, less training, etc.) Also, automatic train control is used on line 1 and the TTC decided not to retrofit the T1s with it.

[lip]

3 hours ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Apologies if this is a beginner question, couldn't find an answer, even on the wiki. Why are the TRs and T1s so exclusive to their respective lines? 

A couple reasons actually:

1) The TTC wanted and needed to increase capacity of the Y-U-S line which was bursting (and still is bursting) at its seams and the TR was designed with a greater passenger capacity compared to the T1s due to the open gangways and lack of a drivers booth in each car.

2) Carhouses required pretty extensive modifications to allow for the TRs to operate, and since the TTC intended for the TRs to be used on the Y-U-S line, Wilson and Davisville were naturally the 2 carhouses that would receive the modifications. Both Wilson and Davisville serviced the Y-U-S line exclusively at the time, so that was why TR operations were based from there. Let's remember that Wilson received the substantial modifications first, followed by Davisville.

3) Greenwood hasn't received modifications to allow to the TRs to be dispatched from there yet, and that's where all trains from the B-D line come from. At the same time T1s needed to be cleared out from Wilson and Davisville to accommodate all of the incoming TRs, so as a result the T1s were moved to Greenwood.

As we've gone along in the years, the TTC has started to go through the process of overhauling the signaling system to allow for ATC (which the TRs are only compatible of running) and in the end, that just solidified the separate fleets for each line since the T1s arent capable of running in ATC. However, that's not to say that TRs cant operate on the B-D line, and the T1s cant operate on the Y-U-S line. They still can, the TRs have been dispatched to the B-D line in emergencies, while T1s (in exceptional cases) have been dispatched on the Y-U-S line. However, operating the T1s on the Y-U-S line is a trickier endeavor as that involves turning off ATC and running trains in manual mode.

[Xtrazsteve]

Modification for a permanent 6 car train would be too extensive at Greenwood they plan to just build a new yard near Kipling. I don't think a whole train could fit in some of those shops.

[dowlingm]

On 10/4/2018 at 12:06 PM, BYD said:

Although I read a Facebook group posts, can there be a possibility of having a bus service on Dundas east of Broadview Stn. running to Bingham Loop and/or Victoria Park Stn.? Though its close to the 501 and 506, that route can be useful whenever Line 2 is closed for work.

A service on Dundas miiiiiight work as for as Jones to capture the new developments around Carlaw as well as providing some options if/when DRL construction happens but east of Jones is almost all low rise. The other question is where such a route goes west of Broadview - overlap 505 or something else.

[81-717]

Does anyone know what's the purpose of the additional rails found between the tracks in some parts of the subway network? I know there's the guard rail, but what about the others (especially the ones right in the middle between the tracks, like west of VP here).

[H4 5600]

1 hour ago, D. Jacenkovic said:

Does anyone know what's the purpose of the additional rails found between the tracks in some parts of the subway network? I know there's the guard rail, but what about the others (especially the ones right in the middle between the tracks, like west of VP here).

i asked an operator about that once, he said they were either waiting to be installed to replace one of the currently installed rails, or they had just been taken out and replaced by the current rails and were waiting to be removed.

not sure how true that is, but thats what i have been told.

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, H4 5600 said:

i asked an operator about that once, he said they were either waiting to be installed to replace one of the currently installed rails, or they had just been taken out and replaced by the current rails and were waiting to be removed.

not sure how true that is, but thats what i have been told.

That rail isn't mounted to anything so that would be the case.

[Xtrazsteve]

New for this board period. It has been discovered the 192 can be boarded at McCowan/Sheppard. 

[smallspy]

9 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

i asked an operator about that once, he said they were either waiting to be installed to replace one of the currently installed rails, or they had just been taken out and replaced by the current rails and were waiting to be removed.

not sure how true that is, but thats what i have been told.

That is true. Here's a bit more detail to it.

 

Track crews have a very, very limited window in which they can work. This means that often they have to stage things over 3 or more nights in order for a single night's work.

 

For a rail replacement, they will stage the rail and track hardware at the site a day or two (or more, depending on other work blocks) ahead of the actual scheduled replacement. This is because even dropping off the rail can take an hour, nevermind the amount of time that it takes to get there.

 

And the same goes for picking up the old rail after the work. Depending on what else needs to be done, it may be a couple of days before they can get back to do it.

 

Dan

[Archer]

On 10/5/2018 at 9:40 PM, lip said:

However, operating the T1s on the Y-U-S line is a trickier endeavor as that involves turning off ATC and running trains in manual mode.

