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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V
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So because you've seen it before and no one got hurt means that it's alright?

I've seen people walk in front of traffic before. No one got hurt. Does that make that alright?

It's the same deal here. Whether the driver allows it or not, you shouldn't be putting the driver in that position in the first place. Perhaps they didn't say anything out of fear that booting someone off the bus for standing beyond the line would escalate into an angry phone call to customer service or a further delay?

Futhermore, it's illegal per the Highway Traffic Act. So perhaps you're willing to risk your own safety and that of every other occupant of the vehicle, and those in the vehicles around the bus, for a 20 minute convenience. Fine. Would you risk getting a ticket, a fine, and/or the driver losing their job for that 20 minute convenience?

Maybe you would, in which case have fun. Just don't be gloating about it on a public forum.

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5 hours ago, ProGamer21 said:

What are the chances of the bus crashing tho? It’s not very likely

Not going to tell you what to do, I’m not your mommy. But be aware that your actions could have bad consequences for you.

5 hours ago, ProGamer21 said:

What are the chances of the bus crashing tho? It’s not very likely

Given the collective mileage the fleet racks up, the odds are much, much greater than the public would think.

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6 hours ago, ProGamer21 said:

What are the chances of the bus crashing tho? It’s not very likely

 

56 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

Given the collective mileage the fleet racks up, the odds are much, much greater than the public would think.

Though I'd say its more an issue of who will end up crashing into the bus, not the other way around. Bus drivers are trained. Large majority of civilians are not. 

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Image result for ttc bus crash

Image result for miway bus crash

Feel good about standing up there now? 

2 hours ago, Kit Kat said:

He'll probably call Diamond & Diamond.

beat me to it lmao

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1 hour ago, Doppelkupplung said:

 

Though I'd say its more an issue of who will end up crashing into the bus, not the other way around. Bus drivers are trained. Large majority of civilians are not. 

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Image result for miway bus crash

Feel good about standing up there now? 

beat me to it lmao

I got into a conversation with a transit driver about standing in front of the line before, and he referred to the area where the folded in ramp sits as the "Death Zone." The picture of the MiWay bus illustrates this pretty perfectly - there's not a lot of structe in that area to protect you in a collision.

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55 minutes ago, Flalex72 said:

I got into a conversation with a transit driver about standing in front of the line before, and he referred to the area where the folded in ramp sits as the "Death Zone." The picture of the MiWay bus illustrates this pretty perfectly - there's not a lot of structe in that area to protect you in a collision.

Oh dear it was pretty dangerous to stand at the door. People do it all the time, and the person I was with really wanted to get on that bus. Maybe the ttc should tell drivers to not let passengers stand behind the white line AT ALL

2 hours ago, Doppelkupplung said:

 

Though I'd say its more an issue of who will end up crashing into the bus, not the other way around. Bus drivers are trained. Large majority of civilians are not. 

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Image result for ttc bus crash

Feel good about standing up there now? 

 

Nope not really. Was late and wanted to get home. I knew it was pretty dangerous on board. I will think about it next time standing behind the white line. Something could’ve gone horribly wrong there. Also it was the 92 so it was a pretty short route. I tried to talk the person I was with out of it to go on the 64 that would be quieter but he really wanted to get on that bus. My apologies.

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14 hours ago, nfitz said:

If the driver isn't raising any safety issues, then I'm not sure why passengers should be expected to take action.

 

I don't think anyone is indicating that anyone ignored the driver's instructions.

 

If there's an issue, it's the failure of the driver to operate the vehicle in a safer manner.

 

But really - I think we've all seen vehicles operating crush loaded, with people standing on the steps even!

People don't listen when they are told they can't stay ahead of the line. The only thing an operator can do is stay at a bus stop with the door open, and inform people about the rules, inform the passengers that the bus is not moving until nobody is ahead of the line. This makes you no friends, and gets you called in the office sometimes when a passenger lies about what was said, sometimes throwing in a claim the operator was racist and it was because of their color that they were refused on the bus.

 

Then you get the ones that feel the need to take out their frustration on the operator or the bus as they leave. Spitting on the shield, punching the window, kicking the door, standing in front of the bus and not allowing it to drive off, and so on. Even when the bus is empty, you get the odd person who wants to exit by the front doors, and feels like they need to be standing right in front of the door as the bus is pulling in to the stop.

 

Of course, if the operator says anything the passengers claim it isn't good customer service, that the operator is surly/racist/grumpy/sexist/overpaid/uneducated/...

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5 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

another spot i would avoid is the seats behind the driver on the Nova Bus.  You are going to bang your head if there is a severe hard braking ever occur

Yea. That’s why I rarely seat there. Another bad seat is the one on the first row in the high floor section on all buses. You can bang your head on the pole.

 

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41 minutes ago, ProGamer21 said:

Yea. That’s why I rarely seat there. Another bad seat is the one on the first row in the high floor section on all buses. You can bang your head on the pole.