Not quite true; they simply do not run on the parts that are ATC equipped. Hence why all the T1's turn back at Wilson right now when they are used up on the YUS; expect that to change as more and more of the YUS is converted to ATC.

[Cityflyer]

I read there are 170 LFS hybrids and 85 more to come after this batch.

Is this a political forced purchase consider TTC didn't like the hybrids and are early retiring them as these new ones are coming in? Or are these 2nd gen hybrids really that much better?

[dowlingm]

7 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

I read there are 170 LFS hybrids and 85 more to come after this batch.

Is this a political forced purchase consider TTC didn't like the hybrids and are early retiring them as these new ones are coming in? Or are these 2nd gen hybrids really that much better?

Perhaps Nova are promising better aftersales support than Orion provided?

[Xtrazsteve]

44 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

I read there are 170 LFS hybrids and 85 more to come after this batch.

Is this a political forced purchase consider TTC didn't like the hybrids and are early retiring them as these new ones are coming in? Or are these 2nd gen hybrids really that much better?

The ttc board called diesel buses dirty and wanted electric buses. They requested ttc stuff to submit a report on electric buses and alternatives to diesel. That's how they end up with the current orders.

[7969]

 Are the 79xx going to be retired shortly after the 74xx-7881s or do they have a bit more time left in them?  It seems like the TTC really want's to get rid of their OGs.

[Kobayashi]

Since I read about the Davenport Garage on Transit Toronto, can anyone (@Robert Lubinski, @smallspy and any transit historian here) explain the reason why did it close in detail on January 4, 1993? So far I complied the near-complete list of notable route assignments from Jan. 4 1993 IIRC.
 

Quote

WARNING: Incomplete list

2 ANGLESEY - Queensway
3 ANCASTER PARK - Wilson
4 ANNETTE - Lansdowne
5 AVENUE ROAD - Eglinton
6 BAY - Lansdowne
7 BATHURST - Wilson 
8 BROADVIEW - Danforth
9 BELLAMY - Birchmount
11 BAYVIEW - Eglinton
13 ROUGE HILL - Malvern
15 EVANS - Queensway
16 McCOWAN - Birchmount
17 BIRCHMOUNT - Birchmount
18 CALEDONIA - Wilson
19 CHURCH - Eglinton
21 BRIMLEY - Birchmount
22 COXWELL - Danforth
28 DAVISVILLE - Eglinton
30 LAMBTON - Lansdowne
31 GREENWOOD - Danforth
32 EGLINTON WEST - Eglinton/Queensway
33 FOREST HILL - Eglinton
34 EGLINTON EAST - Birchmount/Eglinton
36 FINCH WEST - Arrow Road
39 FINCH EAST - Malvern
40 JUNCTION - Lansdowne
41 KEELE - Lansdowne
42 CUMMER - Wilson
43 KENNEDY - Birchmount
47 LANSDOWNE - Lansdowne
51 LESLIE - Eglinton
52 LAWRENCE - Wilson
53 STEELES EAST - Malvern
54 LAWRENCE EAST - Birchmount/Eglinton
56 LEASIDE - Eglinton
57 MIDLAND - Birchmount
58 MALTON - Arrow Road
62 MORTIMER - Danforth
63 OSSINGTON - Lansdowne
65 PARLIAMENT - Danforth
72 PAPE - Danforth
74 MOUNT PLEASANT - Eglinton
75 SHERBOURNE - Danforth
77 SPADINA - Eglinton
80 QUEENSWAY - Queensway
82 ROSEDALE - Danforth
83 JONES - Danforth
85 SHEPPARD EAST - Malvern
86 SCARBOROUGH - Birchmount
87 COSBURN - Danforth
88 SOUTH LEASIDE - Eglinton
89 WESTON - Lansdowne
90 VAUGHAN - Eglinton
94 WELLESLEY - Danforth
95 YORK MILLS - Birchmount/Wilson
97 YONGE - Eglinton
99 CLAYSON - Arrow Road
100 FLEMINGDON PARK - Danforth
102 MARKHAM ROAD - Birchmount
103 NORTOWN EAST  - Eglinton
104 FAYWOOD - Wilson
105 WILSON HEIGHTS - Wilson
107 KEELE NORTH - Wilson
109 RANEE - Wilson
110 ISLINGTON SOUTH - Queensway
111 EAST MALL - Queensway
112 WEST MALL - Queensway
116 MORNINGSIDE - Birchmount
121 FRONT-ESPLANADE - Eglinton
123 SHORNCLIFFE - Queensway
125 DREWRY - Wilson
126 CHRISTIE - Eglinton
127 DAVENPORT - Eglinton
128 BRIMLEY NORTH - Malvern
129 McCOWAN NORTH - Malvern
130 MIDDLEFIELD - Malvern
131 NUGGET - Malvern
132 MILNER - Malvern
133 NEILSON - Malvern
134 TAPSCOTT - Malvern
160 BATHURST NORTH - Wilson
165 WESTON ROAD NORTH - Arrow Road
171 PROGRESS EAST - Malvern
316 OSSINGTON BLUE NIGHT - Lansdowne
318 WARDEN BLUE NIGHT - Birchmount

[Border City Transit]

On 9/18/2018 at 8:55 AM, blue.bird.fan said:

A friend and I were discussing the idea of a pilot-project BRT running along the Lake Shore and Marine Parade to a loop through the downtown. It would use repurposed MTD artics, as they don't seem to be used that well on the 41. This area needs better transit, and the 145 is proving too expensive. It would have transit priority signals and dedicated lanes.

Hmm, I can't speak to the equipment or operational details... but the concept of better transit in this area is very worth discussing.

I visited Humber Bay for the first time recently, and remain shocked at the weakness of transit service.

Granted, the 501 is a strong line, but is an over-capacity service with long-term reliability issues -- by way of slow, congested streets -- really the best option for this development?

The 66 is a decent little route, but after it branches, base service to Humber Bay is every 20 minutes. Though the route now has a very strong southern anchor, it's pretty much the same route it's always been. Service to Marine Parade is an afterthought at best.

The 145 strikes me as very half-a$$. Designed to fail. Here is a major high-density residential development... where many residents commute Downtown daily. And the best TTC can do is 5-6 trips a day at 30-minute headways? Very disappointing.

I know that TTC was dragged kicking and screaming into the 145... but why not set it up to succeed? If Brampton Transit can fill buses every 5-10 minutes on low-density suburban highways, how can't TTC manage to connect two extremely high-density areas in the city?

Fully aware that there is Zero Percent chance of this, but I can only wonder how a "fully developed" 145 would perform. All-day service... start with 10-15 minute headways to give it a shot, and evolve from there. Yes, that would be a departure from the normal "Premium Express" model, but not every situation fits neatly into existing service types. Maybe think of it as a "Humber Bay Rocket" rather than a premium express.

 

[Xtrazsteve]

Forget bus service. Either focus on getting better GO train service or build the waterfront west LRT with a tunnel east of the EX. I really don't see how extending the 509 to Humber Bay work either. It's just too slow for long distance. 

Transit is really weak at Humber Bay area. I'm surprise it's getting all the development and all governments are ignoring it.

 

[H4 5600]

1 hour ago, Border City Transit said:

The 66 is a decent little route, but after it branches, base service to Humber Bay is every 20 minutes. Though the route now has a very strong southern anchor, it's pretty much the same route it's always been. Service to Marine Parade is an afterthought at best.

66 north is at capacity at morning rush. Every 66 pulling in to old mill station at morning rush is completely full, with people standing in the rear and in front of the white line. Most of them are full by berry & prince edward as well. 

[blue.bird.fan]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Forget bus service. Either focus on getting better GO train service or build the waterfront west LRT with a tunnel east of the EX. I really don't see how extending the 509 to Humber Bay work either. It's just too slow for long distance. 

Transit is really weak at Humber Bay area. I'm surprise it's getting all the development and all governments are ignoring it.

 

There's a lot of articles in the local newspaper about this subject right now. I think that a frequent BRT that runs in a VIVA-style rapidway with transit priority signals would definitely help the area, at least in the short-term. This problem isn't just isolated to morning rush hour.

[7969]

Anyone know why Kipling loop has a short spur to the north of the loop?  Living in the New Toronto area, I've always wondered why this existed.  A former wye possibly?

[Xtrazsteve]

55 minutes ago, blue.bird.fan said:

There's a lot of articles in the local newspaper about this subject right now. I think that a frequent BRT that runs in a VIVA-style rapidway with transit priority signals would definitely help the area, at least in the short-term. This problem isn't just isolated to morning rush hour.

Where's this BRT going? To Long Branch or downtown. There's no space for a VIVA rapidway down Queen or the problem would be solved already. It also takes 3 years and half a billion to install those white elephant rapidway. 

If they extend the King pilot project all the way to Roncesvalles and operate the 508 again, that would provide a big relief between Humber Bay and downtown. It's the only cheap and effective solution right now. Buses aren't sustainable in the long run. King has a limitation too. Eventually they'll have to build a direct rail link to downtown.