 

Or the rear seat, especially the high one on the old orions that are being phased out. I once saw a small child (kids love those seats) that flew forward and down the stairs to the low floor section during hard braking. Thankfully the young girl just skidded on her butt and wasn't injured.

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Or the rear seat, especially the high one on the old orions that are being phased out. I once saw a small child (kids love those seats) that flew forward and down the stairs to the low floor section during hard braking. Thankfully the young girl just skidded on her butt and wasn't injured.

I like that seat. When I was younger I use to love seating in that seat and I still do.

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

I seen someone got really mad and started yelling at that the operator for not lowering the bus for a baby stroller.

It is not mandatory for drivers to kneel the bis for strollers.  However, if passengers requested the kneeling, it has to be done.  People with strollers or anybody can request the ramp to deploy.  The drivers will not question the request as the driver doesnt kno what hidden disabilities the passenger have.

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Funny thing is, it doesnt even take the bus being full for people to stand in front of the white line. Just this morning I experienced a fellow passenger who literally decided to stand right in front of the front doors while the bus was still traveling so he could prepare to exit the bus. The bus was still literally 300 metres away and this guy was just standing in front of the doors as if he was waiting for the doors to open while the bus was travelling @ 50km/h so he can jump out.

The driver told the genius to get back until she reached the bus stop.

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4 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

It is not mandatory for drivers to kneel the bis for strollers.  However, if passengers requested the kneeling, it has to be done.  People with strollers or anybody can request the ramp to deploy.  The drivers will not question the request as the driver doesnt kno what hidden disabilities the passenger have.

It's sad that sometimes people expect the operator to lower it without asking. Too many rude people in this city.

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

It's sad that sometimes people expect the operator to lower it without asking. Too many rude people in this city.

Sometimes passengers yell at you for kneeling the bus.  Reason: under estimating their abilities.  From now on, I will only lower the bus right in the middle.

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22 hours ago, ProGamer21 said:

Oh dear it was pretty dangerous to stand at the door. People do it all the time, and the person I was with really wanted to get on that bus. Maybe the ttc should tell drivers to not let passengers stand behind the white line AT ALL

Nope not really. Was late and wanted to get home. I knew it was pretty dangerous on board. I will think about it next time standing behind the white line. Something could’ve gone horribly wrong there. Also it was the 92 so it was a pretty short route. I tried to talk the person I was with out of it to go on the 64 that would be quieter but he really wanted to get on that bus. My apologies.

You followed the driver's directions (or lack of them). You shouldn't apologize for this.

 

If there's a real safety issue, take a photo of the driver, and report him and the bus number to customer service, so that appropriate action is taken.

 

However as we ALL know that this happens every day, I really don't know why there's a reaction by some, to blame the customer, when the failure is clearly 100% by TTC employees!

 

People don't listen when they are told they can't stay ahead of the line. The only thing an operator can do is stay at a bus stop with the door open, and inform people about the rules, inform the passengers that the bus is not moving until nobody is ahead of the line.

He can simply ask politely.

 

I'm not sure I've ever seen an operator ask for people to get behind the white line (though the ones that get snarky because half a foot is over the line, but no leg, really need to get a reality check).

 

At the same time, with customers already in front of the white line, I've seen some operators open the front door, and invite even MORE people on.

 

With inconsistent and conflicting direction from operators, it's not the customer's fault!

 

Not sure what this has to do with people attacking operators. I've never seen this after a white line request.

 

And good grief - we are talking about the 92 Woodbine here. It's about a 3-minute ride, not particularly fast, and hardly a route where the passengers make trouble!

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31 minutes ago, nfitz said:

You followed the driver's directions (or lack of them). You shouldn't apologize for this.

 

If there's a real safety issue, take a photo of the driver, and report him and the bus number to customer service, so that appropriate action is taken.

 

However as we ALL know that this happens every day, I really don't know why there's a reaction by some, to blame the customer, when the failure is clearly 100% by TTC employees!

 

He can simply ask politely.

 

I'm not sure I've ever seen an operator ask for people to get behind the white line (though the ones that get snarky because half a foot is over the line, but no leg, really need to get a reality check).

 

At the same time, with customers already in front of the white line, I've seen some operators open the front door, and invite even MORE people on.

 

With inconsistent and conflicting direction from operators, it's not the customer's fault!

 

Not sure what this has to do with people attacking operators. I've never seen this after a white line request.

 

And good grief - we are talking about the 92 Woodbine here. It's about a 3-minute ride, not particularly fast, and hardly a route where the passengers make trouble!

The driver was forcing people on the bus. I don't remeber what he looked like at all, or the bus number

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

If there's a real safety issue, take a photo of the driver, and report him and the bus number to customer service, so that appropriate action is taken.

Taking a photo is not needed. In some cases, depending on how the image or video of the employee was taken, it could be considered harassment.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

However as we ALL know that this happens every day, I really don't know why there's a reaction by some, to blame the customer, when the failure is clearly 100% by TTC employees!

How is that? Where is the failure here? That people don't listen? That people make a huge fuss if they don't get their way 100% of the time? That people don't want to pay for a service they use? That people resort to filming operators and slandering them on youtube if they don't like being told they are wrong about something?

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

He can simply ask politely.

LOL. I wish that would work. People stare at you with a blank stare when you ask politely, like you are talking martian to them.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I'm not sure I've ever seen an operator ask for people to get behind the white line (though the ones that get snarky because half a foot is over the line, but no leg, really need to get a reality check).

 

At the same time, with customers already in front of the white line, I've seen some operators open the front door, and invite even MORE people on.

 

With inconsistent and conflicting direction from operators, it's not the customer's fault!

Yes, it's absolutely okay to do whatever you want whenever you want just as long as nobody tells you otherwise. Block the doors, smoke in the bus bays, sneak in through the back doors, bring your bike on the subways during rush hour, ... Jane is doing it, so it must be okay for me to do it too, right?

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Not sure what this has to do with people attacking operators. I've never seen this after a white line request.

I have.

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Let's remember this incident: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/she-just-kept-walking-video-shows-frustrated-commuter-blocking-toronto-bus-1.3676996

Quote

Eventually, two TTC buses arrived to pick up the waiting passengers. The first bus filled up immediately and a group of passengers standing at the front of the vehicle were asked to exit because the driver couldn’t see the door, Wesley told CTVNews.ca in an interview on Tuesday morning.

 

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9 hours ago, Turtle said:

Taking a photo is not needed. In some cases, depending on how the image or video of the employee was taken, it could be considered harassment.

Simply talking to someone could be considered harassment. Personally, I always ask permission first - or take photos from the sidewalk. Hardly a regular occurrence though. Happens maybe once a year.

 

9 hours ago, Turtle said:

How is that? Where is the failure here? That people don't listen? That people make a huge fuss if they don't get their way 100% of the time? That people don't want to pay for a service they use?

The discussion was about letting people onto a bus over capacity.

 

9 hours ago, Turtle said:

LOL. I wish that would work. People stare at you with a blank stare when you ask politely, like you are talking martian to them.

That's not my experience. Most are normal. At the same time, I've had the odd bus driver (it seems to be the bus drivers, not the streetcar drivers that are the worst - despite that I take more streetcars than buses), that try and pretend you aren't asking them a question - and ignore everything. It's a two-way street.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, nfitz said:

The discussion was about letting people onto a bus over capacity

Since this is the one that you seem to have the most problem with...bus is at or over capacity rolling down the street, passenger near the front rings the bell. Operator stops at stop and has to open the front doors to let the passenger off, since they will go to the easiest exit. People at the stop see the front doors open and rush the bus. You claim this is the operator letting more people on to a over capacity bus? How would you suggest the operator handle this?

 

Perhaps the operator can skip the stop and stop away from the stop to try to prevent people trying to jam on a bus that is already over capacity. Nope, that isn't procedure, it will get you in trouble with the boss.

Perhaps the operator can politely ask people ahead of the line to move back. Sure, if you like wasting 5 minutes at each stop, and getting verbal abuse from passengers (understandable) that are jammed like sardines on a stuffy bus.

Perhaps the operator can ignore the rules and try to get as many people as possible to their destination and hope nothing bad happens.

 

There is no such thing as "letting people onto a bus". You have to stop at a stop if people are waiting, and what they want the operator to do is politely explain that the waiting passengers can't board that bus because it already is at capacity. Good luck, people don't listen. They have to get to work. They have to pick up their kids. They don't care about anybody else, they need to get on that bus. As soon as you put that maxi on and explain that anybody ahead of the line has to leave...good luck to you.

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10 hours ago, Turtle said:

Since this is the one that you seem to have the most problem with...bus is at or over capacity rolling down the street, passenger near the front rings the bell. Operator stops at stop and has to open the front doors to let the passenger off, since they will go to the easiest exit. People at the stop see the front doors open and rush the bus. You claim this is the operator letting more people on to a over capacity bus? How would you suggest the operator handle this?

? We've all seen what happens here. Operator shouts out that bus is full. Everyone behind the line. Doesn't move until everyone is behind the line, as suddenly, magically, everyone is able to compress more. Once in a while, someone gets off. You act like this isn't an unusual event.

 

But at the same time, I've also seen, with a vehicle already with people in front of the whilte line. A bus sitting at a light - with no one actually trying to get off - or more likely, already opened and closed the doors already. Then open (or re-open) the doors, to let one more person on.

 

You say "There is no such thing as "letting people onto a bus" ".  How is that not letting people onto a bus?

 

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